Marxism

[impuretrash]

I tried reading the Communist Manifesto once, because I was curious. But it was dreadfully boring so I gave up.

It was written for people who already have a foundation in the workings of the philosophy.

Under marxism, what would happen to the house I own, that I bought and paid for with my own labor? Would I not be allowed to pass it on to my children?

The International Workingmen's Association, The right of inheritance

Sounds like a terrible idea to me, and it's no wonder Marx warns against abolishing the right of inheritance too early in the revolution, first you'd have to convince people to abandon loyalty to family.

 

[Thunderbird]

Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

Am I permitted to speak freely contrary to the wishes of the bourgeois dictatorship?

You are doing so right now!

Why are you terrified of my question: Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

I am trying to explain to you the concept of dictatorship of the proletariat.

Actually you are just running away from a simple question. Can you answer with a yes or no?

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby... zzzzzzzz

Marxist dogma is tiresome and absurd. Of course people can produce ideas, books, and art at odds with the ruling class. Such works may become popular.

 

[EGR one]

If he works for someone else, he gets what he agrees to take in exchange for his labor, minus the government's cut.

Which is less than the full value for which he produces. Hence the reason I say that in a Marxist system he receives the full value for what he produces......minus taxes of course. Which in a Marxist system would be negligible. The size of our government is a consequence of our productive system.

Of course, it is less than the full value of what he produces. Why hire someone if his/her labor is not beneficial to you? Production requires capital, and the people who provide that capital are also entitled to a share of the production. Why provide capital if you get nothing in return for the risk to your capital?

 

[EGR one]

As long as the oppressed class – in our case, therefore, the proletariat – is not yet ripe for its self-liberation, so long will it, in its majority, recognize the existing order of society as the only possible one and remain politically the tall of the capitalist class, its extreme left wing.
Origins of the Family- Chapter IX

Common sense recognizes that capitalism is the only system of economics that rewards those who educate themselves and work hard. The capitalist class is anyone with a dollar in his pocket, and will spend that dollar in furtherance of his perceived self interest.

The beggar on the street who receives a dollar from a compassionate person is a capitalist? Lol

And you talk of common sense.

He is a capitalist once he has that dollar.

You think a dollar used to purchase a commodity which will be consumed immediately is capital?

People who lack an understanding of the system in which they partake in every day have no business discussing one completely foreign to them.

I think you have just admitted defeat.

 

[EGR one]

Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

Am I permitted to speak freely contrary to the wishes of the bourgeois dictatorship?

You are doing so right now!

Why are you terrified of my question: Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

I am trying to explain to you the concept of dictatorship of the proletariat.

You are only thinking in literal terms. You're dull. If you want to understand you are going to have to do some thinking for yourself.

Here is the concept explained. You should really start from the beginning but this should give you a sense of the concept.

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch.

The German Ideology. Karl Marx 1845

Apparently, you are of the opinion that the average person is too damn dumb to think anything but what the ruling class tells them to think. I need to inform you that left wing loons are still only about 20% of our population, and the majority of the remainder are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves.

As a free person, I have choices about how I utilize my knowledge, skills, and experience to benefit me and mine. I can choose to become an independent enterprise. That requires me to provide my own capital, my own management, and my own labor. That also means that I get to keep the full value of my labor, less government's cut. I can also choose to join with others and combine our capital, management, and labor. That also means that the group must determine what each members capital and labor is worth to the enterprise. Of course, members with knowledge and skills are worth more to the enterprise than those without knowledge and skills. The value of labor is not a set value.

The choice most workers make is to seek employment with an enterprise that already exists, and where capital and management are already provided. That means their choice is limited as to what value the enterprise sets on their labor. They can accept or reject the deal.

Labor is rarely independent of capital, and cannot be considered without the consideration of capital.

 

[undertherqadar]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

 

[Tehon]

Common sense recognizes that capitalism is the only system of economics that rewards those who educate themselves and work hard. The capitalist class is anyone with a dollar in his pocket, and will spend that dollar in furtherance of his perceived self interest.

The beggar on the street who receives a dollar from a compassionate person is a capitalist? Lol

And you talk of common sense.

He is a capitalist once he has that dollar.

You think a dollar used to purchase a commodity which will be consumed immediately is capital?

People who lack an understanding of the system in which they partake in every day have no business discussing one completely foreign to them.

I think you have just admitted defeat.

I consider it a win when I can further my understanding of something. In that respect, yea, I admitted defeat when it became apparent that you hadn't the basic knowledge of what capital is. Be proud.

 

[Tehon]

Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

Am I permitted to speak freely contrary to the wishes of the bourgeois dictatorship?

You are doing so right now!

Why are you terrified of my question: Do dictatorships permit speech contrary to the wishes of the dictators?

I am trying to explain to you the concept of dictatorship of the proletariat.

Actually you are just running away from a simple question. Can you answer with a yes or no?

The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby... zzzzzzzz

Marxist dogma is tiresome and absurd. Of course people can produce ideas, books, and art at odds with the ruling class. Such works may become popular.

So why start a thread about something you have no knowledge of and no interest in? What's the point?

 

[Tehon]

Apparently, you are of the opinion that the average person is too damn dumb to think anything but what the ruling class tells them to think. I need to inform you that left wing loons are still only about 20% of our population, and the majority of the remainder are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves.

Riiiiiight, you're a free thinker.

As a free person, I have choices about how I utilize my knowledge, skills, and experience to benefit me and mine. I can choose to become an independent enterprise. That requires me to provide my own capital, my own management, and my own labor. That also means that I get to keep the full value of my labor, less government's cut. I can also choose to join with others and combine our capital, management, and labor. That also means that the group must determine what each members capital and labor is worth to the enterprise. Of course, members with knowledge and skills are worth more to the enterprise than those without knowledge and skills. The value of labor is not a set value.

Your choices are based on the system, customs and laws you were born into. That were instituted by the ruling class of all the generations that preceded you.

 

[Tehon]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

I believe it wasn't until just recently that the right even admitted that we have a class structure in our society. And they probably don't even realize they admitted it. Lol

 

[ding]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

I believe it wasn't until just recently that the right even admitted that we have a class structure in our society. And they probably don't even realize they admitted it. Lol

^ dunning effect

 

[ding]

The beggar on the street who receives a dollar from a compassionate person is a capitalist? Lol

And you talk of common sense.

He is a capitalist once he has that dollar.

You think a dollar used to purchase a commodity which will be consumed immediately is capital?

People who lack an understanding of the system in which they partake in every day have no business discussing one completely foreign to them.

I think you have just admitted defeat.

I consider it a win when I can further my understanding of something. In that respect, yea, I admitted defeat when it became apparent that you hadn't the basic knowledge of what capital is. Be proud.

I don't believe he is the droid you are looking for, brother.

 

[ding]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

This poorly educated rube has read Marx.

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

 

[ding]

When Marx created a new type of socialism that supposedly enabled a population to make the change to communism it upset most socialists but was a bonanza for the Republican party. It gave Republicans their new battle cry: socialism leads to communism.

Socialism does not lead to Communism, it leads to the bottom for any nation that dabbles with it. The only variable is time, and that depends on how deep the nation dabbles.

Human beings are inherently lazy in both the desire to learn and/or labor. Socialism abets those bad traits Most human beings who have their basic needs met without effort on their part will be content to live that way.

I disagree that socialism does not lead to communism, but I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

"...socialism of any type and shade leads to a total destruction of the human spirit and to a leveling of mankind into death..."

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

Even FDR knew this.

"...The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit..."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Annual Message to Congress

"...As humanism in its development was becoming more and more materialistic, it also increasingly allowed concepts to be used first by socialism and then by communism, so that Karl Marx was able to say, in 1844, that "communism is naturalized humanism."

This statement has proved to be not entirely unreasonable. One does not see the same stones in the foundations of an eroded humanism and of any type of socialism: boundless materialism; freedom from religion and religious responsibility (which under Communist regimes attains the stage of antireligious dictatorship); concentration on social structures with an allegedly scientific approach. (This last is typical of both the Age of Enlightenment and of Marxism.) It is no accident that all of communism's rhetorical vows revolve around Man (with a capital M) and his earthly happiness. At first glance it seems an ugly parallel: common traits in the thinking and way of life of today's West and today's East? But such is the logic of materialistic development.

The interrelationship is such, moreover, that the current of materialism which is farthest to the left, and is hence the most consistent, always proves to be stronger, more attractive, and victorious. Humanism which has lost its Christian heritage cannot prevail in this competition. Thus during the past centuries and especially in recent decades, as the process became more acute, the alignment of forces was as follows: Liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism..."

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

^ worth the fifteen minute read

 

[ding]

I have a very complicated tool ...
It's called a ЛОМ

View attachment 177880

I'll give it to the stupid chatterbox of this branch, to deal with the matter

I have a very complicated tool that I got from a couple of Russians. Here it is.

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership. Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Tehon]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

I believe it wasn't until just recently that the right even admitted that we have a class structure in our society. And they probably don't even realize they admitted it. Lol

^ dunning effect

Are you a psychologist? Or just pretend to be one on the interwebs?

Trump vs. the global elite

 

[ding]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

I believe it wasn't until just recently that the right even admitted that we have a class structure in our society. And they probably don't even realize they admitted it. Lol

^ dunning effect

Are you a psychologist? Or just pretend to be one on the interwebs?

Trump vs. the global elite

No, if I were a psychologist I would have explained to you that your brain cannot live in conflict so you need to rationalize things to confirm your bias.

The reality is that what you just did was a textbook example of the dunning effect. Which is why you are not arguing that it wasn't.

 

[EGR one]

Apparently, you are of the opinion that the average person is too damn dumb to think anything but what the ruling class tells them to think. I need to inform you that left wing loons are still only about 20% of our population, and the majority of the remainder are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves.

Riiiiiight, you're a free thinker.

As a free person, I have choices about how I utilize my knowledge, skills, and experience to benefit me and mine. I can choose to become an independent enterprise. That requires me to provide my own capital, my own management, and my own labor. That also means that I get to keep the full value of my labor, less government's cut. I can also choose to join with others and combine our capital, management, and labor. That also means that the group must determine what each members capital and labor is worth to the enterprise. Of course, members with knowledge and skills are worth more to the enterprise than those without knowledge and skills. The value of labor is not a set value.

Your choices are based on the system, customs and laws you were born into. That were instituted by the ruling class of all the generations that preceded you.

Pure nonsense! What system, custom or law would prevent me from making the choice to start my own business, or joining with others to start a business? Obviously, there is no system, custom, or law that would prevent me from working for a business or another individual.

 

[Tehon]

Ten to one, the poorly educated rubes never read anything by Marx or Engels, just boogie men that faux "news" told them about. Marx Engels Soros, Alinsky etc, just trigger words.

I believe it wasn't until just recently that the right even admitted that we have a class structure in our society. And they probably don't even realize they admitted it. Lol

^ dunning effect

Are you a psychologist? Or just pretend to be one on the interwebs?

Trump vs. the global elite

No, if I were a psychologist I would have explained to you that your brain cannot live in conflict so you need to rationalize things to confirm your bias.

The reality is that what you just did was a textbook example of the dunning effect. Which is why you are not arguing that it wasn't.

Who doesn't do it?

I don't believe you are applying the dunning effect properly Dr.

 

[Tehon]

Apparently, you are of the opinion that the average person is too damn dumb to think anything but what the ruling class tells them to think. I need to inform you that left wing loons are still only about 20% of our population, and the majority of the remainder are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves.

Riiiiiight, you're a free thinker.

As a free person, I have choices about how I utilize my knowledge, skills, and experience to benefit me and mine. I can choose to become an independent enterprise. That requires me to provide my own capital, my own management, and my own labor. That also means that I get to keep the full value of my labor, less government's cut. I can also choose to join with others and combine our capital, management, and labor. That also means that the group must determine what each members capital and labor is worth to the enterprise. Of course, members with knowledge and skills are worth more to the enterprise than those without knowledge and skills. The value of labor is not a set value.

Your choices are based on the system, customs and laws you were born into. That were instituted by the ruling class of all the generations that preceded you.

Pure nonsense! What system, custom or law would prevent me from making the choice to start my own business, or joining with others to start a business? Obviously, there is no system, custom, or law that would prevent me from working for a business or another individual.

There is a legal framework for starting your business. That legal framework was developed by the ruling class over the course of generations.