Malaysian airliner missing with 239 people on board

[jon_berzerk]

Sure took Long enough

it certainly has

The task is finding it again. As long as it doesn't sink, it certainly is long enough for a look.

true

 

[Chuckt]

it certainly has

The task is finding it again. As long as it doesn't sink, it certainly is long enough for a look.

true

When I'm looking at the satellite image, I'm expecting to see more of an "X" pattern". Unfortunately, they don't give us a bigger picture.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The task is finding it again. As long as it doesn't sink, it certainly is long enough for a look.

true

When I'm looking at the satellite image, I'm expecting to see more of an "X" pattern". Unfortunately, they don't give us a bigger picture.

that could be because of a couple of reasons

either they do not want the world to know how good their imaging is

or

they just have crappy imagining

 

[Chuckt]

true

When I'm looking at the satellite image, I'm expecting to see more of an "X" pattern". Unfortunately, they don't give us a bigger picture.

that could be because of a couple of reasons

either they do not want the world to know how good their imaging is

or

they just have crappy imagining

It could just be a 40 by 70 foot shipping container.

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[jon_berzerk]

When I'm looking at the satellite image, I'm expecting to see more of an "X" pattern". Unfortunately, they don't give us a bigger picture.

that could be because of a couple of reasons

either they do not want the world to know how good their imaging is

or

they just have crappy imagining

It could just be a 40 by 70 foot shipping container.

Storage Containers, Trailer Rentals, Office Trailers | EagleLeasing.com

possible

i was wondering if any of the junk from japans disaster could be floating in that area

 

[namvet]

a new lead

A Chinese satellite has spotted a large object along a broad stretch of ocean where officials hope to find a Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than two weeks, Malaysia's defense minister said Saturday.

link

??

 

[Samson]

Why does the transponder have an off and on switch?

Why do airplane transponders have an 'off switch?' - News Nation Washington - Boston.com

Thanks.

Here are the reasons given in the article:

It’s rare for a pilot to turn off a transponder during flight, but occasionally there is cause.

1. — Sometimes a transponder malfunctions, giving out incorrect readings.
   
2. — The device could have an electrical short or catch on fire. Pilots would want to shut it down rather than risk a fire spreading to the rest of the cockpit or airplane.
   
3. — Pilots used to routinely turn off transponders on the ground at airports so as not to overwhelm air traffic controllers with so many signals in one location. That is increasingly less the case as pilots now use ‘‘moving map’’ displays that take the transponder data and show them the location of other planes on the ground, helping guide them around airports without mishaps

Presumably:
1. shutting your transponder off is better than it being inaccurate? Let's just say this is stupid, and keep the transponder on until you reach the freaking maintenance bay.

2. the transponder is not terribly well made. We can all use a hair-drier next to a sink full of water, and rely on the surge protector in the outlet to prevent fires and electrical shorts, but this is impossible on an airplane? Idea: run the transponder off a small battery, and change the battery every flight.

3. Air traffic was controled using transponder transmissions. Technological advancements have not evolved to completely change this practice, so turning off the transponder is a logical alternative? Hey, Air traffic control: If you can give directions with transponders off, then you certainly should be able to give directions with them on.

 

[Samson]

a new lead

A Chinese satellite has spotted a large object along a broad stretch of ocean where officials hope to find a Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than two weeks, Malaysia's defense minister said Saturday.

link

??

Here is a closer image:

 

[jon_berzerk]

Why does the transponder have an off and on switch?

Why do airplane transponders have an 'off switch?' - News Nation Washington - Boston.com

Thanks.

Here are the reasons given in the article:

It’s rare for a pilot to turn off a transponder during flight, but occasionally there is cause.

1. — Sometimes a transponder malfunctions, giving out incorrect readings.
   
2. — The device could have an electrical short or catch on fire. Pilots would want to shut it down rather than risk a fire spreading to the rest of the cockpit or airplane.
   
3. — Pilots used to routinely turn off transponders on the ground at airports so as not to overwhelm air traffic controllers with so many signals in one location. That is increasingly less the case as pilots now use ‘‘moving map’’ displays that take the transponder data and show them the location of other planes on the ground, helping guide them around airports without mishaps

Presumably:
1. shutting your transponder off is better than it being inaccurate? Let's just say this is stupid, and keep the transponder on until you reach the freaking maintenance bay.

2. the transponder is not terribly well made. We can all use a hair-drier next to a sink full of water, and rely on the surge protector in the outlet to prevent fires and electrical shorts, but this is impossible on an airplane? Idea: run the transponder off a small battery, and change the battery every flight.

3. Air traffic was controled using transponder transmissions. Technological advancements have not evolved to completely change this practice, so turning off the transponder is a logical alternative? Hey, Air traffic control: If you can give directions with transponders off, then you certainly should be able to give directions with them on.

in a congested airspace it would be better to turn it off then to let it produce in accurate

what if it started to transmit the tail number of another aircraft in the area

2. the transponder is not terribly well made. We can all use a hair-drier next to a sink full of water, and rely on the surge protector in the outlet to prevent fires and electrical shorts, but this is impossible on an airplane? Idea: run the transponder off a small battery, and change the battery every flight.

newer aircraft has a fusible link but once it has been activated there is no

turning it back on again

3. Air traffic was controlled using transponder transmissions.

the transponder sends out an assigned signal whatever traffic control assigns to the aircraft

once the crew dials in the frequency and hit indt the tail number of

the plane shows up on the screen this way they know who is who

so if all other planes in the area had proper signals sent out

and one did not they would still know which is which

in controlled airspace

 

[Rat in the Hat]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. The aircraft manufacturers are supposed to spend millions of dollars designing a transponder that can't be shut off. Then the airlines will spend even more millions retrofitting them to all their planes in service. All because ONE plane lost transponder signal and disappeared??

Will passengers be happy when all that cost gets passed on to them?

And, the planes will have to be rotated out of service to be fitted. When a flight is cancelled because the plane is in the hanger, will the passengers who can't get where they want to be say, "Oh, no problem. At least I won't vanish."

I'd be willing to bet their language will be far more 'colorful'.

 

[Chuckt]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. The aircraft manufacturers are supposed to spend millions of dollars designing a transponder that can't be shut off. Then the airlines will spend even more millions retrofitting them to all their planes in service. All because ONE plane lost transponder signal and disappeared??

Will passengers be happy when all that cost gets passed on to them?

And, the planes will have to be rotated out of service to be fitted. When a flight is cancelled because the plane is in the hanger, will the passengers who can't get where they want to be say, "Oh, no problem. At least I won't vanish."

I'd be willing to bet their language will be far more 'colorful'.

They just need a few contractors to work on the planes for half an hour.
It will save millions keeping countries from looking for a pin in a hay stack.
More people will fly knowing it is safer making the airlines moneyy.

 

[jon_berzerk]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. The aircraft manufacturers are supposed to spend millions of dollars designing a transponder that can't be shut off. Then the airlines will spend even more millions retrofitting them to all their planes in service. All because ONE plane lost transponder signal and disappeared??

Will passengers be happy when all that cost gets passed on to them?

And, the planes will have to be rotated out of service to be fitted. When a flight is cancelled because the plane is in the hanger, will the passengers who can't get where they want to be say, "Oh, no problem. At least I won't vanish."

I'd be willing to bet their language will be far more 'colorful'.

All because ONE plane lost transponder signal

apparently and at a time when

we do not why it was shutoff or cutoff for that matter

 

[Rat in the Hat]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. The aircraft manufacturers are supposed to spend millions of dollars designing a transponder that can't be shut off. Then the airlines will spend even more millions retrofitting them to all their planes in service. All because ONE plane lost transponder signal and disappeared??

Will passengers be happy when all that cost gets passed on to them?

And, the planes will have to be rotated out of service to be fitted. When a flight is cancelled because the plane is in the hanger, will the passengers who can't get where they want to be say, "Oh, no problem. At least I won't vanish."

I'd be willing to bet their language will be far more 'colorful'.

They just need a few contractors to work on the planes for half an hour.
It will save millions keeping countries from looking for a pin in a hay stack.
More people will fly knowing it is safer making the airlines moneyy.

It takes at least 1/2 hour just to start filling out all the air directives paperwork.

How many times before this have countries had to look for a missing jet?

And most people don't give a crap about that kind of safety. They only care about getting the kids to Disney without the plane falling out of the air.

 

[jon_berzerk]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. The aircraft manufacturers are supposed to spend millions of dollars designing a transponder that can't be shut off. Then the airlines will spend even more millions retrofitting them to all their planes in service. All because ONE plane lost transponder signal and disappeared??

Will passengers be happy when all that cost gets passed on to them?

And, the planes will have to be rotated out of service to be fitted. When a flight is cancelled because the plane is in the hanger, will the passengers who can't get where they want to be say, "Oh, no problem. At least I won't vanish."

I'd be willing to bet their language will be far more 'colorful'.

They just need a few contractors to work on the planes for half an hour.
It will save millions keeping countries from looking for a pin in a hay stack.
More people will fly knowing it is safer making the airlines moneyy.

in the aircraft world nothing is that easy or that cheap

everything down to a basic nut has to be certified by the FAA

 

[Chuckt]

A couple of facts...

Fuselage width 20 ft 4 in (6.20 m)
Wingspan 199 ft 11 in
Tail height 60 ft 9 in (18.5 m)
Length 209 ft 1 in (63.7 m)
Wing sweepback 31.64°

Boeing 777 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How do you get a 70 by 40 foot object out of this??? Any guesses?

 

[Chuckt]

A couple of facts...

Fuselage width 20 ft 4 in (6.20 m)
Wingspan 199 ft 11 in
Tail height 60 ft 9 in (18.5 m)
Length 209 ft 1 in (63.7 m)
Wing sweepback 31.64°

Boeing 777 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How do you get a 70 by 40 foot object out of this??? Any guesses?

I am guessing that they found the middle section where the wings meet the fuselage if they found anything at all. Why didn't it sink then? These are two reasons leading me not to believe it.

 

[Pop23]

a new lead

A Chinese satellite has spotted a large object along a broad stretch of ocean where officials hope to find a Malaysia Airlines plane that has been missing for more than two weeks, Malaysia's defense minister said Saturday.

link

??

Here is a closer image:

That's blood!

Terrorists or the UCLA volleyball team just got the roses I sent them for valentines day?

 

[wavingrl]

not certain this is relevant--but whatever issues with the transponder may be--what about this?

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 Did Not Have An $11 Computer Upgrade That Could Have Provided Key Satellite Data To Aid Search

<
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, which disappeared March 8, lacked a simple computer upgrade that could have made a world of difference by providing crucial satellite data to the unprecedented international search effort, which entered its thirteenth day Thursday.





The upgrade, which Malaysia Airlines decided not to purchase, has a wholesale price of only $10.90 for each flight. The upgrade for a system called Swift could have continued to send flight data by satellite even after MH370&#8217;s transponder and Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS, were switched off, The Washington Post reported on Thursday, citing a satellite industry official with knowledge about the equipment.

According to investigators, the transponder and the ACARS on the plane -- which went missing with 239 people on board on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing -- were deliberately turned off before the plane is suspected to have continued flying for another seven hours. However, if MH370&#8217;s Swift system had been upgraded, it could have sent information on the plane&#8217;s engine performance, fuel consumption, speed, altitude and direction, even if the transponder and ACARS were disabled, the Post reported.

&#8220;When ACARS is turned off, Swift continues on. If you configure Swift to track engine data, that data will be streamed off the plane. It continues to be powered up while the aircraft is powered up,&#8221; the official, who compared the Swift system to a mobile phone sending data to a satellite, told the Post.

In 2009, satellite data from a similar computer upgrade helped investigators find an Air France jet, which had crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. Thanks to data provided by the upgrade, investigators were able to quickly narrow their search area to a radius of about 40 miles in the Atlantic Ocean, the Post reported.

The full package of the Swift system is used by many major airlines, and the details it provides are authorized by international aviation guidelines and required equipment for airlines that frequently fly the North Atlantic corridor between the U.S. and Europe. However, according to the satellite industry official, there are no such requirements for planes flying other corridors elsewhere in the world.

Asked why an airline might decide not to buy a relatively inexpensive piece of technology, Zainul Zawawi, vice president for North America operations at Malaysia Airlines, told the Post: &#8220;Every pound on an aircraft is fuel consumed. As in all matters, it always comes down to cost.&#8221;

The search effort for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight, which is reportedly the largest in aviation history, now covers about 2.24 million square nautical miles of the Indian Ocean, ranging from the west coast of Malaysia to the waters off Perth, Australia.>

~~~~~~~~
US attorneys have arrived in Beijing--I would think there are many issues clearly identified already and more to come.

Certain there is 'some' reason--that Malaysia Airlines can defend its decision not to add the $11 upgrade. Certain there is a reason why they should have done this.

Since the world of regulating air travel is unknown to me--I can only theorize that those involved must have some serious discussions on standards for design and operations of air craft.

Lots of talk yesterday about precautions taken for cargo such as lithium batteries. What was said is not clear to me today--generally somewhere in each of these discussions it is noted that in the US the issue has been addressed. Somewhat reassuring but should the occasion arise--US citizen, any individual working overseas--should also have a similar sense of security. What I have heard about control of aircraft in Southeast Asia--very disturbing. Many places where planes can fly undetected. China seems to be the big dog in the area--maybe they can light a fire under some of the others.

 

[wavingrl]

I haven't caught up on the 'Breaking News'--rehash of all that has been said every day.

Sounds like even though the US military allocated $4million for this and where they even got that much $ is a good question---the US will be involved to the end. $8 million, 10 million--more? I suppose Congress or the POTUS can authorize additional funds--I really can't imagine the US saying, 'We won't spend another dime'. Plenty of response from the global community if that does happen.

The amount the US has authorized would be spent by April.

We probably need to be preparing to move assets to Europe--certain there will be crises across the globe that will require US involvement in the coming months.

 

[wavingrl]

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 could spur air safety changes - CNN.com

All of these ideas sound reasonable to me. Thousands of reasons why these things cannot and should not be done--I am certain of that.

<(CNN) -- Cameras in the cockpit. Real-time streaming of communications and flight information. Increased capacity flight data and voice recorders. Transponders that detach on impact and float.

Once the mystery of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is solved, there are changes in air safety that might result from the lessons of the disappearance of a jumbo jetliner in the age of instant communications.

The technologies -- each of which has its supporters and its detractors -- come into question as the search for Flight 370 enters its third week. Here's a look at some possible technological changes:

Camera images beamed from cockpit to ground

Investigators would be able to see and hear all that transpires in the cockpit.



Former American Airlines pilot Mark Weiss and other experts agree that images could prove highly important during investigations.

The National Transportation Safety Board has for years campaigned for cockpit video, arguing that images would have helped it solve what happened in crashes like that of EgyptAir 990 in 1999, which the agency concluded was a deliberate act by the co-pilot. A camera would have clarified who was in the cockpit and what was happening.

Opponents, however, are not ready to welcome Big Brother in the sky. Many pilots -- and unions that represents them -- worry about an invasion of privacy.

"Years ago there was an American Airlines flight that took off out of Chicago and an engine came off the wing, and that airplane went right into the ground," Weiss told CNN. "They had a camera on that airplane, and people were able to see inside the airplane exactly what was happening to them."

Union officials have said that having a camera monitor what pilots do would affect their ability to perform.

Longer life for batteries powering locator beacons

The hunt for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is two weeks old. That means it's near the halfway mark in the minimum battery life for the pinging beacon device on flight recorders.

When the expected battery life runs out, possibly around April 6, the job of finding the flight data and cockpit voice recorders -- to which the beacons are attached -- will get significantly harder

And, thereby, so will the job of solving the mystery of Flight 370.>

Every commercial airplane is required to have pingers -- technically called underwater locator beacons -- to help locate lost aircraft. One is attached to the flight data recorder; another to the cockpit voice recorder.

The depletion of a device's battery will not wipe out data, however. Data has been known to survive years on modern recorders in harsh sea water conditions.

The battery life on the beacons has been a hot subject since the crash of Air France Flight 447 in 2009. The flight was carrying 228 people when it disappeared from radar between South America and Africa en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. It took two years to find the aircraft's flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder in oceanic mountainous terrain under 13,000 feet of water.

The battery died before searchers could locate the wreckage. Since then, regulators and the airline industry have undertaken efforts to increase the beacon battery life from 30 to 90 days. There are also efforts to require pingers to be attached to aircraft airframes, making it easier to locate wreckage.

The next-generation pingers emit pings that can be heard 6 to 10 miles away, said Anish Patel, president of beacon manufacturer Dukane Seacom Inc.

Uplinking information from plane to satellite before a crash

The Air France crash spurred U.S. aviation safety officials to look into uplinking critical flight data to orbiting satellites from airplanes flying across oceans.
>