Man Cannot Be Suitably Moral or Good without God. Here's why:

[Slade3200]

So which god have you substituted for the real One you discarded? Whichever one is was is far inferior.

God to me is like Infinite, it’s a higher power which we can not fully understand, it’s the unknown. What makes you so confident that you’ve found the One true God?

 

[Slade3200]

If you were raised Catholic as well, then you learned at a very young age that 'Fear of the Lord' did not mean we were to be frightened--it means that we treat and approach God with reverent awe. (Dig into the etymology of the biblical use of the word translated as 'fear'.)

Did you read the sermon I posted. Did that sound like reverent awe to you?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Except religious humans. We're the only ones who want to kill each other.

All those religious people killing each other every weekend in Chicago churches and elsewhere. Yeah, it's God 's fault. He taught us how to kill each other in the Garden of Eden...

 

[Slade3200]

I wasn't raised to take the Bible literally. Not even my Catholic grandmother was raised to take the Bible literally. Are you aware that only thirty percent of the population take the Bible literally. (Down from around forty percent in my grandmother's day.)

Hebrew does not translate well into English and the Greek and the Latin are not perfect either. What dismays me is that people read the English, shrug and dismiss it as fantasy. Rabbis taught the Bible is to be studied not read--and a life-long study at that. That is the second problem. People decide they can read and understand. Not only does the Bible take study in and of itself, so do the languages, histories, and cultures of that time. A study of literature is very helpful.

I am not talking about you here, because you appear to have read and mulled over the Bible. But so many today do a scan reading through the Bible and jump to shallow conclusions. Some conclude everyone has always taken the Bible literally, which is not the case. Some conclude is is simply a book of fantasy or fairy tales. We should be able to read through the Bible and identify Just So stories (parts of Genesis); plays (Job); folklore, legend, etc. This does not diminish any account--indeed it does much to clarify the intent, purpose, and teaching/instruction being given.

I continue to study the Bible for the very reasons you just listed. I think it is an amazing historical document and there is much to learn from it. Many amazing moral and historical lessons.

However if you can’t take it literally then how can you call it the word of God? How is it any more the word of God than experiencing the beauty of a rainbow or a first kiss or the night sky?

 

[Meriweather]

My ancestors are from Spain. The reason I was born Catholic is because my ancestors had to believe, or die.

Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. Go back a few generations from that time. You will find that your next set of ancestors had to accept the religion of those in charge or die.

You are no longer Catholic. You no longer believe. What is the problem?

 

[Meriweather]

You are denying the horrors that caused you to be Catholic.

And the horrors that caused me to be American. What do you bet somewhere in our far distant past our ancestors faced the horrors of cannibalism? Far from denying horrors, I accept them while at the same time accepting the blessings that are also available to me--and were available to my ancestors.

Another old saying: Two people look out through the bars. One sees the mud and one sees the stars.

You like the mud. I tend towards both. Stars and bright and sparkly but things live and grow in the mud. The mud has potential.

 

[Meriweather]

Did you read the sermon I posted. Did that sound like reverent awe to you?

No. Don't feel the need for your version of hell. Besides, what does hell have to do with how to live life? The words of life come from Christ, not from hell.

 

[Feeding Crows]

All those religious people killing each other every weekend in Chicago churches and elsewhere. Yeah, it's God 's fault. He taught us how to kill each other in the Garden of Eden...

exactly.

 

[Slade3200]

No. Don't feel the need for your version of hell. Besides, what does hell have to do with how to live life? The words of life come from Christ, not from hell.

It’s not my version. I didn’t write the sermon. But it shows how the church used to portray God and this mighty being holding his followers over the pit of hell. One slip from us mortals and we get dropped into the fiery pit for eternity. It’s a perfect example of how the structure of the religion is set up to yield fear and power over people which is why religious groups, especially the Catholics have yielded so much power and money through our history.

It’s a nice spin to say we aren’t taking it literally, softens the harsh and outdated Bible verses and gives room to interpret anything in a positive light. This is well and good but I don’t see how you can call it the word of God if you can’t take it literally. I would think if God existed in the form that you believe, his word would be clear and true and undeniable. Fact is, the Bible was written by man, and man’s flaws are resounding within it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

exactly.

In other words, you're not to be taken seriously...

 

[Feeding Crows]

And the horrors that caused me to be American. What do you bet somewhere in our far distant past our ancestors faced the horrors of cannibalism? Far from denying horrors, I accept them while at the same time accepting the blessings that are also available to me--and were available to my ancestors.

Another old saying: Two people look out through the bars. One sees the mud and one sees the stars.

You like the mud. I tend towards both. Stars and bright and sparkly but things live and grow in the mud. The mud has potential.

Stop blaming others for the horrors you promote.

 

[Meriweather]

However if you can’t take it literally then how can you call it the word of God?

Have you gotten to the part where the Bible reminds us that God's ways are not our ways?

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

I have chinchillas. I do talk to them, but I have a sneaking suspicion they haven't a clue that I love them and find them adorable. However, they know exactly what I mean when I shake the raisin box. (And that probably doesn't translate into the concept of love.)

Catholic school taught me that God did not literally write or dictate anything in the Bible. Instead, the Bible is inspired by God, but written by man. Further, it has been translated by man. The best we can do is look for the ideal behind the account, the lesson the original author had for his original audience. I also recommend accepting that no one should consider everything in the Bible is about them. For example, we don't all need to build arks. Or go to Nineveh.

 

[Feeding Crows]

In other words, you're not to be taken seriously...

fook no. You're the lassie here.

 

[Meriweather]

How is it any more the word of God than experiencing the beauty of a rainbow or a first kiss or the night sky?

Does experiencing a rainbow or the night sky inspire change in your life? Does the rainbow or a starry night make you a better person?

 

[Feeding Crows]

I showed that the pope apologized. For a little of the shit.

Did anybody read that?

 

[Feeding Crows]

I see double rainbows every day.

 

[Vastator]

"Conscience is a burden we choose to bear. Morality is the lie we tell ourselves to make its bearing easier. There have been many times in my life when I have wished it was not so. But it is so."- Nicomo Cosca

 

[The Irish Ram]

fook no. You're the lassie here.

If you think it is Christians, walking out of church on Sun and roaming the streets shooting down kids and doing drive bys before going home for Sunday dinner, then you really aren't to be taken seriously...

 

[Feeding Crows]

If you think it is Christians, walking out of church on Sun and roaming the streets shooting down kids and doing drive bys before going home for Sunday dinner, then you really aren't to be taken seriously...

no, that's ridiculous. But Christians killed all of your ancestors and forced you to be Christian, or die. That's absolute truth.

 

[Vastator]

no, that's ridiculous. But Christians killed all of your ancestors and forced you to be Christian, or die. That's absolute truth.

Truth...