Men have no rights when it comes to womens health concerning

[martybegan]

If a man wants to choose whether or not to carry a child.....then let him carry the child.

Again, talking biology not legality.

 

[night_son]

abortions. No rights even if the male is married to the female and wants a baby. A women should make it known to men that she is not ready or doesn't' want kids before marriage and a women has a choice to change her mind anytime she wants.

Penny, do you know who Donatien Alphonse François was? He was one of the first abortion activists of the Western world, who lived from 1740-1814. He believed—and wrote thousands of words about—the inherent, natural right of men to take pleasure from inflicting sexual violence on women. Can you possibly understand, Penny, how his ancient words have trickled down from his era of French History, over the many decades since he wrote them, into American culture of the 1950's, and eventually, into your mind? Old Donatien Alphonse François also believed in abortion as a means of population control, and that mothers should have a right to kill even children who had already been born. This man, Penny, is the man whose savage ideas have deceived you into believing that the killing of the unborn is normal and moral. Further, he is the MAN who made you think women have the right do whatever they want while pregnant, to their developing child. No WOMAN came up with the idea. No, this man gave you permission to do it, he told you what you could and couldn't do with your own body, and apparently, you have no problem with that.

And Penny, this man I've spoken about with you above? He is also known by another name. A name which made him very famous and even more infamous to history. His other name, a title really, was The Marquis de Sade. You should look up the definitions of Sadism; Sadist; Sadistic. Do any of those definitions describe you?

So I take it you do not want to accept responsibility for not getting someone pg nor spreading STD's. Once that female is pg, even if its your wife, you have no say so if she gets an abortion or not.

Actually, Penny we are trying for a little one. I have three nieces: ages 8, 16 and recently, 18. The middle one just got her driver's license (oh shit!), works two jobs, and has bought her own car, and pays for her own car insurance, which just increased dramatically—after a bit of a fender bender at a traffic light. As for STDs, the Army has, over 27 years, shown me images more terrifying of the consequences of, than slides of Landmine Warfare Training, from WW1.

I do try, Penny. However, and above all else, I respect your opinion—and your right to have and keep said opinion, even if we must agree to disagree.

 

[night_son]

abortions. No rights even if the male is married to the female and wants a baby. A women should make it known to men that she is not ready or doesn't' want kids before marriage and a women has a choice to change her mind anytime she wants.

Penny, do you know who Donatien Alphonse François was? He was one of the first abortion activists of the Western world, who lived from 1740-1814. He believed—and wrote thousands of words about—the inherent, natural right of men to take pleasure from inflicting sexual violence on women. Can you possibly understand, Penny, how his ancient words have trickled down from his era of French History, over the many decades since he wrote them, into American culture of the 1950's, and eventually, into your mind? Old Donatien Alphonse François also believed in abortion as a means of population control, and that mothers should have a right to kill even children who had already been born. This man, Penny, is the man whose savage ideas have deceived you into believing that the killing of the unborn is normal and moral. Further, he is the MAN who made you think women have the right do whatever they want while pregnant, to their developing child. No WOMAN came up with the idea. No, this man gave you permission to do it, he told you what you could and couldn't do with your own body, and apparently, you have no problem with that.

And Penny, this man I've spoken about with you above? He is also known by another name. A name which made him very famous and even more infamous to history. His other name, a title really, was The Marquis de Sade. You should look up the definitions of Sadism; Sadist; Sadistic. Do any of those definitions describe you?

That entire line of gibberish is predicated on a fallacy: that a woman needs *anyone* to tell her how to use her own body.

She doesn't. She doesn't need anyone to tell her its moral. She doesn't need anyone to come up with justifications for her actions. She can control the use of her own body, by her own will, for her own reasons. And be left alone by the State to make her own choices.

That's the beating heart of the right to privacy....the right to be left alone. And no, they didn't cite the Marquis de Sade when they recognized this fundamental right.

Do you know what the fallacy of origins is? Did you know its also known as the 'genetic fallacy'? You should look it up. Do you realize you're that fallacy's poster child?

Accuses me of being, "No true Scotsman," and then, eats, chutes and leaves. Why can I not smell the gunpowder?

 

[Penelope]

abortions. No rights even if the male is married to the female and wants a baby. A women should make it known to men that she is not ready or doesn't' want kids before marriage and a women has a choice to change her mind anytime she wants.

Penny, do you know who Donatien Alphonse François was? He was one of the first abortion activists of the Western world, who lived from 1740-1814. He believed—and wrote thousands of words about—the inherent, natural right of men to take pleasure from inflicting sexual violence on women. Can you possibly understand, Penny, how his ancient words have trickled down from his era of French History, over the many decades since he wrote them, into American culture of the 1950's, and eventually, into your mind? Old Donatien Alphonse François also believed in abortion as a means of population control, and that mothers should have a right to kill even children who had already been born. This man, Penny, is the man whose savage ideas have deceived you into believing that the killing of the unborn is normal and moral. Further, he is the MAN who made you think women have the right do whatever they want while pregnant, to their developing child. No WOMAN came up with the idea. No, this man gave you permission to do it, he told you what you could and couldn't do with your own body, and apparently, you have no problem with that.

And Penny, this man I've spoken about with you above? He is also known by another name. A name which made him very famous and even more infamous to history. His other name, a title really, was The Marquis de Sade. You should look up the definitions of Sadism; Sadist; Sadistic. Do any of those definitions describe you?

So I take it you do not want to accept responsibility for not getting someone pg nor spreading STD's. Once that female is pg, even if its your wife, you have no say so if she gets an abortion or not.

Actually, Penny we are trying for a little one. I have three nieces: ages 8, 16 and recently, 18. The middle one just got her driver's license (oh shit!), works two jobs, and has bought her own car, and pays for her own car insurance, which just increased dramatically—after a bit of a fender bender at a traffic light. As for STDs, the Army has, over 27 years, shown me images more terrifying of the consequences of, than slides of Landmine Warfare Training, from WW1.

I do try, Penny. However, and above all else, I respect your opinion—and your right to have and keep said opinion, even if we must agree to disagree.

I hope your dream comes true, you and your significant other. That is how children should come into this world. I should add by mutual consent.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Limits are essential. Though how far should those limits go?

Fascism to Anarchy.... where is the line? People have different views on that.

True. To paraphrase a friend of mine... “My Moral life doesn’t decrease your ability to live an immoral life, but your immoral life does infringe in my ability to live a Moral life.”

That’s the problem.

Why is someone else being immoral, causing you not to be moral?

 

[Penelope]

From the Nifla website:
Decisions, Decisions: Why Women Choosing Life is So Important
Decisions are powerful. As rational human beings, we have the gift of free will. What we choose to do with that gift is entirely up to us. Any day now, the Supreme Court will make a decision in the outcome of National Institute of Family and Life Advocates v. Becerra—a decision that could directly affect the choices women make for their babies. This video explains just how important the NIFLA v. Becerra case is to […]

But congress and the Supreme Courts does not agree with this.

and this :

NIFLA Celebrates 25 Years Protecting Women’s Choice, Culture of Life
The National Institute of Family and Life Advocates has worked diligently for twenty-five years – a quarter of a century – to protect the right of pro-life pregnancy centers to operate and empower mothers to choose life. NIFLA’s efforts in federal court against the violations of the free speech rights of such centers is a major focus as we continue the battle for the sanctity of human life in our nation. In NIFLA v. Becerra the […]

----------------------------------------------------------

But the problem is the GOP do not want to give women choice or free will.

 

[Penelope]

This is why men need to become accountable and fess up when they cheat! And wear quality condoms.

HIV Among Women – Facts from the CDC
Did you know… Approximately 1 in 4 people living with HIV in the United States are women? Most new HIV diagnoses in women are attributed to heterosexual sex? Between 2005 and 2014, the number of new HIV diagnoses among women declined 40%? According to the CDC, “Black/African American and Hispanic/Latina women continue to be disproportionately affected by HIV, compared with women of other races/ethnicities. Of the total estimated number of wome living with diagnosed HIV at the end of […]
HIV Among Women - Facts from the CDC | NIFLA.org

What they don't say on their website is from the website on the CDC site is:
From 2011 to 2015:

• HIV diagnoses among all women declined 16%.
• Among African American women, diagnoses declined 20%, among Hispanic/Latina women, diagnoses declined 14%, and among white women, diagnoses remained stable.
• -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently AA and Hispanics learn, white women not so much!!

 

[Anathema]

Why is someone else being immoral, causing you not to be moral?

Having to deal with women in the workplace. Having to pay taxes to support wastes of flesh and oxygen who refuse to support themselves. Having to find a bank that still has male tellers to do my banking. Dealing with people who don't respect or embrace the language and culture of this country.

All of these things and much more put me in a position of having to either violate my morals/values or go completely out of my way to conduct even the most basic business and life activities..

 

[Skylar]

As the laws of 50 of 50 States demonstrate eleganlty....the confusion is yours. As legality sits on one side of this issue exclusively. Not yours.

Every state recognizes that a man and woman have equal obligation for their own children.

As it should be.

More appeal to authority, and when and if an ERA amendment passes, if poorly written those laws would become moot.

Says the soul that just appealed to the authority of 'legality'. Defined by you of course.

I'll stick with legality as defined by 50 of 50 States. As the legislatures are embued by the the people to make law. And you're nobody.

Is this really it? Just your standard sctick of demanding that we ignore the law and every legal principle and accept your personal opinion as the law?

You're quite the one trick pony, Marty.

it's not a question of obligation, its a question of only one having a legal "out" if they don't want a child after sex resulting in a pregnancy.

Of course its a question of obligation. If the child exists, the obligation exists for both parents. If the child doesn't exist, no obligation exists for either parents.

The obligation is equal. And at no point can the mother saddle the father with an obligation that she doesn't also bear.

Parents are responsible for their children. You're insisting that men should never have to be.

Nope.

You run to the warm comfort of established law because you an unable to see the actual question and debate.

In comparison to what? You demanding that YOU define 'legality'?

Sorry, but the moment you cited 'legality', you lost. As the law is firmly on one side of this issue. With every State has rejected your nonsense without exception.

Is your standard plea that we accept your imagination as the law really all you have?

If so, that was easy.

And as usual you argue the how and not the why.

As usual I've argued the law and applied reason. Both of which you ignore.

In the real world, obligations are always identical. Either both parents are responsible, or neither are.

In the wasteland of your imagination, obligations are unequal. Where every woman is responsible for every child she bears while a man is never responsible for any child he sires.

No. That's neither fair nor equal. Which is why your imagination has been rejected by every state legislature in the union. Simply put, parents are responsible for their children.

This simple axiom obliterates your entire silly argument.

 

[Skylar]

No special protections. Merely the *same* protections: control over the use of their own bodies.

You're demanding unequal obligation, where a woman is responsible for every child she bears but a father is not responsible for any child he sires.

Nope. We will continue with equal rights to control of one's own body and equal obligation for one's children.

No, I am not, you are the one demanding unequal protections.

Of course you're demanding legal inequality. You're demanding that a woman be responsible for every child she bears but a man never has to take responsibility for any child he fathers.

Nope. Your pseudo-legal gibberish is rejected universally by every state in the Union. And for good reason. As the obligation isn't to the mother....its to the child.

If the child exist, the obligation exists. Your entire nonsense demand is debunked by the simple fact that children are responsible for their own children.

Now you are not making any sense, and you have lost the ability to use the quote function properly.

Here's the post again, for the cheap seats.

Of course you're demanding legal inequality. You're demanding that a woman be responsible for every child she bears but a man never has to take responsibility for any child he fathers.

Nope. Your pseudo-legal gibberish is rejected universally by every state in the Union. And for good reason. As the obligation isn't to the mother....its to the child.

If the child exist, the obligation exists. Your entire nonsense demand is debunked by the simple fact that parents are responsible for their own children.

Again you go past the part we are actually arguing about.


Right now women can have responsibility free sex, but men can't. How does that create equality?

The obligations to care for one's own children are the heart of the failure of your argument. Its the reason why its been rejected by every state legislature without exception.

That you don't want to discuss this enormous, argument crippling hole in your reasoning doesn't make it disappear. Nor does it limit me in the slightest in pointing it out. Repeatedly.

You're demanding unequal obligation. Where a woman is responsible for every child she bears. But a man is never responsible for any child he sires.

Um, no. The obligation is to the child. Parents are responsible for their own children. You insist that with men *exclusively* that a parent shouldn't be responsible for their own child. Which you laughably call 'equality of the sexes'.

No. Unequal obligations are not equal. Men never having to take responsibility for their own children is not 'equality'. The entire premise of your argument is pseudo-legal gibberish.

 

[WinterBorn]

Why is someone else being immoral, causing you not to be moral?

Having to deal with women in the workplace. Having to pay taxes to support wastes of flesh and oxygen who refuse to support themselves. Having to find a bank that still has male tellers to do my banking. Dealing with people who don't respect or embrace the language and culture of this country.

All of these things and much more put me in a position of having to either violate my morals/values or go completely out of my way to conduct even the most basic business and life activities..

You only do your banking with male tellers?? LMAO!! You DO realize that females probably handle your money anyway, right? And that more males than females commit bank fraud and embezzle.

 

[Anathema]

You only do your banking with male tellers?? LMAO!! You DO realize that females probably handle your money anyway, right? And that more males than females commit bank fraud and embezzle.

I can’t control what happens behind the scenes. If the bank wishes to use an immoral workforce behind the sceens there’s nothing I can do about that. The bank accounts I have are for bill payment only. We keep most of our funds in cash, so there’s not much there to steal or mess with.

 

[Skylar]

You only do your banking with male tellers?? LMAO!! You DO realize that females probably handle your money anyway, right? And that more males than females commit bank fraud and embezzle.

I can’t control what happens behind the scenes. If the bank wishes to use an immoral workforce behind the sceens there’s nothing I can do about that. The bank accounts I have are for bill payment only. We keep most of our funds in cash, so there’s not much there to steal or mess with.

How are women 'immoral' anymore than men?

 

[WinterBorn]

You only do your banking with male tellers?? LMAO!! You DO realize that females probably handle your money anyway, right? And that more males than females commit bank fraud and embezzle.

I can’t control what happens behind the scenes. If the bank wishes to use an immoral workforce behind the sceens there’s nothing I can do about that. The bank accounts I have are for bill payment only. We keep most of our funds in cash, so there’s not much there to steal or mess with.

How are women 'immoral' anymore than men?

Right? Pure delusion.

 

[Skylar]

You only do your banking with male tellers?? LMAO!! You DO realize that females probably handle your money anyway, right? And that more males than females commit bank fraud and embezzle.

I can’t control what happens behind the scenes. If the bank wishes to use an immoral workforce behind the sceens there’s nothing I can do about that. The bank accounts I have are for bill payment only. We keep most of our funds in cash, so there’s not much there to steal or mess with.

How are women 'immoral' anymore than men?

Right? Pure delusion.

These kinds of threads draw misogeny like heat does pus from a wound.

 

[Anathema]

How are women 'immoral' anymore than men?

The immorality occurs when they engage in activities and work which is not appropriate for women.

 

[Skylar]

How are women 'immoral' anymore than men?

The immorality occurs when they engage in activities and work which is not appropriate for women.

How is being a teller 'inappropriate'? Or immoral in anyway?

 

[Anathema]

How is being a teller 'inappropriate'? Or immoral in anyway?

Man’s work. Always has been. Simple as that.

 

[Skylar]

How is being a teller 'inappropriate'? Or immoral in anyway?

Man’s work. Always has been. Simple as that.

There haven't always been bank tellers. How then could it 'always be' man's work?

Your claims make no sense.

 

[Anathema]

There haven't always been bank tellers. How then could it 'always be' man's work?

Your claims make no sense.

Since we’ve had these types of job they have been Male dominated. Money changing and banking have been Men’s work for centuries.

We’re also not just talking about banking. Take any job type which has traditionally been Male. I don’t deal with female doctors.