Mandatory vaccines for kids in California: no personal or religious exemptions

[ChrisL]

This is a really hard one for me. I'm torn. I realize that vaccination is very important and has saved thousands or millions of lives. I do not like the idea of government forced vaccinations though!!!

It was what you call forced for a very long time.

We were all lined up at school and vaccinated. The only way a child didn't get it was because it already had the vaccination. It was convenient for the parents. No one had to take time off from work to take us to get the vaccination. It didn't cost anything to the parents beyond their normal property taxes. The parents didn't have to keep a record of the vaccinations. It was already at the school.

It's how we eradicated some childhood diseases.

It stopped in the reagan years.

Link? I was born in 1978, so I'm not really familiar with the "Reagan" years or government mandated vaccinations.

 

[ChrisL]

California Legislature passes mandatory vaccination bill - LA Times

About time. Your child has no constitutional right to threaten mine at school because you are to lazy or too uninformed to know the truth. Keep them home, home school them, or get them vaccinated.

End of story.

if your kid has been vaccinated what threat is that to yours

isnt that the frikkin point of getting vaccinated in the first place

to avoid the threat

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, newborns and people with immune deficiency diseases are placed at risk by people who are not vaccinated. This is also just ONE reason why I'm against illegal immigration. They are a health risk.

 

[ChrisL]

Schools dictate that you have to wear a shirt and shoes when you come to school. Jesus H conservatism is like a ball and chain locked to the leg of the sane people of the Earth and we have to drag them along every single step.

As was said in a post above, its time to grow up. Your rights end at the point they harm someone else.

And is the government going to pay when children do actually have a bad reaction to a vaccine? Because that does happen sometimes. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is probably the reason why vaccinations are NOT government mandated. There are risks, however I agree the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

On the afternoon of June 19, a fisherman spotted Bradstreet’s lifeless body lying in the Broad River in the tiny town of Chimney Rock, N.C. He had a gunshot wound to his chest, authorities said. A gun was found in the water nearby.

That’s about all that everyone can agree on.

Like his research, Bradstreet’s death has become a Rorschach test in which his supporters see a conspiracy, while most everyone else — including law enforcement — sees a slow downward slide towards suicide.

The Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office said it is investigating Bradstreet’s death, but that the wound appears to have been self-inflicted.

• Anti-vaccine doctor behind ‘dangerous’ autism therapy found dead The Washington Post

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bradstreet killed himself in remorse for how is research was misused.

 

[ChrisL]

I am totally pro vaccination. I am just not pro government mandating these things. Besides, if you liberals were so concerned with the spread of disease, you would be opposed to illegal immigration, totally opposed to it.

CDC Warning Immigrant Children Could Be Spreading This New Mystery Virus In Public Schools

CDC - General Guidelines - Immigrant and Refugee Health

On average, more than 50,000 refugees relocate to the United States annually. 1 They come from diverse regions of the world and bring with them health risks and diseases common to all refugee populations as well as some that may be unique to specific populations. The purpose of this document is to describe general and optional testing components that do not fall into the specific disease categories of these guidelines. These guidelines are based upon principles of best practices, with references to primary published reports when available.

This document differs from others in the guidelines, which recommend screening for specific disorders. The guidelines in this document include testing for abnormalities or clinical conditions that are not specific disorders but are suggestive of underlying disorders. The tests in this document may indicate either acute or chronic disorders and generally indicate the need for further testing and evaluation to identify the condition causing the abnormality. Testing for chronic health conditions is important, since these conditions are common in newly arriving refugees, both children and adults. 2 Since refugee populations are diverse and are predisposed to diseases that may differ from those found in the U.S. population, the differential diagnosis and initial evaluation of abnormalities are discussed to assist the clinician.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Absolutely a brain-dead good decision....why the fuk aren't all states doing this???

Freedom

Not when it is stupidity. You have no freedom to endanger my child. GTP.

Get your child vaccinated and you won't have any worries.

But don't try to force others to vaccinate theirs.

Damn you people are stupid!

 

[Treeshepherd]

Schools dictate that you have to wear a shirt and shoes when you come to school. Jesus H conservatism is like a ball and chain locked to the leg of the sane people of the Earth and we have to drag them along every single step.

As was said in a post above, its time to grow up. Your rights end at the point they harm someone else.

You keep trying to link vaccine skepticism with conservatism, or religion. This is not a right-wing sacred cow, or an issue where under-educated hicks are brainwashed by a cult leader, as you seem to suggest. Here in California, the highest opt-out rates are in wealthy socially-liberal highly-educated areas like Marin County, or Beverly Hills, and also in areas populated by a lot of independent health-conscious hippies like Santa Cruz, Mendocino and Humboldt counties.

It is time to grow up. This is the age of access to information. The WWII and baby boomer generations were raised in a medical paradigm where doctor always knew best and patients didn't make decisions for themselves. As PaintMyHouse says, my mother had a different world view where we pay people to figure health issues out for us. Welcome to the democratization of the digital age where things are slowly changing to the point where a doctor becomes a resource rather than an absolute authority.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Most Mexicans are better vaccinated than we are, ChrisL.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What the Lonestars don't realize by not vaccinating his children he is putting at risk those who can't be vaccinated.

 

[Treeshepherd]

What the Lonestars don't realize by not vaccinating his children he is putting at risk those who can't be vaccinated.

Depends on which vaccine you're talking about. The argument for tetanus vaccination has nothing to do with herd immunity. Despite all the news stories to the contrary, studies suggest that people vaccinated for pertussis can and do still spread the disease even if they don't show symptoms: Baboon Study Reveals New Shortcoming of Pertussis Vaccine - Scientific American
Others, like papillomavirus are spread behaviorally (having unprotected sex with an infected person).

As far as babies go, why would you take a 1 year old to Disneyland? That's stupid. The kid isn't even going to remember it, and there's probably cold and flu germs on every railing and seat, not to mention skin diseases like staph. It's equally stupid to take a bay to a mall, or into an elementary classroom full of snotty nosed brats, or to let some stranger get in your baby's face or touch the baby with his grubby unwashed hands.

 

[Dana7360]

If your kids are vaccinated, then they're not being endangered, are they?

I think that is the point.....

People are concerned about the stuff that is being pumped into their children.

I don't know enough about it to say anything about the science.

I suppose my question is...if you keep your kid at home do you still have to pay the mill levy associated with school taxes.

Or is it that you have to keep them at home and still pay regardless ?

Yes you still pay the taxes because you enjoy the benefits of having an educated, capable populace around you every day (for the most part anyway, sure there's some idiots out there)

That does not wash. The so-called educated populace gets to carry their fair share.

The child you educate today with your taxes is the doctor who will save your life 25 years from now.

Do you like all the advances in science and medicine? You paid for the first K-12 years of it. Do you like to have engineers who can invent things like GPS and Navigation Systems? You paid for the first K-12 years of it.

I can go on but I'm sure you get the point.

There is no point.

I don't educated those kids.

You can kid yourself into thinking what you said was true.

If you read most sociology books, they will explain to you that schools really are nothing much more than organized public babysitting services.

No you don't educate any kids. You don't have the ability or the expertise to do it.

You do pay for it through state and federal taxes. From paying for the education to paying for the infrastructure like a school and the roads needed to get to the schools.

You can tell that garbage to the next doctor who saves your life. They spent most of their lives learning how to save your life. Yours and everyone else's taxes made it possible.

You can call schools any name you want but you wouldn't be able read or write a post on a message board with out that school you went to.

 

[Dana7360]

This is a really hard one for me. I'm torn. I realize that vaccination is very important and has saved thousands or millions of lives. I do not like the idea of government forced vaccinations though!!!

It was what you call forced for a very long time.

We were all lined up at school and vaccinated. The only way a child didn't get it was because it already had the vaccination. It was convenient for the parents. No one had to take time off from work to take us to get the vaccination. It didn't cost anything to the parents beyond their normal property taxes. The parents didn't have to keep a record of the vaccinations. It was already at the school.

It's how we eradicated some childhood diseases.

It stopped in the reagan years.

Link? I was born in 1978, so I'm not really familiar with the "Reagan" years or government mandated vaccinations.

You were born the year I graduated from high school.

Eisenhower was president when I was born. Johnson, nixon, ford, Carter and reagan were presidents when I went to school. reagan was president my last 2 years of college.

I grew up in the results of FDR's new deal. Which meant I went to good public schools.

Things were done very differently then. No parents objected to vaccinations. Our parents were the kids who suffered things like polio, whooping cough and many other childhood diseases. They saw their siblings and friends die. They not only welcomed the vaccinations, they WANTED their kids vaccinated. My aunt had polio and so did my husband's mom. So the system was set up to vaccinate the kids at school.

I was one of those kids. I stood in line in the gym one year and cafeteria another year. It switched off and on depending on the year.

So were my siblings and everyone I know.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What the Lonestars don't realize by not vaccinating his children he is putting at risk those who can't be vaccinated.

Why can't they be vaccinated?

 

[Treeshepherd]

You can tell that garbage to the next doctor who saves your life. They spent most of their lives learning how to save your life.

Surgeons and emergency responders are the ones who typically save lives.

My understanding of a doctor visit is that typically they see you for about 15 or 20 minutes, and many speak English as a second language so there's a communication challenge. They feel pressured into making a clear diagnosis for a problem which is somewhat mysterious, and they also need to over-treat patients in order to cover their asses legally. It's difficult to gauge how commonly doctors misdiagnose patients (to say nothing of downright predatory medicine on a sheep-like clientele). This story says 12 million per year:

Each year in the U.S., approximately 12 million adults who seek outpatient medical care are misdiagnosed, according to a new study published in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety. This figure amounts to 1 out of 20 adult patients, and researchers say in half of those cases, the misdiagnosis has the potential to result in severe harm.12 million Americans misdiagnosed each year - CBS News

I haven't seen a doctor in about 26 years. I've been living in this body for 46 years and some professional is not going to see me for 20 minutes and suddenly become the expert on my health. I've been building up natural immunities and fighting off problems without the crutch of pharmaceuticals or antibiotics. My gut fauna at this point takes all germs to the mat and ground and pounds them into submission. But, since my strategy is a lifelong pursuit, it really doesn't apply to probably any of you. To take a person who has been processed their entire lives by the Healthcare Industrial Complex and to throw them into my world would be like taking a greenhouse plant raised on Ortho products and suddenly plant it outside during winter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Even when explained carefully and clearly, the Lonestars and Treeshepherds claim they don't get it. OK, it's on them they don't get it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I think that is the point.....

People are concerned about the stuff that is being pumped into their children.

I don't know enough about it to say anything about the science.

I suppose my question is...if you keep your kid at home do you still have to pay the mill levy associated with school taxes.

Or is it that you have to keep them at home and still pay regardless ?

Yes you still pay the taxes because you enjoy the benefits of having an educated, capable populace around you every day (for the most part anyway, sure there's some idiots out there)

That does not wash. The so-called educated populace gets to carry their fair share.

The child you educate today with your taxes is the doctor who will save your life 25 years from now.

Do you like all the advances in science and medicine? You paid for the first K-12 years of it. Do you like to have engineers who can invent things like GPS and Navigation Systems? You paid for the first K-12 years of it.

I can go on but I'm sure you get the point.

There is no point.

I don't educated those kids.

You can kid yourself into thinking what you said was true.

If you read most sociology books, they will explain to you that schools really are nothing much more than organized public babysitting services.

No you don't educate any kids. You don't have the ability or the expertise to do it.

You do pay for it through state and federal taxes. From paying for the education to paying for the infrastructure like a school and the roads needed to get to the schools.

You can tell that garbage to the next doctor who saves your life. They spent most of their lives learning how to save your life. Yours and everyone else's taxes made it possible.

You can call schools any name you want but you wouldn't be able read or write a post on a message board with out that school you went to.

There is no point to be made.

I can promise you most people I know are quite capable of educating their children if they want to.

I overpay for it and I don't get very good value. And that is my point. If my kids don't go to school because CA does not want them there (no vaccinations), why should I pay taxes for something they won't allow me to utilize. Those conditions were not on the taxes I pay.

Tell what garbage ? You make no sense. They spent a lot of money learning how to save my life. My taxes didn't send them to medical school. They simply paid for an institution they were lucky to survive.

As to your last statement.....are you claiming that if a child does not attend school (pubic or private) they won't be able to read or write ? Please make sure you answer very clearly.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Even when explained carefully and clearly, the Lonestars and Treeshepherds claim they don't get it. OK, it's on them they don't get it.

You haven't explained shit to me. I asked you a question and you haven't answered it.

Why can't they be vaccinated?

Who is stopping you or anyone else from getting a vaccine?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lonestar, whether who you sell to at your place of business or about vaccinations, the explanations have been clear and careful for ones such as you who are concrete learners. You simply don't want to learn.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Lonestar, whether who you sell to at your place of business or about vaccinations, the explanations have been clear and careful for ones such as you who are concrete learners. You simply don't want to learn.

I have yet see you explain anything. I keep asking the question and you keep dodging.

Either answer the question or admit you a liar.