Mass incarceration. Sessions says- Lock em up, throw away the key.

[danielpalos]

Fight the war on drugs as if it were a real war.

The right wing won't go for it, since real wars require real times of war tax rates.

The right wing likes to look, "fiscally tough".

 

[Billo_Really]

The courts decide who will have custody of the child when the couple separates. When you violate court orders even if it's concerning your own child, it's no different than violating any other court order.

But its not something you should go to prison over.

 

[Aries]

Build a wall?
I've heard the Mexicans are excellent tunnel builders

And we're pretty good at burying them alive inside their tunnels....that's the part you don't hear about.

A wall will not help. You can go over it, under it, around it.. and since it probably won't be built, it's not a problem. Drugs do not only enter the country through the Mexican boarder.
That being said- there is really no way to keep people from acquiring drugs. Locking up any citizen who's ever bought or sold is a ridiculous endeavor. The war on drugs is not being "won" and it never will be.

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

 

[OldLady]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And we're pretty good at burying them alive inside their tunnels....that's the part you don't hear about.

A wall will not help. You can go over it, under it, around it.. and since it probably won't be built, it's not a problem. Drugs do not only enter the country through the Mexican boarder.
That being said- there is really no way to keep people from acquiring drugs. Locking up any citizen who's ever bought or sold is a ridiculous endeavor. The war on drugs is not being "won" and it never will be.

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

 

[Billo_Really]

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

I don't think the courts should be so involved in peoples lives. I don't have an answer. But the only thing I want from government, is to stay the hell out of my daily life.

 

[Aries]

A wall will not help. You can go over it, under it, around it.. and since it probably won't be built, it's not a problem. Drugs do not only enter the country through the Mexican boarder.
That being said- there is really no way to keep people from acquiring drugs. Locking up any citizen who's ever bought or sold is a ridiculous endeavor. The war on drugs is not being "won" and it never will be.

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

I am sorry.

 

[OldLady]

A wall will not help. You can go over it, under it, around it.. and since it probably won't be built, it's not a problem. Drugs do not only enter the country through the Mexican boarder.
That being said- there is really no way to keep people from acquiring drugs. Locking up any citizen who's ever bought or sold is a ridiculous endeavor. The war on drugs is not being "won" and it never will be.

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

Sorry, Ray. It happens too much; it's a disease. The laws didn't stop it from happening, though, did it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The courts decide who will have custody of the child when the couple separates. When you violate court orders even if it's concerning your own child, it's no different than violating any other court order.

But its not something you should go to prison over.

I don't know what the actual penalties are, but I'm sure they do get some time. Kidnapping is a 20 year max sentence I believe.

In our society, courts make all the legal decisions. When you violate that decision, you break the law and are subject to whatever penalties are involved. Today girls and women have kids with guys they don't know well enough, and if the father has major anger issues, you don't want your kid anywhere near him. Same goes if he's a drug addict or hangs around shady and dangerous people.

 

[Aries]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

someone mentioned in china drug issues are not legal at all but medical

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

Sorry, Ray. It happens too much; it's a disease. The laws didn't stop it from happening, though, did it?

No it didn't, but I'm sure for many those laws do stop people. 50,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses last year in this country. Taking those laws away would probably escalate that to 200,000 a year or maybe more. I just don't see the advantage in that.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

It is easier to stop someone from violating or ignoring court orders than you think.

I was a court appointed child advocate for my step great-granddaughter. I made all legal decisions for her. I could drag either parent or both into court on behalf of the child. Child services do not need a court order to remove a child from a home. They just do it.

 

[leftwinger]

The courts decide who will have custody of the child when the couple separates. When you violate court orders even if it's concerning your own child, it's no different than violating any other court order.

But its not something you should go to prison over.

Could be a restraint order. The guy could have long rap sheet. Maybe he beat up mother? No liscense or insurance? child endangerment? Maybe took the kid and hid for weeks? You don't know.

Divorced or seperated stuff can end up exploding over many years.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

someone mentioned in china drug issues are not legal at all but medical

But you don't understand what the results are. There are no courts or lawyers. If you have illegal drugs in your system you go to rehabilitation. There is no defense. You don't get a lawyer. That means you work in one of China's mega factories. You are there for three years. Anyone who gets out and still uses drugs gets another three years. The door stops revolving at that point. A subsequent use is judged incurable and the factory has a worker for life. No appeal. It's not criminal. It's still medical. The drug offenders are not counted as part of the incarceration numbers. They are patients in rehabilitation.

You do understand the nature of the Chinese mega factories don't you?

 

[OldLady]

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

Sorry, Ray. It happens too much; it's a disease. The laws didn't stop it from happening, though, did it?

No it didn't, but I'm sure for many those laws do stop people. 50,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses last year in this country. Taking those laws away would probably escalate that to 200,000 a year or maybe more. I just don't see the advantage in that.

Focusing on the supply side instead of the consumer side would help. I'm afraid too many people with their wealth tied up in the drug trade pull a lot of weight into where our investigations head. It is as bad as the days of the Mob, only international.
At least around here, and probably everywhere, suppliers would be dead in the water without the mom and pop dealers who peddle their poison. Most of those mom and pop dealers around here are addicted. Treating the addiction and preventing young people from choosing that risky behavior in the first place has been ignored and defunded over and over where I live and the addiction rate and overdose rate is soaring. It's got to be a multi-sided approach, but just continuing to throw more folks in jail, then release them with $50 in their pocket and a bus ticket to "home" where everything is as fucked up as ever is NOT the answer.

 

[leftwinger]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

someone mentioned in china drug issues are not legal at all but medical

Right. They said they put them in labor camps screwing battery covers on toy dolls 12 hrs a day. Or they get shot and don't count as incarcerated.

A bad check does not put you in jail or prison. A long history of crimes and bad check (s) will do it. A stolen checkbook, buy a laptop, pawn for drugs is not victimless. Three victims right out of gate. All crimes have victims or potential victims. Try to keep a business open with bad checks and stolen credit cards flooding in. Don't ask ID......racial profiling!

 

[Aries]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

someone mentioned in china drug issues are not legal at all but medical

But you don't understand what the results are. There are no courts or lawyers. If you have illegal drugs in your system you go to rehabilitation. There is no defense. You don't get a lawyer. That means you work in one of China's mega factories. You are there for three years. Anyone who gets out and still uses drugs gets another three years. The door stops revolving at that point. A subsequent use is judged incurable and the factory has a worker for life. No appeal. It's not criminal. It's still medical. The drug offenders are not counted as part of the incarceration numbers. They are patients in rehabilitation.

You do understand the nature of the Chinese mega factories don't you?

I do, I don't think that people with drug problems should be used as laborers but I do like the medical instead of legal aspect

 

[OldLady]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

It is easier to stop someone from violating or ignoring court orders than you think.

I was a court appointed child advocate for my step great-granddaughter. I made all legal decisions for her. I could drag either parent or both into court on behalf of the child. Child services do not need a court order to remove a child from a home. They just do it.

I was a CPS worker who removed kids from homes. It can't happen without a court order. I hear in NY they have 72 hours to petition the court (maybe?) but not in Maine, or in most states I know of.

 

[Aries]

Yes it should, since a court has already decided that parent cannot be a legal guardian and they had to have a reason. Sometimes it's a damned good one. It has to do with child safety.

That is a child services issue, not a criminal one.

Granted, but how do you stop a guy (or gal) from ignoring a guardianship order/custody arrangement determined by the court? Child services cannot make any legal decisions; it is all done through the courts. Most of our laws are followed because reasonable people don't want to pay the consequences. If you've already lost your parental rights, what would those consequences be, if not incarceration? Just asking. If you've got a good idea, I'd love to hear it. It seems we are throwing too many people in jail. How do other countries handle it. Do they have opioid epidemics there, too? How are those countries without high incarceration rates doing it?

someone mentioned in china drug issues are not legal at all but medical

Right. They said they put them in labor camps screwing battery covers on toy dolls 12 hrs a day. Or they get shot and don't count as incarcerated.

A bad check does not out you in jail or prison. A long history of crimes and bad check (s) will do it. Astolen checkbook, buy a laptop, pawn for drugs is not victimless. Three victims right out if gate. All crimes have victims or potential victims. Try to keep a business open with bad checks and stolen credit cards flooding in. Don't ask ID......racial profiling!

i don't agree with using them as laborers

 

[danielpalos]

A wall will not help. You can go over it, under it, around it.. and since it probably won't be built, it's not a problem. Drugs do not only enter the country through the Mexican boarder.
That being said- there is really no way to keep people from acquiring drugs. Locking up any citizen who's ever bought or sold is a ridiculous endeavor. The war on drugs is not being "won" and it never will be.

the federal government is the largest purchaser of drugs in the entire world.

That's another thing I don't agree with- giving people jail time for drugs the government sells, like xanax.
Government locking up people for selling what they also sell is like a king pin taking out a hit on their competition lol

Well you may feel that way until tragedy hits your immediate family, then you will change your opinion. Trust me.

Taking a drug is a choice, no one makes you.
Should everything that is potentially harmful be illegal?
Alcohol, antifreeze, ant traps?

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, picture one of them laying in a box at a funeral home and ask yourself if you would still say "Oh well, it was his (her) choice!"

When you have that experience, it will change your mind. It did mine. Tortured memories last nearly a lifetime.

gun lovers may have the same dilemma.