Lockdowns Did Not Work

[Dr Grump]

Moral fortitude costs money...usually other people’s.

It costs nothing.

 

[Dr Grump]

Right? Everything comes back to Trump.

Me: It is raining outside.
Them: Trump is an asshole who doesn't care about the environment...

Me: Yeah....get some help.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility.
Giving exaggerated, hyperbolic examples doesn't take away from the fact that Trump is an incompetent idiot.

You need a more apt comparison.

Thing is George Bush senior was an okay president at best, but nothing like this vitriol was aimed at him compared to Trump. Why is that? Maybe, just maybe, Bush snr wasn't everybody's cup of tea, but he had peoples' respect. Ditto Ronnie Raygun. Thought he was a shit president. But I respected his opinion and what he was trying to do. Nobody on the other side respects Trump. NOBODY...

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Right? Everything comes back to Trump.

Me: It is raining outside.
Them: Trump is an asshole who doesn't care about the environment...

Me: Yeah....get some help.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility.
Giving exaggerated, hyperbolic examples doesn't take away from the fact that Trump is an incompetent idiot.

You need a more apt comparison.

Thing is George Bush senior was an okay president at best, but nothing like this vitriol was aimed at him compared to Trump. Why is that? Maybe, just maybe, Bush snr wasn't everybody's cup of tea, but he had peoples' respect. Ditto Ronnie Raygun. Thought he was a shit president. But I respected his opinion and what he was trying to do. Nobody on the other side respects Trump. NOBODY...

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

 

[Wapasha]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

I don't get the tattoo parlor notion, I mean, that seems about as risky as can be. But I think businesses should be given the chance to show how they can operate while observing mitigation practices. Can a tattoo artist wear PPE sufficient enough to prevent infection? I don't know.

 

[Billy_Bob]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

We might see some reduction in new cases at 25% but to stop the spread of the virus we will need an immunity of a majority of the population. However, most of what we are calling information is nothing educated guesses. We don't know how long immunity lasts. It could be as short as a few months or it could be a lifetime. We don't know what percent of the population being immune we stop the virus. We don't know of any effective treatment for Covid 19; that is unless you consider the Trump treatment, injecting yourself with disinfectants.

Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections. When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer. We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable. This is the cure being worse than the virus.

 

[Billy_Bob]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

He’s saying you have an equal chance in a locked down state as with a free state

You will get this virus wherever you are. The whole point of locking down was to slow how fast it spread so that our hospitals were not overwhelmed with a massive influx. IT WORKED. Once we hit about 25% of the populace that has had and recovered from this virus we can slowly open up until it reaches around 40-50%. At that point you can open it totally up and run. The lock down served it purpose, now we have to slowly return to normal as people continue to get and recover from this virus.

Exactly.

Sheltering in home was not supposed to prevent you from ever getting the virus, was not supposed to do anything to control the virus, it was simply and only to reduce the initial impact we were going to have on hospitals and health care workers so that they were not overwhelmed.

Now we begin Phase 2, which is observing mitigation practices and get on with our lives.

Obviously if you are in the age group suseptible to this virus, and or you have these comorbidities, then you're going to have to be extra careful.

But the average American can observe mitigation practices and go about their lives until we find a vaccine.

Either we do this, or we destroy our nation from within.

SOOO .. Does "Getting on with our lives" mean going to salons, tattoo & massage parlors & restaurants at present?
Like SERIOUS?
Even your Donald told his puppet Govs in Texas, Florida and South Dakota NOT to do that!
You suffer from Corona idiocy

I don't get the tattoo parlor notion, I mean, that seems about as risky as can be. But I think businesses should be given the chance to show how they can operate while observing mitigation practices. Can a tattoo artist wear PPE sufficient enough to prevent infection? I don't know.

The answer is yes. IF they do as most doctors offices do they can operate safely.

 

[Wapasha]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

It's all speculation at this point, since we do not have any clinical trials completed yet. We don't know if antibodies means your immune, we don't even know if we can create a working vaccine.

 

[Billy_Bob]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

It's all speculation at this point, since we do not have any clinical trials completed yet. We don't know if antibodies means your immune, we don't even know if we can create a working vaccine.

We still dont have a working vaccine for HIV, SARS, or MERS... The jury on this one is still out. For someone like me, with CHF, that pretty much gives me reason to be as healthy as I can be.

 

[Rambunctious]

If you are looking for a new business venture look into rapid disinfecting...the amusement parks and theaters and sporting venues will need those services...even grocery store carts and interior surfaces....

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

That should be my choice, not the choice of some scientists who seem to be more or less guessing.


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

It's all speculation at this point, since we do not have any clinical trials completed yet. We don't know if antibodies means your immune, we don't even know if we can create a working vaccine.

We don’t seem to have much consensus on anything yet we shut the country down.

 

[rich stacy]

Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections. When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer. We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable. This is the cure being worse than the virus.

The problem of herd immunity protecting the masses, while isolating the most susceptible overlooks that there is no way to completely isolate them, while there could be raging asymptomatic infections all around them.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections. When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer. We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable. This is the cure being worse than the virus.

The problem of herd immunity protecting the masses, while isolating the most susceptible overlooks that there is no way to completely isolate them, while there could be raging asymptomatic infections all around them.

That is correct. But if a vaccine is not forthcoming or possible that will be the only route left.

 

[rich stacy]

That is correct. But if a vaccine is not forthcoming or possible that will be the only route left.

There are other solutions, but none of them would be very popular. It would start with revamping restaurants, cutting their capacity by 1/2 to 2/3rds. Changing movie theater seating by the same ratios. Eliminate all large events, like parades, sports games with people in the stadiums. concerts. Every business model based on "pack in as many people as possible" would be completely overturned, like planes trains and buses, running at 1/3rd or even 1/10th their previous capacity.
This would of course require the per-seat price to compensate, so the idea of a flight to florida for $79 one way would become a $1,000 round trip.

 

[Dr Grump]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Actually Anything over 50% of the populace will result in no sustained wave of infections. When you look at the data it shows that roughly 98% of the populace will not be severely affected. Now you take the route of infections and reduce them by 25% and a sustained wave becomes highly unlikely. IF we could adequately isolate and protect those who are susceptible we could go back to full blown open and there would not be a problem we could not handle.

For those of us who are susceptible to death from this virus only the manufacture of a vaccine is the answer. We can not allow our system to fail and have the young offing themselves because they cant feed their families let alone the elderly is unacceptable. This is the cure being worse than the virus.

The problem of herd immunity protecting the masses, while isolating the most susceptible overlooks that there is no way to completely isolate them, while there could be raging asymptomatic infections all around them.

That is correct. But if a vaccine is not forthcoming or possible that will be the only route left.

Vaccine isn’t coming. We need to man up

 

[jc456]

Well, naturally, the thread title is wrong. But it seems we are not yet seeing good evidence that the lockdowns have affected the curve. This is an interesting topic that is going to require a lot more data and analysis (instead of apples to oranges comparisons between states so early on).

It didn’t work, cause it wasn’t meant to. It’s a kingdom grab

 

[Dr Grump]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.

Er my initial post was specifically relating to Bush Snr not Jnr. Go back and check it out..

I said Bush Jnr was second worst, so we are pretty close on that.

Absolutely I hate Trump's character. I've said many times on this board I hated Trump long before he became pres and was on the Apprentice.

Tell me, what exactly are his politics other than 'money good, everyone else can get fucked'.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.

Er my initial post was specifically relating to Bush Snr not Jnr. Go back and check it out..

I said Bush Jnr was second worst, so we are pretty close on that.

Absolutely I hate Trump's character. I've said many times on this board I hated Trump long before he became pres and was on the Apprentice.

Tell me, what exactly are his politics other than 'money good, everyone else can get fucked'.

I did an entire post on it. He has helped me tremendously with my business. I like his immigration policies. His border security rhetoric and he pisses off the PC Leftists who are ruining this country. You don’t see it because you don’t live here.

 

[playtime]

Bush was the worst president of all time. You really need to learn history. I respect Trump as did 62mil or so other people. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re not even an American.

Trump is easily the worst president of all time. Bush jnr comes in second. There are at last four or five others ahead of Bush snr.

I never said you didn't respect Trump, and said that nobody on the other side didn't. That aside, I disagree. I think a vast swathe of that 62 million didn't respect him. They just hated Hillary more.

So what if I'm not American. I have an opinion. Using that gauge, I expect you won't be commenting on any thread about any other country in the world except the US. Glad to know.

Because GW put us in Iraq, cost us $8trn with his stupid endless wars and we had the Great Recession because of him. If you believe Trump is worse you’re just being irrational. Trump haters have weak constitutions. They don’t hate his policies they hate his character. Cry me a river. I am so sick of our country becoming soft. The PC culture is ruining the US.

Er my initial post was specifically relating to Bush Snr not Jnr. Go back and check it out..

I said Bush Jnr was second worst, so we are pretty close on that.

Absolutely I hate Trump's character. I've said many times on this board I hated Trump long before he became pres and was on the Apprentice.

Tell me, what exactly are his politics other than 'money good, everyone else can get fucked'.

donny has 40+ years of being a vile creature worthy of hating.