Zone1 Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

[Red Front]

Dude you have written an entire treatise here on why my faith is wrong and Jesus will throw me into Hell.

Did you MEAN to jet right to "judgey Christian" when you took up the faith? Because that's not it.

What is it? Not obeying your supposed savior and lord? Doing whatever you want to do and pretending you're still a disciple of Jesus? The churches are closing thanks to people like you.

 

[SweetSue92]

What is it? Not obeying your supposed savior and lord? Doing whatever you want to do and pretending you're still a disciple of Jesus? The churches are closing thanks to people like you.

You do not have a single clue what I do or do not do.

It's very sad that there's a real Savior with power to save, and you have been tricked into holding Him up instead as a Communist Hero. Jesus was not. He was not Capitalist, Communist or Socialist. He is the Son of God.

 

[Blues Man]

Though those nations without God have proven to be some of the worst nations in which to exist. Faith in a righteous pursuit based on a higher power is very influential.

And which nations are those? And do you actually think Iran is a great place to live?

Religion and gods are not required for people to live a good life.

 

[SweetSue92]

And which nations are those? And do you actually think Iran is a great place to live?

Religion and gods are not required for people to live a good life.

No they're not. That's because morality is "written on our hearts"

 

[Blues Man]

No they're not. That's because morality is "written on our hearts"

No it's not. It's created in our brains

 

[SweetSue92]

No it's not. It's created in our brains

So says BM. I think I'll go with God on this one. Actually--every one.

 

[shockedcanadian]

And which nations are those?

Religion and gods are not required for people to live a good life.

Of course they aren't required. Collectively though, people need a moral guide in general, if not, it becomes "dog eat dog" at every turn. Even concerns for the vulnerable evaporate. One looks at each other with suspicion, assumes they have a motive.

God brings communities together in shared values of being loving, forgiving, righteous. Otherwise, we all live in silos unconcerned with being a good human being. I believe I was a decent atheist, but, I wasn't as forgiving or concerned with others. Wisdom and Faith provide another dimension to ones considerations.

 

[JoeB131]

You do not have a single clue what I do or do not do.

It's very sad that there's a real Savior with power to save, and you have been tricked into holding Him up instead as a Communist Hero. Jesus was not. He was not Capitalist, Communist or Socialist. He is the Son of God.

Or he was just a dude with some radical ideas and his followers got carried away.

Or he was made up by later writers as a literary device. (I'm looking at you, Saul of Tarsus!)

 

[Red Front]

You do not have a single clue what I do or do not do.

It's very sad that there's a real Savior with power to save, and you have been tricked into holding Him up instead as a Communist Hero. Jesus was not. He was not Capitalist, Communist or Socialist. He is the Son of God.

I have clear evidence of what you do and believe through what you say and argue for and against. Jesus and his genuine, first-century apostles and disciples, were indeed communist heroes. You can pretend otherwise, ignoring all of the Biblical evidence if it makes you feel better. What we have today is a bunch of fake disciples who defend capitalism, with plenty of contempt, clear indifference, and disdain for the poor. Their inordinate love for mammon naturally causes them to hate the poor and love the rich. The wealthy capitalists, who they aspire to become here on earth.

 

[Red Front]

Or he was just a dude with some radical ideas and his followers got carried away.

Or he was made up by later writers as a literary device. (I'm looking at you, Saul of Tarsus!)

You can't be that direct and logical with them.

 

[GMCGeneral]

That's silly. You're pretending to be stupid now. If the one you call "Christ" has explicitly stated that he will cast people into hell for not feeding and housing homeless Christians or the poor, and you refuse to do that, then it's clear that you're not a true believer or disciple. You're not interested in truth, but in simply feeling warm and fuzzy inside. That's really your god. The warm and fuzzy. You're not a genuine truth seeker, much less a disciple of Christ. That's clear to anyone who simply reads what this man you call "Jesus" said. His name wasn't even Jesus.

Most people don't have a problem with Jesus, their repulsion and contempt is directed at people who pretend to be his disciples. Posers.

Wrong again, Bolshevik. The ONLY condition for Heaven is found in John 3:3. Unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

 

[Red Front]

Wrong again, Bolshevik. The ONLY condition for Heaven is found in John 3:3. Unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

You're not "born again" if you don't love Jesus. Jesus himself said:

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness (ANOMOIS = LAWLESS ONES).

I never knew you. We didn't have an intimate relationship. I don't know you. You're not a member of my family, you're at best of the nations that will be ruled by my people. You're not of me, because you refused to love your brethren as I loved you.

This is how I loved you. ​

No spiritual rebirth in heaven ("born above" is the literal translation from Greek in John 3:3), but rather you will perish here on earth with all of the fallen ones. Because of your love for this Satanic world, with all of its deceptive trinkets and devices. You fail to see the value of Christ and His gospel, so you attempt to have one foot in the Kingdom, above and another in the world below, but that's not how discipleship works. You've been chosen to join the royal family of Christ, in heaven, provided you die to your personal, wordly agenda and aspirations. It's not your program anymore, it's the "pick up your cross and follow Christ" initiative that you should be committed to. You've failed and that's why "Christianity" is irrelevant and impotent. No power or grace. A pathetic joke and caricature of the true assembly of Messiah.

 

[GMCGeneral]

You're not "born again" if you don't love Jesus. Jesus himself said:

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness (ANOMOIS = LAWLESS ONES).

I never knew you. We didn't have an intimate relationship. I don't know you. You're not a member of my family, you're at best of the nations that will be ruled by my people. You're not of me, because you refused to love your brethren as I loved you.

View attachment 751947
This is how I loved you. ​

No spiritual rebirth in heaven ("born above" is the literal translation from Greek in John 3:3), but rather you will perish here on earth with all of the fallen ones. Because of your love for this Satanic world, with all of its deceptive trinkets and devices. You fail to see the value of Christ and His gospel, so you attempt to have one foot in the Kingdom, above and another in the world below, but that's not how discipleship works. You've been chosen to join the royal family of Christ, in heaven, provided you die to your personal, wordly agenda and aspirations. It's not your program anymore, it's the "pick up your cross and follow Christ" initiative that you should be committed to. You've failed and that's why "Christianity" is irrelevant and impotent. No power or grace. A pathetic joke and caricature of the true assembly of Messiah.

It boils down to trusting Him for our salvation, and not by works. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it is by GRACE we have been saved by faith and not of ourselves. It ia the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS that man may boast. What it comes to is allowing God to work in us and through us to bring others to the Cross. Not just to meet physical needs. That ia NOT THE IDEA of the Gospel.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong again, Bolshevik. The ONLY condition for Heaven is found in John 3:3. Unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Yeah, this is why I can't believe in Christianity, even if I think it has any good ideas.

I give you the case of Jeffrey Dahmner and Anne Frank

By your logic, Jeffrey Dahmner saw the Kingdom of Heaven, because he was born again and embraced Jesus as his savior. Forget the Cannibalism and the Homosexuality, he embraced Jesus. He gets into heaven. Hopefully, he won't run into anyone he ate up there, because that would be massively awkward. He embraced Jesus, he subsequently died, he gets into Heaven, right?

On the other hand, Anne Frank never embraced Jesus. She remained a devout Jew until she died. She might have even harbored resentment towards the Christians who made her hide in an attic, carted her off to a Concentration camp, and killed her family. So down to Hell to burn for all eternity she goes! Just remember, kiddies, if Hitler burns Anne Frank once, he's evil. If God burns her for all eternity for not embracing Jesus, this is good.

Hopefully, she doesn't run into Hitler down there, because that would be awkward.

I personally doubt there's an afterlife, but if there is, I would hope the universe is well enough designed that you are judged on what you did, not what you believed because that's what your parents told you to believe.

 

[Red Front]

It boils down to trusting Him for our salvation, and not by works. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it is by GRACE we have been saved by faith and not of ourselves. It ia the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS that man may boast. What it comes to is allowing God to work in us and through us to bring others to the Cross. Not just to meet physical needs. That ia NOT THE IDEA of the Gospel.

You don't trust him for your salvation, nor do you have any faith, because if you were actually trusting and believing in Him, you would manifest the fruits of salvation, which includes obedience to Christ's commandments. So you're not of the elect of Christ, you're just a rebelious imposter.

 

[expat_panama]

A sad reality in many places. Will new generations live a righteous life without the guidance of a clear moral authority?

Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year – probably accelerated by Covid

www.theguardian.com

Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline​

Churches are closing at rapid numbers in the US, researchers say, as congregations dwindle across the country and a younger generation of Americans abandon Christianity altogether – even as faith continues to dominate American politics.

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year in the country – a figure that experts believe may have accelerated since the Covid-19 pandemic.


The situation means some hard decisions for pastors, who have to decide when a dwindling congregation is no longer sustainable. But it has also created a boom market for those wanting to buy churches, with former houses of worship now finding new life.


About 4,500 Protestant churches closed in 2019, the last year data is available, with about 3,000 new churches opening, according to Lifeway Research. It was the first time the number of churches in the US hadn’t grown since the evangelical firm started studying the topic. With the pandemic speeding up a broader trend of Americans turning away from Christianity, researchers say the closures will only have accelerated.

“The closures, even for a temporary period of time, impacted a lot of churches. People breaking that habit of attending church means a lot of churches had to work hard to get people back to attending again,” said Scott McConnell, executive director at Lifeway Research.

“In the last three years, all signs are pointing to a continued pace of closures probably similar to 2019 or possibly higher, as there’s been a really rapid rise in American individuals who say they’re not religious.”

--and if someone else in the U.K. published an article about how religious beliefs in the U.S. were increasing, then you'd take back everything you said? Look, they don't know everything in the U.K. The U.S. is a lot bigger and the Brits can't begin to understand.

Now, if we had some kind of hard research of Ameirican belief systems over the past 200 years we might know something, but church attendance stats leave out a lot.

 

[jwoodie]

Do you have the right to judge and condemn me for judging supposed Christians

So you have an exclusive right to judge others?

 

[jwoodie]

Religion and gods are not required for people to live a good life.

1. How do you define "a good life?"
2. What standards do you apply in making this determination?
3. Where did these standards come from?

Thank you in advance for enumerating your reply.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Yeah, this is why I can't believe in Christianity, even if I think it has any good ideas.

I give you the case of Jeffrey Dahmner and Anne Frank

By your logic, Jeffrey Dahmner saw the Kingdom of Heaven, because he was born again and embraced Jesus as his savior. Forget the Cannibalism and the Homosexuality, he embraced Jesus. He gets into heaven. Hopefully, he won't run into anyone he ate up there, because that would be massively awkward. He embraced Jesus, he subsequently died, he gets into Heaven, right?

On the other hand, Anne Frank never embraced Jesus. She remained a devout Jew until she died. She might have even harbored resentment towards the Christians who made her hide in an attic, carted her off to a Concentration camp, and killed her family. So down to Hell to burn for all eternity she goes! Just remember, kiddies, if Hitler burns Anne Frank once, he's evil. If God burns her for all eternity for not embracing Jesus, this is good.

Hopefully, she doesn't run into Hitler down there, because that would be awkward.

I personally doubt there's an afterlife, but if there is, I would hope the universe is well enough designed that you are judged on what you did, not what you believed because that's what your parents told you to believe.

I can counter with Son of Sam killer David Berkowicz. He is Heavenbound because he put his trust in Christ.

 

[GMCGeneral]

You don't trust him for your salvation, nor do you have any faith, because if you were actually trusting and believing in Him, you would manifest the fruits of salvation, which includes obedience to Christ's commandments. So you're not of the elect of Christ, you're just a rebelious imposter.

Of course I do. I have been saved since 1989. The only thiby God expects of me is to willingly submit to His will. Obedience comes naturally and any sin and unrighteousness has already been dealt with.