Mass Shooting in Britain......4 men shot.....but...they have gun control...

[Liminal]

There was a mass shooting in Britain....and I notice it wasnt' covered by the U.S. Press...I guess that is because it would hamper obama's claim that Europe has gun control...

Now keep in mind...Britain had confiscation of guns, they have strict gun control laws, far more extreme than any here in the states and and they are a first world country, so the anti gunners can't say they are like Mexico so they can't enforce their gun laws......

Sorry, Mr. President, England Had a 'Mass Shooting' Saturday - The Truth About Guns

Four men shot in legs in Birmingham - BBC News

From the BBC report.......so no...it isn't from the gun blog...they just linked to it...

Four men were taken to hospital with bullet wounds to their legs after a shooting in Birmingham.

Police said they were called to the Costcutter shop in Great Hampton Row, north of the city centre, on Saturday.

Three men remain in hospital for treatment for their injuries, which are not thought to be life-threatening.

West Midlands Police refused to speculate on any motive for the attack. There were no arrests and no direct appeal for witnesses.


And again....this guy could have walked into any school or a movie theater........so no...gun control does not work..even in Britain...

What's Britain's murder rate again?

Britain the most violent country in Europe and even worse than South Africa and U.S.

The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.

In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

• The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
• It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
• The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
• It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.

But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents......

You seem to be conflating all violent crimes with homicides.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Does britain have murder control or gun control?

You guys keep telling us that they are the same thing. And again...4 guys shot.......apparently they don't have gun control either.....

And please...maybe you will answer this...

What stopped him from walking into a school?

What stopped him from walking into a theater?

Could you point out the poster who ever claimed that "gun control" will stop ALL shootings?

No, no they cant. Because he doesnt have internet access and lives in a corn field

 

[2aguy]

Gun ownership has been proven to save lives, Pogo. The statistics prove that to be true. When the criminal knows that the home owner has a gun? They usually move on.

Those figures are based on the police using weapons, not civilians.

Wrong. those studies are civilain self defense and no military or police are included....

 

[2aguy]

There was a mass shooting in Britain....and I notice it wasnt' covered by the U.S. Press...I guess that is because it would hamper obama's claim that Europe has gun control...

Now keep in mind...Britain had confiscation of guns, they have strict gun control laws, far more extreme than any here in the states and and they are a first world country, so the anti gunners can't say they are like Mexico so they can't enforce their gun laws......

Sorry, Mr. President, England Had a 'Mass Shooting' Saturday - The Truth About Guns

Four men shot in legs in Birmingham - BBC News

From the BBC report.......so no...it isn't from the gun blog...they just linked to it...

Four men were taken to hospital with bullet wounds to their legs after a shooting in Birmingham.

Police said they were called to the Costcutter shop in Great Hampton Row, north of the city centre, on Saturday.

Three men remain in hospital for treatment for their injuries, which are not thought to be life-threatening.

West Midlands Police refused to speculate on any motive for the attack. There were no arrests and no direct appeal for witnesses.


And again....this guy could have walked into any school or a movie theater........so no...gun control does not work..even in Britain...

Four people? That's just another day anywhere in America.

Yeah..not supposed to be able to happen after Britain confiscated all their guns and implemented strict gun control...but nice try....

And maybe you will answer....

What kept this guy from going into a British school?

What kept this guy from going into a British movie theater?

Answer....nothing.

The only reason they don't have more mass shootings in Britain...their nuts haven't decided to do it....

Except of course for the 19 year old who planned on shooting up his old school...I posted earlier about that one....he was caught...

It's not supposed to be able to happen? Who says? You? Obviously they have less gun deaths in Britain because so few people have guns. Does that mean we should enact laws like that here? No, because they would be ineffective in a society that already has hundreds of millions privately owned guns in circulation.

Nope......guns in Britain are obviously easily acquired by 19 year olds when they want them...and this guy too.....

they didn't enact licensign, registration or background checks....they confiscated the guns and banned handguns.........

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there.

he got a glock with 90 rounds apof ammo...the stroy didn't specify te model.

 

[2aguy]

Gun ownership has been proven to save lives, Pogo. The statistics prove that to be true. When the criminal knows that the home owner has a gun? They usually move on.

Those figures are based on the police using weapons, not civilians.

Wrong..the actual studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Pogo]

Does britain have murder control or gun control?

You guys keep telling us that they are the same thing. And again...4 guys shot.......apparently they don't have gun control either.....

And please...maybe you will answer this...

What stopped him from walking into a school?

What stopped him from walking into a theater?

Could you point out the poster who ever claimed that "gun control" will stop ALL shootings?

No, no they cant. Because he doesnt have internet access and lives in a corn field

But within that field, he's out standing.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Could you point out the poster who ever claimed that "gun control" will stop ALL shootings?

Here he is

 

[2aguy]

There was a mass shooting in Britain....and I notice it wasnt' covered by the U.S. Press...I guess that is because it would hamper obama's claim that Europe has gun control...

Now keep in mind...Britain had confiscation of guns, they have strict gun control laws, far more extreme than any here in the states and and they are a first world country, so the anti gunners can't say they are like Mexico so they can't enforce their gun laws......

Sorry, Mr. President, England Had a 'Mass Shooting' Saturday - The Truth About Guns

Four men shot in legs in Birmingham - BBC News

From the BBC report.......so no...it isn't from the gun blog...they just linked to it...

Four men were taken to hospital with bullet wounds to their legs after a shooting in Birmingham.

Police said they were called to the Costcutter shop in Great Hampton Row, north of the city centre, on Saturday.

Three men remain in hospital for treatment for their injuries, which are not thought to be life-threatening.

West Midlands Police refused to speculate on any motive for the attack. There were no arrests and no direct appeal for witnesses.


And again....this guy could have walked into any school or a movie theater........so no...gun control does not work..even in Britain...

Four people? That's just another day anywhere in America.

Yeah..not supposed to be able to happen after Britain confiscated all their guns and implemented strict gun control...but nice try....

And maybe you will answer....

What kept this guy from going into a British school?

What kept this guy from going into a British movie theater?

Answer....nothing.

The only reason they don't have more mass shootings in Britain...their nuts haven't decided to do it....

Except of course for the 19 year old who planned on shooting up his old school...I posted earlier about that one....he was caught...

It's not supposed to be able to happen? Who says? You? Obviously they have less gun deaths in Britain because so few people have guns. Does that mean we should enact laws like that here? No, because they would be ineffective in a society that already has hundreds of millions privately owned guns in circulation.

Nope......guns in Britain are obviously easily acquired by 19 year olds when they want them...and this guy too.....

they didn't enact licensign, registration or background checks....they confiscated the guns and banned handguns.........

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there.

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there.

Here you go.....

It was a Glock 19......


British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

 

[2aguy]

OP is a hasty generalization apropos of nothing. And a fallacy of argumentum: gun control does not eliminate murders, it greatly reduces murders is the right argument. The UK's shooting and murder rates by gun are fare below the US in numbers and per capita. Move the OP to conspiracies, please.

No laws will ever eliminate gun deaths from our society, and Americans will never give up their Constitutionally guaranteed rights to have guns. But we can obviously make laws designed to reduce the possibility of crazy fuckers buying guns legally. Criminal types will always get guns. But how many of these mass school shooting freaks would have the street smarts to know how to buy a gun illegally? Probably almost none, since all those guys seem to be mentally ill, socially retarded shut ins.

But how many of these mass school shooting freaks would have the street smarts to know how to buy a gun illegally?

Hmmmm....they have a complete ban on handguns in Britain....especially for 19 year olds...right?

So I guess he had some street smarts...huh?


British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

 

[2aguy]

There was a mass shooting in Britain....and I notice it wasnt' covered by the U.S. Press...I guess that is because it would hamper obama's claim that Europe has gun control...

Now keep in mind...Britain had confiscation of guns, they have strict gun control laws, far more extreme than any here in the states and and they are a first world country, so the anti gunners can't say they are like Mexico so they can't enforce their gun laws......

Sorry, Mr. President, England Had a 'Mass Shooting' Saturday - The Truth About Guns

Four men shot in legs in Birmingham - BBC News

From the BBC report.......so no...it isn't from the gun blog...they just linked to it...

Four men were taken to hospital with bullet wounds to their legs after a shooting in Birmingham.

Police said they were called to the Costcutter shop in Great Hampton Row, north of the city centre, on Saturday.

Three men remain in hospital for treatment for their injuries, which are not thought to be life-threatening.

West Midlands Police refused to speculate on any motive for the attack. There were no arrests and no direct appeal for witnesses.


And again....this guy could have walked into any school or a movie theater........so no...gun control does not work..even in Britain...

Straw man.

The argument isn't that gun control eliminates gun violence. The argument is that it reduces gun violence.

And in Britain - which has tight gun control - the rate of gun violence is multitudes lower than in the US.

Nope...that is your argument....and they just didn't enact gun control...they confiscated and banned all handguns and put severe limits on long guns......so no...gun control does not work....you can't lie about it like that....

Our gun control laws have reduced gun murder rates too....and we have 12.8 million people carrying guns for self defense..

As British gun crime increases...what will you blame it on..since they already confisctated guns....

The only people who articulate the false premise that gun control eliminates gun violence are people who distort the argument to advance their own ideology.

Like you.

You don't pay attention to the argument. You hear what you want to hear and distort arguments to reinforce your own ideology.

Gun control in most western countries bans or tightly controls handguns. Long guns are less regulated.

I pay attention to the arguments....

 

[2aguy]

Does britain have murder control or gun control?

You guys keep telling us that they are the same thing.

No, no guys are telling you that.

And again...4 guys shot.......apparently they don't have gun control either.....

Shooting control or gun control?

And please...maybe you will answer this...

What stopped him from walking into a school?

What stopped him from walking into a theater?

Nothing stopped him...he just didnt do it. Nothing "stopped" me from going to a theater either

Exactly...so the gun control did not stop a mass shooting in Britain did it......nor did it stop the 19 year old who wanted to shoot up his school.....did it?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gun ownership has been proven to save lives, Pogo. The statistics prove that to be true. When the criminal knows that the home owner has a gun? They usually move on.

Those figures are based on the police using weapons, not civilians.

Wrong. those studies are civilain self defense and no military or police are included....

You are absolutely wrong. The 2.5 million figure includes more than 2.4 million police actions.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And the OP continues to ignore the much lower per capita rate of murders by guns in Great Britain than the US.

 

[2aguy]

There was a mass shooting in Britain....and I notice it wasnt' covered by the U.S. Press...I guess that is because it would hamper obama's claim that Europe has gun control...

Now keep in mind...Britain had confiscation of guns, they have strict gun control laws, far more extreme than any here in the states and and they are a first world country, so the anti gunners can't say they are like Mexico so they can't enforce their gun laws......

Sorry, Mr. President, England Had a 'Mass Shooting' Saturday - The Truth About Guns

Four men shot in legs in Birmingham - BBC News

From the BBC report.......so no...it isn't from the gun blog...they just linked to it...

Four men were taken to hospital with bullet wounds to their legs after a shooting in Birmingham.

Police said they were called to the Costcutter shop in Great Hampton Row, north of the city centre, on Saturday.

Three men remain in hospital for treatment for their injuries, which are not thought to be life-threatening.

West Midlands Police refused to speculate on any motive for the attack. There were no arrests and no direct appeal for witnesses.


And again....this guy could have walked into any school or a movie theater........so no...gun control does not work..even in Britain...

Four people? That's just another day anywhere in America.

Yeah..not supposed to be able to happen after Britain confiscated all their guns and implemented strict gun control...but nice try....

And maybe you will answer....

What kept this guy from going into a British school?

What kept this guy from going into a British movie theater?

Answer....nothing.

The only reason they don't have more mass shootings in Britain...their nuts haven't decided to do it....

Except of course for the 19 year old who planned on shooting up his old school...I posted earlier about that one....he was caught...

It's not supposed to be able to happen? Who says? You? Obviously they have less gun deaths in Britain because so few people have guns. Does that mean we should enact laws like that here? No, because they would be ineffective in a society that already has hundreds of millions privately owned guns in circulation.

Nope......guns in Britain are obviously easily acquired by 19 year olds when they want them...and this guy too.....

they didn't enact licensign, registration or background checks....they confiscated the guns and banned handguns.........

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there.

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there

Hmmmm...can you tell me what gun these immigrants in Britain had....?

Illegal Immigrant Shooting: Afghan Males Hunted By Police After Firing At Member Of The Public

Police are hunting a group of six men who fired a weapon at a member of the public on Saturday night. The victim, Paul Dale, was unhurt, and the men are believed to be Afghan illegal immigrants who were detained at a service station in Keele in the West Midlands hours earlier.

So...what British gun control laws keeps these guys from walking into a school?

What British gun control laws kept them from walking into a theater...?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Does britain have murder control or gun control?

You guys keep telling us that they are the same thing.

No, no guys are telling you that.

And again...4 guys shot.......apparently they don't have gun control either.....

Shooting control or gun control?

And please...maybe you will answer this...

What stopped him from walking into a school?

What stopped him from walking into a theater?

Nothing stopped him...he just didnt do it. Nothing "stopped" me from going to a theater either

Exactly...so the gun control did not stop a mass shooting in Britain did it......nor did it stop the 19 year old who wanted to shoot up his school.....did it?

Because Gun control isnt murder control. Hence the word GUN and not MURDER

 

[2aguy]

Four people? That's just another day anywhere in America.

Yeah..not supposed to be able to happen after Britain confiscated all their guns and implemented strict gun control...but nice try....

And maybe you will answer....

What kept this guy from going into a British school?

What kept this guy from going into a British movie theater?

Answer....nothing.

The only reason they don't have more mass shootings in Britain...their nuts haven't decided to do it....

Except of course for the 19 year old who planned on shooting up his old school...I posted earlier about that one....he was caught...

It's not supposed to be able to happen? Who says? You? Obviously they have less gun deaths in Britain because so few people have guns. Does that mean we should enact laws like that here? No, because they would be ineffective in a society that already has hundreds of millions privately owned guns in circulation.

Nope......guns in Britain are obviously easily acquired by 19 year olds when they want them...and this guy too.....

they didn't enact licensign, registration or background checks....they confiscated the guns and banned handguns.........

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there.

Well then since you seem to know so much about gun laws in Britain you should be able to tell me what kind of guns are available for a nineteen year old there

Hmmmm...can you tell me what gun these immigrants in Britain had....?

Illegal Immigrant Shooting: Afghan Males Hunted By Police After Firing At Member Of The Public

And the OP continues to ignore the much lower per capita rate of murders by guns in Great Britain than the US.

Nope...I have addressed that issue over and over again.....they had less gun crime in Britain than we did before the gun confiscation.....and British criminals can still get guns whenever they want them...just like these immigrants did and the 19 year old, and the guy who shot the 4 guys.....

In the past they just have chosen not to shoot people as much.....it is a culture issue, not a gun access issue....

And now that is changing....thanks to immigration....and now they may face more mass shooters because of the media....

 

[JakeStarkey]

In other words, the poster of the OP cannot defend the OP.

He has made a false appeal to culture without any facts or studies.

 

[2aguy]

Gun ownership has been proven to save lives, Pogo. The statistics prove that to be true. When the criminal knows that the home owner has a gun? They usually move on.

Those figures are based on the police using weapons, not civilians.

Wrong. those studies are civilain self defense and no military or police are included....

You are absolutely wrong. The 2.5 million figure includes more than 2.4 million police actions.

You can add the numbers and average them yourself...notice in that post...I highlighted the non military, non police studies...

see, I even said so in the post...and if you had read it you would know...

See post # 85 read it again......

If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nope, the figures that actually make up the total do not support you in any way at all.

 

[2aguy]

Nope, the figures that actually make up the total do not support you in any way at all.

again...take the studies that do not include the military and police....and average them....comes out to 2 million.