Malaysian airliner missing with 239 people on board

[wavingrl]

-The Chinese are sending the 'Ice Dragon'--breaks up ice --to search closer to the South Pole.

-Some minor speculation on the pilot/copilot--did one of them have a psychotic break?

--Lithium batteries caught fire.

--Malaysia will request additional sonar equipment from the US. Until they have a specific area to search--the sonar equipment won't be of much use.

They showed some type of robot --designed by an oceanographic institute in Maine--that can go deep --and search the ocean floor. The institute said they would be ready to go whenever the call came. That's good.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...be-found-even-in-deep-ocean.html#.Uyw_Wmco-ic

<With the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight in its second week, there are fears that any wreckage may be too deep to find if it has crashed in the Indian Ocean.

But if it's there search teams will find it, says David Gallo of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. In 2011, he used three robot submarines to find Air France flight 447 beneath the Atlantic, 4 kilometres down.

"No depth is beyond our reach," he told New Scientist. "Without doubt, if the aircraft is in the oceans, given time we can, and will, find it &#8211; even in the deepest and most rugged terrain."

But first the searchers have to know where to look (see map below). Signals pinged from the jet to a geostationary satellite have led to air and sea searches along two vast corridors: north-west from Malaysia towards Kazakhstan, and south-west out over the Indian Ocean, which has an average depth of 3900 metres but with trenches twice that deep in places.
>

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Shouldn't they have waited until they had the 'objects' in hand before informing the press? I'm sure there's lots of junk floating around in the ocean, but it seems irresponsible to inform the global press just because you see something bobbing in the water.

You might think that but consider what they have to lose if they don't follow every lead. It costs a lot of money to do rescue so why do it alone if you have a lead? Are Australians responsible for the search if it isn't their plane so if we're not all in it together, why search? Why search if you don't have a lead?

It has been reported the Qantas plane used to spot her costs A$10,000 an hour to operate.[47] The total cost of the international rescue is estimated by media to be up to GB£116,000 (A$200,000)[51] or A$300,000[52] depending on source.

Abby Sunderland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can follow leads without informing the press and getting families' hopes up.

 

[jon_berzerk]

a C130 once landed on a carrier. It only landed though.

a c-130 can both land and takeoff from a carrier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjNyQvhsQE8

C-130 Carrier Landing without Hook | Military.com

so--the planes being used in the search are too big to land/takeoff from carriers?

I believe we are using P-3s for the most part, and yes....too big for carriers.

p-3s fitted with a tailhook can land on an aircraft carrier



however the p-3 Orion if that is used is too heavy to pull off a carrier landing

 

[Sarah G]

If someone hijacked that plane, they would have claimed credit by now. It just has to be underwater somewhere, I'm afraid.



I was wishing people would make it out of this somehow.

 

[wavingrl]

If someone hijacked that plane, they would have claimed credit by now. It just has to be underwater somewhere, I'm afraid.



I was wishing people would make it out of this somehow.

I know.

They only have a couple of weeks to find the black boxes.

 

[Sarah G]

If someone hijacked that plane, they would have claimed credit by now. It just has to be underwater somewhere, I'm afraid.



I was wishing people would make it out of this somehow.

I know.

They only have a couple of weeks to find the black boxes.

Today is day 14, right?

 

[wavingrl]

If someone hijacked that plane, they would have claimed credit by now. It just has to be underwater somewhere, I'm afraid.



I was wishing people would make it out of this somehow.

I know.

They only have a couple of weeks to find the black boxes.

Today is day 14, right?

I think so. Not the time for 'blaming' but, clearly there is some frustration with the way this was handled. Whether those involved in designing aircraft and regulating can address the issues that would prevent another such incident---I have no idea. A few proposals have been discussed--improvements to the data collection/black boxes and security cameras in the cockpit.

The idea that the pilot/copilot just decided to do this--I think that bothers me the most. No matter how much money that the families of passengers might receive nothing will ever be enough.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So you mean to tell me that if a Russia submarine were to launch a missile from this area toward the USA we'd have absolutely no way of knowing about the launch. It's the one and only area on the planet the USA does not watch 24/7 for any sign of an undersea missile launch.

Hmmmmmkay

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[Sarah G]

I know.

They only have a couple of weeks to find the black boxes.

Today is day 14, right?

I think so. Not the time for 'blaming' but, clearly there is some frustration with the way this was handled. Whether those involved in designing aircraft and regulating can address the issues that would prevent another such incident---I have no idea. A few proposals have been discussed--improvements to the data collection/black boxes and security cameras in the cockpit.

The idea that the pilot/copilot just decided to do this--I think that bothers me the most. No matter how much money that the families of passengers might receive nothing will ever be enough.

The other factor making it an impossible task to find anything is that it continues to move with the ocean currents. More countries are joining the search and they are focusing on actual human eyes looking for smaller debris that radar simply misses.

 

[Sarah G]

So you mean to tell me that if a Russia submarine were to launch a missile from this area toward the USA we'd have absolutely no way of knowing about the launch. It's the one and only area on the planet the USA does not watch 24/7 for any sign of an undersea missile launch.

Hmmmmmkay

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

How far can a submarine missile travel, Frank?

 

[wavingrl]

Today is day 14, right?

I think so. Not the time for 'blaming' but, clearly there is some frustration with the way this was handled. Whether those involved in designing aircraft and regulating can address the issues that would prevent another such incident---I have no idea. A few proposals have been discussed--improvements to the data collection/black boxes and security cameras in the cockpit.

The idea that the pilot/copilot just decided to do this--I think that bothers me the most. No matter how much money that the families of passengers might receive nothing will ever be enough.

The other factor making it an impossible task to find anything is that it continues to move with the ocean currents. More countries are joining the search and they are focusing on actual human eyes looking for smaller debris that radar simply misses.

They explained this AM--that there are currents on the surface and different currents further down--they move in different directions--I think that was the gist.

At this time of year--iirc, lots going on in the area--something to do with Antarctica.

They also said--that mathematic calculations have to be done ? every day--to reconfigure the search area.

The P-8/US and P-3/Australia?--intended for use in searching for submarines--'the most effective tool we have for this type of search'--but not really designed for this.

They have sent or may send drones to search, too.
eta: I didn't read all of this--clearly there are issues with drones. If they can assist--pragmatically--use them anyway.
http://www.defenseone.com/technolog...sian-airlines-flight-370/80983/?oref=d-skybox

~~~
my mind wandered--how many submarines does the US lose? I suppose it happens--the Navy seems well prepared to search for them. I don't think I can recall news of a missing submarine.

I also couldn't help but wonder about the cost of the buoys with sonar equipment that are being tossed out. $1,000,000 or so for each of them? I have no idea. Fascinating that such equipment exists.
Very grateful that highly skilled individuals across the globe are available.

 

[wavingrl]

This article clarified a few things for me.

Sub-Hunting Planes Use High-Tech Gear To Search For Flight 370 : The Two-Way : NPR

<What If The Debris Has Sunk?

LaGrone says both aircraft are capable of dropping sonobuoys, which are designed to detect submarines, but they might not be of much use for an object sitting on the bottom of the ocean. You can see a video of a P-3 dropping a sonobuoy here.

"If it's underwater, you might be able to detect that with sonar, but it really depends on the circumstances," he says.

"If you determined there was something there &#8212; either on the surface or on the bottom &#8212; that's when surface ships would arrive with more sophisticated sonar and underwater equipment to take a closer look," LaGrone says.

In a nine-hour search of the area on Thursday, a U.S. P-8 came back empty-handed after finding only a freighter and some dolphins, ABCNews says.
>

 

[Spoonman]

 

[Sarah G]

 

[Spoonman]

ok, i know it was in poor taste. but istill lol'd

 

[beagle9]

If someone hijacked that plane, they would have claimed credit by now. It just has to be underwater somewhere, I'm afraid.



I was wishing people would make it out of this somehow.

Not if plans were to use it later, then it would remain silent until then..

 

[beagle9]

This article clarified a few things for me.

Sub-Hunting Planes Use High-Tech Gear To Search For Flight 370 : The Two-Way : NPR

<What If The Debris Has Sunk?

LaGrone says both aircraft are capable of dropping sonobuoys, which are designed to detect submarines, but they might not be of much use for an object sitting on the bottom of the ocean. You can see a video of a P-3 dropping a sonobuoy here.

"If it's underwater, you might be able to detect that with sonar, but it really depends on the circumstances," he says.

"If you determined there was something there &#8212; either on the surface or on the bottom &#8212; that's when surface ships would arrive with more sophisticated sonar and underwater equipment to take a closer look," LaGrone says.

In a nine-hour search of the area on Thursday, a U.S. P-8 came back empty-handed after finding only a freighter and some dolphins, ABCNews says.
>

The sonar bouy's are or will be listening out for the black box I would think. What about that thought maybe ?

 

[wavingrl]

CNN has been discussing potential litigation and now the cost of this operation.

--The P-8/US--1/4 billion dollar aircraft --$2million spent so far by US and $4million budgeted through April. US is not contributing the most.

--The area to be searched --I think they said 300X the Area of the Air France crash--and they knew where to search for that--seemed like the cost was in the billions. Something about 300,000,000 miles --I could have all that wrong. The costs were beyond belief and yes, at some point--if there are no clues as to where to search it is senseless to continue.

-After discussing the recently released--'unofficial' transcript of the last communication between 370 and the ground--someone pointed out --at the point that the plane was turning and not contacting Viet Nam as it should have--the 'prudent' thing to have done was send the fighter jets up to find out what was going on. Loud and clear that needs to be understood. jmo.

--Lots of litigating will be forthcoming. Boeing likely to be a defendant along with Malaysian Airlines and certainly anyone else who can be found negligent.

--Once again it was discussed that a $10 adaptation to the black box could have provided much better data. Malaysian airlines chose not to purchase this. No conclusion as to why they were not required--'difficult to regulate aviation'--'keep the costs down'. As an attorney for potential plaintiffs --I would be working night and day on that --I just can't believe it.

I guess I have learned a few things from this.

 

[namvet]

just in

 

[HenryBHough]

I count it as a failure that Harry Reid hasn't held a press conference to blame the disappearance on Bush.