Making Imperial Israel Whole

[toastman]

"Imperial" Israelis just gobbling up all the land! Take a look at Israeli imperialism. This has to stop!

 

[High_Gravity]

For more than thirty years Israel has planned to balkanize Arab states like Iraq and Syria into warring factions in order to elevate it's international status to that of Superpower.

"1. The idea that all the Arab states should be broken down, by Israel, into small units, occurs again and
again in Israeli strategic thinking. For example, Ze'ev Schiff, the military correspondent of Ha'aretz
(and probably the most knowledgeable in Israel, on this topic) writes about the "best" that can happen
for Israeli interests in Iraq: "The dissolution of Iraq into a Shi'ite state, a Sunni state and the separation
of the Kurdish part" (Ha'aretz 6/2/1982). Actually, this aspect of the plan is very old.

"2. The strong connection with Neo-Conservative thought in the USA is very prominent, especially in
the author's notes. But, while lip service is paid to the idea of the 'defense of the West' from Soviet
power, the real aim of the author, and of the present Israeli establishment is clear: To make an Imperial
Israel into a world power. In other words, the aim of Sharon is to deceive the Americans after he has
deceived all the rest. "

"A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties."

http://syria360.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east.pdf

Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, and Iran are slated for extinction so Imperial Israel can deceive its principle benefactor. Gee, I wonder if any USS Liberty survivors are surprised?

If this is true Israel is the most powerful country in the world, to make all these countries dance like puppets on a string.

 

[High_Gravity]

And how the fuck is Israel responsible for whats going on in Sudan, Somalia, Libya etc? they are not even neighbors with them.

 

[Bloodrock44]

georgephillip, et al,

Oh yes, I've noticed.

Have you noticed any recent attempts to dissolve Libya, Iraq, and Syria?

(COMMENT)

The history of the Arab World, less the Hashemite Kingdom and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (plus the derivative Emirates), has been one of near continuous conflict; mostly at their own hand. Of late, the "Arab Spring" can hardly be laid at the feet of the US or Israel.

Lebanon:

• Saleh al Aridi - a leader of the Lebanese Democratic Party. Assassinated on 10 September 2008.
• Kamal Naji - also known as Kamal Medhat, a Palestinian living in Lebanon who served as the deputy representative of the PLO in Lebanon. Assassinated on 23 March 2009.
• Wissam al-Hassan, head of information branch of the Internal Security Forces. Assassinated on 19 October 2012.

Libya:

(Beirut) – At least 51 people have died in a broadening wave of apparent political assassinations in the cities of Benghazi and Derna in volatile eastern Libya. Authorities have not prosecuted anyone for these crimes, and have no suspects in custody, as far as Human Rights Watch has been able to determine.​

Iraq:

In the first Iraqi elections since the American troop withdrawal, Sunni candidates are being attacked and killed in greater numbers than in recent campaigns, raising concerns in Washington over Iraq’s political stability and the viability of a democratic system the United States has heavily invested in over years of war and diplomacy.

At least 15 candidates, all members of the minority Sunni community, have been assassinated—some apparently by political opponents, others by radical Sunni militants. Many others have been wounded or kidnapped or have received menacing text messages or phone calls demanding that they withdraw.​

Syria:

BEIRUT -- Syrian opposition forces have targeted government officials, army and police officers and civil servants in their campaign to topple President Bashar Assad's regime.
​

This is the natural order for the way Arabs do business. They are cannibalistic, and relish killing their own kind.

Most Respectfully,
R

What do you call those who take money to murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland...good guys?

Your masters!

 

[Bloodrock44]

And how the fuck is Israel responsible for whats going on in Sudan, Somalia, Libya etc? they are not even neighbors with them.

The Jew haters are going to blame Israel regardless the subject. It's the JOOOOOOOOOOS

 

[toastman]

georgephillip, et al,

Oh yes, I've noticed.

Have you noticed any recent attempts to dissolve Libya, Iraq, and Syria?

(COMMENT)

The history of the Arab World, less the Hashemite Kingdom and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (plus the derivative Emirates), has been one of near continuous conflict; mostly at their own hand. Of late, the "Arab Spring" can hardly be laid at the feet of the US or Israel.

Lebanon:

• Saleh al Aridi - a leader of the Lebanese Democratic Party. Assassinated on 10 September 2008.
• Kamal Naji - also known as Kamal Medhat, a Palestinian living in Lebanon who served as the deputy representative of the PLO in Lebanon. Assassinated on 23 March 2009.
• Wissam al-Hassan, head of information branch of the Internal Security Forces. Assassinated on 19 October 2012.

Libya:

(Beirut) – At least 51 people have died in a broadening wave of apparent political assassinations in the cities of Benghazi and Derna in volatile eastern Libya. Authorities have not prosecuted anyone for these crimes, and have no suspects in custody, as far as Human Rights Watch has been able to determine.​

Iraq:

In the first Iraqi elections since the American troop withdrawal, Sunni candidates are being attacked and killed in greater numbers than in recent campaigns, raising concerns in Washington over Iraq’s political stability and the viability of a democratic system the United States has heavily invested in over years of war and diplomacy.

At least 15 candidates, all members of the minority Sunni community, have been assassinated—some apparently by political opponents, others by radical Sunni militants. Many others have been wounded or kidnapped or have received menacing text messages or phone calls demanding that they withdraw.​

Syria:

BEIRUT -- Syrian opposition forces have targeted government officials, army and police officers and civil servants in their campaign to topple President Bashar Assad's regime.
​

This is the natural order for the way Arabs do business. They are cannibalistic, and relish killing their own kind.

Most Respectfully,
R

What do you call those who take money to murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland...good guys?

I call that a conspiracy theory

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

I'm not quite sure.

georgephillip, et al,

Oh yes, I've noticed.


(COMMENT)

The history of the Arab World, less the Hashemite Kingdom and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (plus the derivative Emirates), has been one of near continuous conflict; mostly at their own hand. Of late, the "Arab Spring" can hardly be laid at the feet of the US or Israel.

Lebanon:

• Saleh al Aridi - a leader of the Lebanese Democratic Party. Assassinated on 10 September 2008.
• Kamal Naji - also known as Kamal Medhat, a Palestinian living in Lebanon who served as the deputy representative of the PLO in Lebanon. Assassinated on 23 March 2009.
• Wissam al-Hassan, head of information branch of the Internal Security Forces. Assassinated on 19 October 2012.

Libya:

(Beirut) – At least 51 people have died in a broadening wave of apparent political assassinations in the cities of Benghazi and Derna in volatile eastern Libya. Authorities have not prosecuted anyone for these crimes, and have no suspects in custody, as far as Human Rights Watch has been able to determine.​

Iraq:

In the first Iraqi elections since the American troop withdrawal, Sunni candidates are being attacked and killed in greater numbers than in recent campaigns, raising concerns in Washington over Iraq’s political stability and the viability of a democratic system the United States has heavily invested in over years of war and diplomacy.

At least 15 candidates, all members of the minority Sunni community, have been assassinated—some apparently by political opponents, others by radical Sunni militants. Many others have been wounded or kidnapped or have received menacing text messages or phone calls demanding that they withdraw.​

Syria:

BEIRUT -- Syrian opposition forces have targeted government officials, army and police officers and civil servants in their campaign to topple President Bashar Assad's regime.
​

This is the natural order for the way Arabs do business. They are cannibalistic, and relish killing their own kind.

Most Respectfully,
R

What do you call those who take money to murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland...good guys?

I call that a conspiracy theory

(COMMENT)

Who are you claiming "murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs?"

"opposite side of the planet from their homeland" ???

OK, speak plainly. Who (be specific) did what to whom; and where?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

Maybe the Jewish state should simply vanish from the page of time instead?

Maybe occupied Caliphonriah should be returned to Mexico with our honorable georgephillip paying rent to the latter with interest? With interest accrued, of course.

Funny you should mention that...Demographics have already made Texas a majority Hispanic State...California is on the verge.

Demographers have calculated that the USA will be a Hispanic majority nation in less than 50 years...

Press two for English!

Demographically Israel will never keep a Jewish majority in the future.

Yup, Arab Babies will win the war without having to fire a shot, just like the Mexicans, amigo...

 

[georgephillip]

..you're calling Oded Yinion an Arab propagandist, right?

Who knows, but Shahak certainly was one and a "creative" monomaniacal asshole too, of course.

Have you noticed any recent attempts to dissolve Libya, Iraq, and Syria?

Why, it's an arab spring!

Shahak didn't write the following:

"A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties
by Oded Yinon
This essay originally appeared in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No, 14–Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari, Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization, Jerusalem.

"At the outset of the nineteen eighties the State of Israel is in need of a new perspective as to its place, its aims and national targets, at home and abroad. This need has become even more vital due to a number of central processes which the country, the region and the world are undergoing.

"We are living today in the early stages of a new epoch in human history which is not at all similar to its predecessor, and its characteristics are totally different from what we have hitherto known.

"That is why we need an understanding of the central processes which typify this historical epoch on the one hand, and on the other hand we need a world outlook and an operational strategy in accordance with the new conditions.

"The existence, prosperity and steadfastness of the Jewish state will depend upon its ability to adopt a new framework for its domestic and foreign affairs..."

"All the Arab States east of Israel are torn apart, broken up and riddled with inner conflict even more than those of the Maghreb. Syria is fundamentally no different from Lebanon except in the strong military regime which rules it.

"But the real civil war taking place nowadays between the Sunni majority and the Shi’ite Alawi ruling minority (a mere 12% of the population) testifies to the severity of the domestic trouble.

"Iraq is, once again, no different in essence from its neighbors, although its majority is Shi’ite and the ruling minority Sunni. Sixty-five percent of the population has no say in politics, in which an elite of 20 percent holds the power.

"In addition there is a large Kurdish minority in the north, and if it weren’t for the strength of the ruling regime, the army and the oil revenues, Iraq’s future state would be no different than that of Lebanon in the past or of Syria today.

"The seeds of inner conflict and civil war are apparent today already, especially after the rise of Khomeini to power in Iran, a leader whom the Shi’ites in Iraq view as their natural leader.
?Greater Israel?: The Zionist Plan for the Middle East | Global Research

"Syria is fundamentally no different than Lebanon..."
Does that mean the IDF will face another 2006 butt kicking on the road to Damascus?

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

I'm not quite sure.

What do you call those who take money to murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland...good guys?

I call that a conspiracy theory

(COMMENT)

Who are you claiming "murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs?"

"opposite side of the planet from their homeland" ???

OK, speak plainly. Who (be specific) did what to whom; and where?

Most Respectfully,
R

"The Iraq War[nb 1] was an armed conflict in Iraq that consisted of two phases.[41] The first was an invasion of Iraq starting on 20 March 2003 by an invasion force led by the United States.[42][43][44][45] It was followed by a longer phase of fighting, in which an insurgency emerged to oppose the occupying forces and the newly formed Iraqi government.[41] The U.S. completed its withdrawal of military personnel in December 2011.[46][47] However, the Iraqi insurgency continues and has caused thousands of fatalities in 2012."
Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

For more than thirty years Israel has planned to balkanize Arab states like Iraq and Syria into warring factions in order to elevate it's international status to that of Superpower.

"1. The idea that all the Arab states should be broken down, by Israel, into small units, occurs again and
again in Israeli strategic thinking. For example, Ze'ev Schiff, the military correspondent of Ha'aretz
(and probably the most knowledgeable in Israel, on this topic) writes about the "best" that can happen
for Israeli interests in Iraq: "The dissolution of Iraq into a Shi'ite state, a Sunni state and the separation
of the Kurdish part" (Ha'aretz 6/2/1982). Actually, this aspect of the plan is very old.

"2. The strong connection with Neo-Conservative thought in the USA is very prominent, especially in
the author's notes. But, while lip service is paid to the idea of the 'defense of the West' from Soviet
power, the real aim of the author, and of the present Israeli establishment is clear: To make an Imperial
Israel into a world power. In other words, the aim of Sharon is to deceive the Americans after he has
deceived all the rest. "

"A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties."

http://syria360.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east.pdf

Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, and Iran are slated for extinction so Imperial Israel can deceive its principle benefactor. Gee, I wonder if any USS Liberty survivors are surprised?

WTF are you blabbing about now ??
You have some very weird serious obsession with Israel.

I'm saying the Long War that Wesley Clark wrote about in 2003 has been a "contingency" of Israel and the US since the 1980s, at least. Thirty years ago there was a rival superpower with thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at the US and its kosher proxy which dissuaded any active attempt to balkanize seven Muslim countries in five years. That's not the case today. Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and Syria have either fallen or they are in the throes of revolutionary change designed to elevate Israel to the status of a regional superpower (at least) and possibly pave the way for the Jewish state's entry into NATO.
If you have further questions ask Assad, Gaddafi, or Saddam.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Viktor]

I have asked Ha aretz for their archive of past editions. I'm going to look for the article you quoted, if it actually exists.

 

[georgephillip]

My magnificient me actually took the trouble of reading that 1982 material and, predictably delirious commentation of Shahak (praise allah for his effort in ridding the world of that walking-driveling individual) aside, it is very interesting in the context of the US-USSR standoff, explicitly mentioned, and the mideast situation thereof that time. His account of the arab habitat:

• This world, with its ethnic minorities, its factions and internal crises, which is astonishingly self-destructive, as we can see in Lebanon, in non-Arab Iran and now also in Syria, is unable to deal successfully with its fundamental problems and does not therefore constitute a real threat against the State of Israel in the long run, but only in the short run where its immediate military power has great import. In the long run, this world will be unable to exist within its present framework in the areas around us without having to go through genuine revolutionary changes. The Moslem Arab World is built like a temporary house of cards put together by foreigners (France and Britain in the Nineteen Twenties), without the wishes and desires of the inhabitants having been taken into account. It was arbitrarily divided into 19 states, all made of combinations of minorites and ethnic groups which are hostile to one another, so that every Arab Moslem state nowadays faces ethnic social destruction from within, and in some a civil war is already raging.

is brilliant. Provided, Shahak didn't make it all up himself.
As to the Arab-American university and its respective drivel, it's a backwater sty, headquartered in Jenin, palistan.

Substitute Caliphate for Communism

Drivel non sequitur.

Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events: February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

The "progressive" world was doing same to the South Africa, the USSR was doing same against Israel, France played one african tinpot against another, the EU finances israeli leftists, etc., congrats on discovering america. hehehe

Did you champion the cause of White rule in South Africa, Drivel.
Israel did:

"lsrael's ties with South Africa seem to be especially disturbing to many who follow Israel's international activities. Perhaps it is natural that Israel has been castigated more harshly for its arms sales to South Africa than for its sales to other countries: first, because there has been for a decade an arms embargo against South Africa; and second, because of the unsurpassed criminality of the white regime and the uses to which it puts the Israeli-supplied weapons."

Israel and South Africa

Shit clumps, hehehe.

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

The rationale and analysis behind the Bush, Clinton lies about Iraq and Obama's lies about Sarin in Syria share a common Truth, Rocco. One that Wesley Clark revealed in his 2003 book and Yinon wrote about twenty years earlier: namely the borders of a New Middle East will be re-drawn in Muslim blood to enhance the lifestyles of rich bankers and generals in the west. If Yinon's esaay "has little connection to today's reality", how do you explain the events that have occurred in Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon over the past decade and those unfolding in Syria?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

georgephillip, et al,

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

The rationale and analysis behind the Bush, Clinton lies about Iraq and Obama's lies about Sarin in Syria share a common Truth, Rocco. One that Wesley Clark revealed in his 2003 book and Yinon wrote about twenty years earlier: namely the borders of a New Middle East will be re-drawn in Muslim blood to enhance the lifestyles of rich bankers and generals in the west. If Yinon's esaay "has little connection to today's reality", how do you explain the events that have occurred in Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon over the past decade and those unfolding in Syria?

What's happening today in those Arab countries are the Arabs' own responsibility. And I don't believe Obama deliberately told lies about Sarin in Syria. He had no real desire to strike Syria, and in the end he avoided it.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

The assumption of a connection has an implication.

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

The rationale and analysis behind the Bush, Clinton lies about Iraq and Obama's lies about Sarin in Syria share a common Truth, Rocco. One that Wesley Clark revealed in his 2003 book and Yinon wrote about twenty years earlier: namely the borders of a New Middle East will be re-drawn in Muslim blood to enhance the lifestyles of rich bankers and generals in the west. If Yinon's esaay "has little connection to today's reality", how do you explain the events that have occurred in Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon over the past decade and those unfolding in Syria?

(COMMENT)

The assumed connection that Oded Yinon makes between the hypothesized strategy of the 1980's and today's realty is dependent on actual actions being taken to set the conditions for the events you identify (the events that have occurred in Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon over the past decade and those unfolding in Syria). As if, somehow, the US or Israel set in motion some series of political dominoes that were, by design, were to have the ultimate outcome we see in the Middle East today. If one were to assume this was true, then --- we are talking about a certain predictability of events.

• I assure you, the events that are unfolding today in Iraq are anything but those predicted 10, 15 or 20 years ago. And certainly, the outcome in Iraq have not met the expectations or desired results of either the Western World or the Muslim World.

• The "Arab Spring," that started in Egypt, culminated in a totally unpredictable outcome, but no more so than if the regime change had naturally occurred had Hozni Mubarak, a stalwart American ally, had died naturally in office. The chaos that resulted in the change would not have been much different.

• Syria is unfolding. There is no predictability in those events, and certainly they are not, in any way a desired outcome of US or Israeli intervention.

At anytime, a modern day prognosticator can write a series of prophecies that predict the evolutionary struggles and destabilization we see in the Middle East today. Much like the economy, economic professors can look backwards and explain events in reconstructive form; but, they cannot use the same tools to predict the events of the future. So it is with the "events that have occurred in Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon over the past decade and those unfolding in Syria;" other than to say --- it is the Arab way.

But again, to suggest that there was some grand conspiracy to made the dominoes fall the way they did, is nonsense.

As far as General Clark goes, nearly all the retired Generals toy with the idea of writing a book. GEN Clark is a product of the Cold War and Vietnam. As a former Supreme Allied Commander, he is naturally NATO Centric. Maybe Israel will, someday, consider joining NATO, and maybe not. It is not a foregone conclusion at this point, especially given the tension (both politically and economically) between the the EU members and Israel. NATO membership brings with it baggage that Israel would just as soon not lift in these trying times.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

georgephillip, et al,

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

FYI

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5x3AAal0cY]ReThink911 | September 11, 2013 - NYC | Cynthia McKinney - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Hossfly]

georgephillip, et al,

I'm not quite sure.

What do you call those who take money to murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs on the opposite side of the planet from their homeland...good guys?

I call that a conspiracy theory

(COMMENT)

Who are you claiming "murder, maim, displace and incarcerate millions of Arabs?"

"opposite side of the planet from their homeland" ???

OK, speak plainly. Who (be specific) did what to whom; and where?

Most Respectfully,
R

C'mon, Rocco. Don't pretend you don't know it's all about money!

 

[Hossfly]

georgephillip, et al,

George, I think you have found a kindred spirit in Oded Yinon.

"Oded Yinon was a participant or observer in the following events:
February 1982: Article in Israeli Journal Says Israel Should Exploit Internal Tensions of Arab States

"The winter issue of Kivunim, a 'A Journal for Judaism and Zionism,' publishes 'A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties' by Oded Yinon.

"The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace.

"Instead, Yinon suggests that the Arab States should be destroyed from within by exploiting their internal religious and ethnic tensions..."

Oded Yinon

Give peace a chance for a change.

(COMMENT)

In every regime, in any country of influence, political and economic importance, or military power, you will find you will find a representative sample of personalities all over the political spectrum. In the 1980's, as well as today, this spectrum has both hawks and doves at the second deviation points --- outside the normative center. Oded Yinon is one of those hawks to the far right. Notice that, his essay (as short as it is) has more than 20 footnotes in the essay: "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties." from which you quote. There is hardly a paragraph of original thought.

This is by no means an essay on an official plan. For instance:

The passage you bolded, supra, "The paper, published in Hebrew, rejects the idea that Israel should carry through with the Camp David accords and seek peace." This comes from paragraph 18, which says:

(Regaining) the Sinai peninsula with its present and potential resources is therefore a political priority which is obstructed by the Camp David and the peace agreements. The fault for that lies of course with the present Israeli government and the governments which paved the road to the policy of territorial compromise, the Alignment governments since 1967. The Egyptians will not need to keep the peace treaty after the return of the Sinai, and they will do all they can to return to the fold of the Arab world and to the USSR in order to gain support and military assistance. American aid is guaranteed only for a short while, for the terms of the peace and the weakening of the U.S. both at home and abroad will bring about a reduction in aid. Without oil and the income from it, with the present enormous expenditure, we will not be able to get through 1982 under the present conditions and we will have to act in order to return the situation to the status quo which existed in Sinai prior to Sadat's visit and the mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979.

SOURCE: The Essay by Oded Yinon

Oded Yinon published the essay in 1982. Obviously, conditions change. So far, the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty has held for more than three decades. And with the exploitation of the Levant Basin gas and oil finds, the "mistaken peace agreement signed with him in March 1979," has a new lease on life.

The mistake you made is not uncommon. The rationale and analysis used by the Bush Administration to declare Iraq as a WMD threat to regional peace was also flawed on dated material. The Yinon essay has little connection to today's reality. It doesn't take a Los Vegas Bookie to make odds on a disturbance in the future for the Middle East or Persian Gulf (or both). Much like the Nostradamus Quatrains, you can read a lot in what Yinon said, yet be totally off the mark.

In some fairness. Oded Yinon did make a couple of exceptionally good points, but they had little to do with the Gaza Strip or West Bank.

Most Respectfully,
R

FYI

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5x3AAal0cY]ReThink911 | September 11, 2013 - NYC | Cynthia McKinney - YouTube[/ame]

FYI: Truthers, UNITE!!!