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Try starting a business with no regard for making profits.
Go on.
Oh, wait, that's right; you think the gov't is going to create a business for you and provide your customers for you.
And no, conservatives do NOT believe in laisse faire.
It creates an environment for fraud and waste. For markets to be truly free and fair the terms of the transaction have to be defined.
For example, if 2 men agree to the sale of 10 pounds of flour for a dollar the government is within its proper role of defining what constitutes the terms "pound" and "flour" and "dollar". In practical terms that means the weight has a set example (the US government actually retains such things) and flour can be defined by its ingredients and grind (thus, say, cutting it with chalk dust would constitute fraud) and the dollar is the medium of economic activity.
Not only do conservatives agree with such things these things are enumerated in the Constitution. Did you know that?
Please provide argument as to how governments create markets and how markets--government or private--survive without profit motive.Wow, way to knock down that straw man you just constructed. It just fell right over, didn't it?
How about showing where conservatives have called for laisse faire...And Christians don't believe in God.
You don't suppose governments would happen to be run by individuals...do you? Why are you so eager to turn every facet of your life over to individuals with the force of government power at their disposal?Yes, I agree. Government should regulate markets, because individuals can't be trusted. Welcome to the Democratic Party.
Please provide argument as to how governments create markets and how markets--government or private--survive without profit motive.
how is your opinion any more valid than his?Opinion as fact? Tells me a lot about you.
Do tell me when the last depression was? Before the New Deal!
You read every page of your mortgage loan? That's really funny... because I can promise you didn't. Your lawyer said "sign here"; "sign here" and "sign here" and you did. Then they handed you a HUD 1 and maybe explained your charges. And that's a maybe IF you had a good attorney.You sign so many papers, reams and reams of small print, you sign checks til you're hand hurts.
Damned right nobody reads that oiler plate crap. They have the money, you've busted your ass to find a place and do the paperwork. You wouldn't care if you were signing over your first born at a closing.
All you want is the keys so you can go have a smoke and start drinking champagne.
*Edit* And why do I believe that? Because a) you can't negotiate your mortgage loan, so if you want the money, there's pretty much no point to do anything but "sign here"; and b) things go pretty quickly at a closing and no one's waiting around while you read 50 pages of mortgage docs.
right. You can negotiate. You can walk out. That's you choice of course, but it's no choice really given how hard you worked to get to the closing.
Who among us had the interest rate mysteriously go up the day of closing?
I did. I refused to pay for the lock, so the bastards jimmied an 1/8 of a point out of me.
And, in case its escaped your attention, the free market doesn't correct for predatory lending... until things go BOOM... like they are.
Correct it?
It applaudes it!
You read every page of your mortgage loan? That's really funny... because I can promise you didn't. Your lawyer said "sign here"; "sign here" and "sign here" and you did. Then they handed you a HUD 1 and maybe explained your charges. And that's a maybe IF you had a good attorney.My GAWD!You sign so many papers, reams and reams of small print, you sign checks til you're hand hurts.
Damned right nobody reads that oiler plate crap. They have the money, you've busted your ass to find a place and do the paperwork. You wouldn't care if you were signing over your first born at a closing.
All you want is the keys so you can go have a smoke and start drinking champagne.
right. You can negotiate. You can walk out. That's you choice of course, but it's no choice really given how hard you worked to get to the closing.
Who among us had the interest rate mysteriously go up the day of closing?
I did. I refused to pay for the lock, so the bastards jimmied an 1/8 of a point out of me.
Correct it?
It applaudes it!
How do you people even get up in the morning. Do you need some government subsidzed nanny to wake you up, wash you, dress you and send you off to a government run job.
Grow up and grow a set. If you can't then maybe you do deserve to be slaves.
Barack Obama has a tax cut plan that pays for itself, and is fiscally responsible. It restores the tax system for the upper class to what it was pre-Bush, when the budget was actually balanced (and we ran a surplus, remember that?). John McCain's tax plan is fiscally irresponsible and depends heavily on deficit spending (which is in record territory with every year of the Bush administration). Barack Obama's tax plan will put return more income to more people, who will use it to help stimulate the economy through consumerism, while not paying for it with deficit spending. John McCain's tax plan returns income to very few people, who will have a negligible impact on the economy with their new spending.
Obama will pull us out of Iraq, which will save us $200 billion dollars a year. Then universal healthcare will save us another $200 billion a year and make us more competitive. That's $1.6 trillion saved in Obama's first term.
Barack Obama has a tax cut plan that pays for itself, and is fiscally responsible. It restores the tax system for the upper class to what it was pre-Bush, when the budget was actually balanced (and we ran a surplus, remember that?). John McCain's tax plan is fiscally irresponsible and depends heavily on deficit spending (which is in record territory with every year of the Bush administration). Barack Obama's tax plan will put return more income to more people, who will use it to help stimulate the economy through consumerism, while not paying for it with deficit spending. John McCain's tax plan returns income to very few people, who will have a negligible impact on the economy with their new spending.
I thought the New Deal was AFTER the war?
I heard something a while back about the GI bill after ww2 and how it not only helped the economy, it smarted up America.
Please explain what you mean by "it took a world war to fix the economy"?
And before Social Security, a lot of Americans died without dignity. Most Americans want it. It's not the program that sucks. It's the politicians, specifically the Republicans that are assuring that it won't be there in the future. The republicans are right that government doesn't work. At least not when they are running it. So maybe start putting two and two together, huh? The GOP doesn't like or want social security so the last three presidents each doubled the debt trying to bankrupt the treasury. Doesn't it seem that way to you? The same way they spread the military too thin so they could outsource it to Haloburton & blackwater & kbr, which all happen to be the same companies, run by Chaney and his buddies. How dumb are American voters? McCain you want? HA!!! He's a maverick? He was in Warshington even when Reagan was president.
Reagan $200 billion deficit
HW Bush $300 billion deficit
Clinton, $200 billion surplus
GW Bush $482 billion deficit
Facts are facts.
(In response to another poster pointing out it lengthened the depression.)
How FDR's New Deal Harmed Millions of Poor People
ParaPundit: FDR Policies Prolonged Great Depression For Years
And plenty more on this subject found in libraries written by economists -not only do hundreds of US economists agree, so do two Nobel Prize economists.
Clinton had NO fiscal policy. Not one single Clinton economic legislative initiative was ever passed by Congress. He had a Republican congress for six of his eight years and in the first two, the Senate successfully fillibustered every single Clinton economic and tax bill.Clinton balanced his budget. He didn't pay down the debt. By design, the debt will NEVER be paid off. All our income taxes do is pay down interest on the national debt.
JP Morgan, Rockafellor & Carnege started the Federal Reserve. The more we go into debt, the more the people that own the Federal Reserve today benefit.
Bail out the banks? Sure, just put it on the debt. Everyone except the people of this country win.
You'd best be advised to stop "thinking" then. You might hurt yourself...I thought the New Deal was AFTER the war?
My GAWD!
How do you people even get up in the morning. Do you need some government subsidzed nanny to wake you up, wash you, dress you and send you off to a government run job.
Grow up and grow a set. If you can't then maybe you do deserve to be slaves.
too late, i think that boat sailed a long time agoYou'd best be advised to stop "thinking" then. You might hurt yourself...
Don't get yourself all into a snit, 'roid. You'll drive yourself right into tizzy.
We, the American people, are fed up with the corporate aristocracy that has been slowly robbing us of our quality of life for the last 30 years. We're sort of like the French masses just before the Revolution, and if we don't get some satisfaction soon, heads will roll (metaphorically {probably}). We are THIS CLOSE to electing politicians who promise to SOAK THE RICH!
So what other politician are you thinking about? Obama sure isn't going to soak anyone.
Damned right nobody reads that oiler plate crap. They have the money, you've busted your ass to find a place and do the paperwork. You wouldn't care if you were signing over your first born at a closing.
