Looming Republican Government Shutdown having Adverse effect on the Market.

[zeke]

It's called democracy.

Shutting down the government, just because they didn't get their way on 1 law is tyrannical.

Tyranny by the majority is tyranny nevertheless.

And we are supposed to have a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC not a democracy.

My rights should NOT be subject to majority rule.

.

Where does it say in the COTUS, that you have the right to medical care, even if you do not have the ability to pay for this expensive care.

In other words, if the people of this nation were required to die because they couldn't pay for medical care, I would agree with you. Don't force people to buy insurance.

But we don't do that. Do we? Everybody get medical care even when they can't pay for it.
But the medical care industry isn't a non profit business are they? So they pass the costs of the "free medical care" on to those like me who pay for medical insurance.

So how's it fair I absorb higher medical care costs just so someone else doesn't have to pay a health care premium?

 

[Richard-H]

It's simple:

Liberals have been trying to get a national health care program for over a hundred years.

Conservatives have been stopping a national health care program for over a hundred years.

Now that a national health care program has been enacted, conservatives are doing everything in their power to stop it.

Liberals are digging in their heels and are determined to not let the conservatives stop it.

Realpolitik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now the government will be shutdown AND the conservatives will threaten to not raise the debt limit - they may actually do it this time.

So, what's gonna happen?

The shutdown is gonna piss a lot of people off - and they're gonna blame the GOP. What's more is the stock market is gonna go down and the economy is gonna take a hit.

Then, the debt ceiling debate (and the actual refusal to raise the debt ceiling) is gonna cause absolute economic chaos. The markets are gonna crash like it was 2007.

So, who's gonna blink?

Seems to me that the GOP has the larger number of supporters that will lose BIG TIME when the markets crash.

How long will major GOP supporters let the GOP continue this stand off when they see their net worth drop like a rock?

Meanwhile, the Dems have the larger number of supporters with less to lose, and everything to gain from Obamacare.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

I predict that the GOP's gonna blink!

 

[auditor0007]

Then obama should not veto the proposed budget. Then there will be no shutdown. Reid should pass it and obama should sign it.

Don't be ridiculous.

Why should he cave?

The Affordable Care Act was passed by a democratically elected Congress, signed by a democratically elected president, and upheld by the Supreme Court.

U.S. voters had a chance to get rid of it in an election. Instead they voted to keep it because the democrats won and the republicans lost.

It's called democracy.

Shutting down the government, just because they didn't get their way on 1 law is tyrannical.

So let me see if I understand how this works...

If your side controls the House, Senate and the Oval Office and push through a bill that the American people didn't really want...rushing it through before the representatives that the voters just elected could stop it...then that bill is UNTOUCHABLE? Because you managed to get it through before the American people could stop you...they have no recourse now but to live with it?

Let's be honest about this situation...the progressive wing of the Democratic Party pushed for ObamaCare. It's not a well written piece of legislation. If it's allowed to stand without major changes it's going to be a train wreck. That's something that many Democrats have already admitted. So where is the compromise from the Obama Administration on this law? What have they compromised on EVER? They have taken the same tact as you...that ObamaCare is established...therefore it is written in stone! Written in stone even though enormous parts of it simply won't work.

Time for some critical thinking. You just stated that we need compromise and that Obamacare needs some changes because it just won't work as written, at least that's what I got out of it. But then you go on to state that Democrats will not compromise on anything when it comes to Obamacare, yet as we have seen there is and has been absolutely zero attempt made by Republicans to offer any positive changes to Obamacare or to even come up with a realistic alternate plan. The Republicans only offer of compromise is defund it, kill it, repeal it, do anything to stop it from happening.

That my friend, is not compromise. It's my way or the highway. That is what we are getting from Republicans. When Republicans start offering up ideas on changes that can be made to make Obamacare better and more workable, then you can talk about compromise. Your idea of compromise is a joke, and no, it's not Democrats who are averse to it; it is strictly the Republicans.

 

[Toro]

That's it 150 points.....
Like the market never lost 150 points before...
It's only happened like a billion times.

And we are not even at the point of the debt ceiling issue yet...

In July 2011, the market started to sell off into the debt ceiling debacle. But since most market participants didn't think the US Congress was batshit insane, it was a small decline. Then, when it became apparent that, indeed, the US Congress may be batshit insane, stock markets fell 15% to 20% in less than two weeks.

Since that time, the market has become more comfortable with these showdowns, i.e. The Sequester, believing that even though both sides might play chicken, in the end, they'll get a deal done. Thus, if we shut the government down and don't raise the debt ceiling, the market is likely to have a delayed reaction and decline moderately as investors and traders await a deal to finally happen.

However, if the market thinks a deal really won't happen, raising the specter of a default, we would likely experience a similar sharp decline like we did in 2011, or perhaps more, a few days to a few weeks after we hit the debt ceiling. Why? Because US Treasury securities are the lynchpin of the global financial system. They are viewed as the safest investments in the world, and are used as collateral in repurchase agreements used to finance inventories of leveraged securities at banks. If the value of the collateral declines sharply suddenly, collateral values will fall, which would likely lead to forced and vicious selling, creating a spiral which induces more selling that likely wouldn't stop until intervention from the Fed.

 

[TooTall]

Which are ALL the result of conservative policies.

Can you explain in detail? Or are you talking out of your backside as you usually do?

I'll start slowly because I realize you are sort of "special".

Reagan broke the Air Traffic Controller Union. That was basically a first for a president and started the downward slide on Union Membership.

Curiously enough, it also was the start of wage stagnation.

Why did he do that?

PATCO's strike, as it turned out, was illegal. Under a provision of the 1947 Taft-Hartley Act, Reagan ordered the controllers back to work, giving them a 48-hour deadline. Some of the controllers returned to work, but the majority did not. Reagan echoed the words of Calvin Coolidge when he told Lewis, “There is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anywhere, at any time.”

 

[Contumacious]

[

The Tea party politicians are desperate though. They have no reason to even BE in office IF they can't shut down Obamacare. Talk about a bunch of people in Washington with no legislative experience. And I do believe a lot of Tea party folks will be looking for work after 2014. I mean really, what good are they?

I understand.

who the fuck are they to deprive you of Obama Hellcare?

Call them and remind them that the government and the taxpayers owe you a living.

.

 

[Contumacious]

So how's it fair I absorb higher medical care costs just so someone else doesn't have to pay a health care premium?

It isn't fair.

But healthcare has been regulated by the states since the 1840's.

The federal government compounded the problem by enacting medicaid and medicare.

Goddamned politicians could had abolished all regulations and allow the free market to prevail. But the fuckers wouldn't do that. From their perspective socialism and fascism are the ONLY answers,

.

.

 

[Papageorgio]

Then obama should not veto the proposed budget. Then there will be no shutdown. Reid should pass it and obama should sign it.

Don't be ridiculous.

Why should he cave?

The Affordable Care Act was passed by a democratically elected Congress, signed by a democratically elected president, and upheld by the Supreme Court.

U.S. voters had a chance to get rid of it in an election. Instead they voted to keep it because the democrats won and the republicans lost.

It's called democracy.

Shutting down the government, just because they didn't get their way on 1 law is tyrannical.

I thought we were a Republic.

 

[Papageorgio]

So what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

 

[Camp]

So what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

Veterans with PTSD who depend on making contact with councelors when they are having "episodes" will dial their emergency number and get a recording telling them that counceling is not available.

 

[Contumacious]

So what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

Nothing will happen to the producers and taxpayers given the fact that 99.9% of what the federal government does is UNconstitutional.

.

 

[Papageorgio]

Don't be ridiculous.

Why should he cave?

The Affordable Care Act was passed by a democratically elected Congress, signed by a democratically elected president, and upheld by the Supreme Court.

U.S. voters had a chance to get rid of it in an election. Instead they voted to keep it because the democrats won and the republicans lost.

It's called democracy.

Shutting down the government, just because they didn't get their way on 1 law is tyrannical.

So let me see if I understand how this works...

If your side controls the House, Senate and the Oval Office and push through a bill that the American people didn't really want...rushing it through before the representatives that the voters just elected could stop it...then that bill is UNTOUCHABLE? Because you managed to get it through before the American people could stop you...they have no recourse now but to live with it?

Let's be honest about this situation...the progressive wing of the Democratic Party pushed for ObamaCare. It's not a well written piece of legislation. If it's allowed to stand without major changes it's going to be a train wreck. That's something that many Democrats have already admitted. So where is the compromise from the Obama Administration on this law? What have they compromised on EVER? They have taken the same tact as you...that ObamaCare is established...therefore it is written in stone! Written in stone even though enormous parts of it simply won't work.

Time for some critical thinking. You just stated that we need compromise and that Obamacare needs some changes because it just won't work as written, at least that's what I got out of it. But then you go on to state that Democrats will not compromise on anything when it comes to Obamacare, yet as we have seen there is and has been absolutely zero attempt made by Republicans to offer any positive changes to Obamacare or to even come up with a realistic alternate plan. The Republicans only offer of compromise is defund it, kill it, repeal it, do anything to stop it from happening.

That my friend, is not compromise. It's my way or the highway. That is what we are getting from Republicans. When Republicans start offering up ideas on changes that can be made to make Obamacare better and more workable, then you can talk about compromise. Your idea of compromise is a joke, and no, it's not Democrats who are averse to it; it is strictly the Republicans.

They are asking for it not to be implemented for a year. I think that is reasonable. considering the fact that businesses and unions are exempt for a year also. Why are we burdening our middle class with the requirement and not government or business?

 

[Papageorgio]

So what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

Veterans with PTSD who depend on making contact with councelors when they are having "episodes" will dial their emergency number and get a recording telling them that counceling is not available.

Do you have link to that?

 

[thereisnospoon]

For the third time in US history, Conservative Republicans are engaging in a petulant power play against a Liberal Democratic President.

For the first time in American History, the Conservative Republicans are using the Debt Ceiling as a means to defund a law they don't like.

Markets are reeling..

Breaking News

U.S. stocks sink at the open as federal shutdown looms. Dow sheds 150 points. Nasdaq slides 1%. S&P 500 falls 0.9%.
CNNMoney - Business, financial and personal finance news

The democrats will not negotiate.
This is a democrat shut down. Period.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The votes are in the House that would pass the bill that would prevent a shut down if it was presented as an up or down vote on a clean bill. It would pass with Republican votes. The speaker doesn't have the balls to confront the extreme element in his party. He is afraid he will loose his job as Speaker. Being Speaker is more important to him than the good of the country. He is a selfish coward. If he allows the vote on a clean bill it will pass, but he may loose his job as Speaker. Whats complicated about that?

If the Senate voted for the House bill and the president signed it it would also avert a shut down. Obviously the Dems want a shut down.
Amd they do. Obama has set it up, declaring he wont negotiate at the outset. Why? Because he's thinking this is 1995 all over again. But it isn't. The economy is shit due to his policies. And people are fed up with big government and especially with ACA, which was passed before anyone understood what it did.

Actually, the economy is doing pretty good...a lot better than when Obama took office.

You can't explain how any of Obama's policies have hurt the economy.

I do not refer to less than 2% annualized GDP growth since Jan 2009 "better"...In fact, it's pitiful.

 

[TooTall]

For the third time in US history, Conservative Republicans are engaging in a petulant power play against a Liberal Democratic President.

For the first time in American History, the Conservative Republicans are using the Debt Ceiling as a means to defund a law they don't like.

Markets are reeling..

Breaking News

U.S. stocks sink at the open as federal shutdown looms. Dow sheds 150 points. Nasdaq slides 1%. S&P 500 falls 0.9%.
CNNMoney - Business, financial and personal finance news

I'm not worried. The market undergoes corrections all the time.

When shutdowns are prolonged and federal employees are out of work for weeks, the effect on the market is usually more negative. Under the Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter administrations, when the government was shut down for 10 days or more, the average decline for the stock market was more than 3 percent during closures.

But in the last major pair of shutdowns, from November 1995 to January 1996, the stock market actually rose.

President Bill Clinton and the Republican House leader Newt Gingrich failed to agree on a plan to reduce the nation's budget deficit as well as cuts to Medicare premiums. As a result, the government shut twice in three months. First, it closed for five days between Nov. 13, 1995 and Nov. 19, 1995. Then a second shutdown lasted 21 days, from Dec. 15, 1995 to Jan. 6, 1996.

The S&P 500 rose 4 percent between Nov. 13 and Jan. 6, suggesting that investors were focused elsewhere. The stock market had just started its five-year, technology-fueled bull run, during which the S&P 500 more than doubled.

 

[Geaux4it]

Who cares. So Obama is bringing down the stock market.

Why is that surprising?

-Geaux

 

[TooTall]

so what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

veterans with ptsd who depend on making contact with councelors when they are having "episodes" will dial their emergency number and get a recording telling them that counceling is not available.

bs!

excerpted from defcon hill: health care and other benefits for veterans from the department of veterans affairs would be largely protected if the government shuts down on tuesday because of the way the benefits are funded by congress.
most va workers will not be furloughed in a shutdown. According to a planning document released friday, only 14,200 of the va’s 332,000 employees are subject to furlough.

 

[Geaux4it]

So what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

Veterans with PTSD who depend on making contact with councelors when they are having "episodes" will dial their emergency number and get a recording telling them that counceling is not available.

 

[Papageorgio]

so what adverse things are going to happen if they shutdown the government?

veterans with ptsd who depend on making contact with councelors when they are having "episodes" will dial their emergency number and get a recording telling them that counceling is not available.

bs!

excerpted from defcon hill: health care and other benefits for veterans from the department of veterans affairs would be largely protected if the government shuts down on tuesday because of the way the benefits are funded by congress.
most va workers will not be furloughed in a shutdown. According to a planning document released friday, only 14,200 of the va’s 332,000 employees are subject to furlough.

So we caught camp in another lie.

So I'll ask again, what are the adverse effects of a government shutdown?

Can we at least try to be honest.