Minimum wage is already “livable”

[krichton]

It would increase labor costs across the board making automation to replace those humans more attractive. Automation is the largest blue-collar jobs killer in the country. No reason to put that on steroids.

So....you think automation wouldn't happen if labor costs were stagnant? That's happening right now with a $7.25 federal minimum wage. How much lower can it possibly get when you're already making hundreds of millions or billions? How will those wage increases have any effect at all on the bottomlineof the super wealthy?

 

[Crepitus]

Yeah, yeah….we’ve heard that before from leftists who don’t understand how an economy works.

1) Half the businesses would fail, and we would have tens of millions of people thrown into unemployment - and forced to rely on government welfare indefinitely due to the shortage of job openings. Of course, this may be what libsters are hoping for.

2) The minimum wage, paid to the lowest 2% of the country, IS livable. The most unskilled, uneducated among us can rent a room for a few hundred dollars a month. People have done that for generations, and they were living.

Have half the businesses in Seattle failed?

 

[Crepitus]

To do that they pay workers what they are worth.

And you and I make up the difference so they can keep their profit margins.

I don't wanna here your hypocritical ass bitching about tax increases anymore.

 

[Crepitus]

Your way results in less jobs. It also makes it harder for the people at the bottom to find opportunity for growth.

No. Someone else will come along with a business model number hats better.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No. Someone else will come along with a business model number hats better.

If a business cannot survive paying employees what they are worth, what makes you think that a new business overpaying them will make a business successful? That's like trading in your car because you can't afford the $500.00 payments and getting a new car for $700.00 a month payments.

 

[Concerned American]

The Democrats claim the Min Wage must be $15 an hour. I survived very nicely for 5 years on $12.50 per hour.

1973, my working wage as a factory machine operator was $3.90 and hour, which was considered good money. I was able to pay $120 for rent, $100 car payment, $30/mo for auto insurance, $60/mo for utilities, and $140 for taxes and social security. Out of my $560 monthly wages, that left $110 for gasoline for my VW to make the 15 mile commute to the job and feed myself. I was able to do that, afford a bit of dope, 2 cases of Lucky Lager and still have enough left over to take my now wife out to a movie and treat her to a burger and fries on Fri. nights. You don't start out middle class, but with a bit of perseverance and discipline, it doesn't take long to get there.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you and I make up the difference so they can keep their profit margins.

I don't wanna here your hypocritical ass bitching about tax increases anymore.

What do tax increases have to do with any of this?

You and I don't make up the difference, we go to a competitor who sells products or services cheaper. That's how they put other places out of business.

 

[Crepitus]

If a business cannot survive paying employees what they are worth, what makes you think that a new business overpaying them will make a business successful? That's like trading in your car because you can't afford the $500.00 payments and getting a new car for $700.00 a month payments.

LOL @ "What they are worth". Don't you think they're worth enough to eat and a place to live?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So....you think automation wouldn't happen if labor costs were stagnant? That's happening right now with a $7.25 federal minimum wage. How much lower can it possibly get when you're already making hundreds of millions or billions? How will those wage increases have any effect at all on the bottomlineof the super wealthy?

Most businesses don't have millions or billions. Some just barely hold on and most startup businesses fail within a few years.

Yes automation is happening and has been for a number of years. Increasing labor costs will make them invest even more.

You have to divorce yourself from this leftist myth that when costs go up for a business, the owners just have to dig a little deeper into their pockets. It doesn't work that way now and never has. When costs increase, they search for ways to recoup those losses. The big guy never loses a dime.

 

[Crepitus]

What do tax increases have to do with any of this?

What do you think the government uses to Pay these people welfare and food stamp? Our tax money.

 

[Concerned American]

So....you think automation wouldn't happen if labor costs were stagnant?

Nope, automation is happening because in addition to the 7.25 wage, benefits have to be deducted. How much do you think the employer pays for your disability insurance, unemployment insurance, social security, health insurance, vacation, sick leave, FMLA, and parental leave costs. Add to that, the costs when the employee falsely, or not claims they damaged their backs and the related legal and settlement costs. We won't even get into legal costs when the employee says their feelings were hurt because the supervisor talked mean to them. The rule of thumb used to be the real cost of each employee was double their wage, it is probably closer to 2-1/2 times today. Machines OTOH, have a one time purchase cost--maintenance is a given as that is tax deductible as an indirect labor charge. No benefits, no hourly wage, no nuisance lawsuits, no complaints, shows up every day and never slows down. Automation is going to happen regardless, but watch how many more companies automate at a greater rate than now because of the unaffordable employees. Careful what you wish for -- you just might get it. I'll be seeing you and your sign outside of Walmart.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

LOL @ "What they are worth". Don't you think they're worth enough to eat and a place to live?

No I don't. As I explained, what you, I and everybody else is worth is what your employer can pay another to do the same job and quality of work as you do.

If you ask for a raise, get refused, and walk out making $20.00 an hour, and your employer hires another person for the same money, you walked out of a job where you were paid what you were worth. If your employer replaces you with somebody for $18.00 an hour, you walked off a job where you were being overpaid. If your employer has to increase his offer to $22.00 an hour, you were correct, you deserved a raise because you were being underpaid.

When I got into the labor force in the late 70's I couldn't afford a place to live yet alone able to feed myself. I had to work several minimum wage jobs to gain enough references to get a better paying job where I could move out of my parents home. Even then the only reason I was able to get my first apartment is because the job was working six days a week so I got a reasonable amount of overtime.

It was like that back then and it's the same way today. You work these jobs to learn things and get references. No, you will not be able to afford an apartment or house. You need to work up to that like we did years ago.

 

[braalian]

1973, my working wage as a factory machine operator was $3.90 and hour, which was considered good money. I was able to pay $120 for rent, $100 car payment, $30/mo for auto insurance, $60/mo for utilities, and $140 for taxes and social security. Out of my $560 monthly wages, that left $110 for gasoline for my VW to make the 15 mile commute to the job and feed myself. I was able to do that, afford a bit of dope, 2 cases of Lucky Lager and still have enough left over to take my now wife out to a movie and treat her to a burger and fries on Fri. nights. You don't start out middle class, but with a bit of perseverance and discipline, it doesn't take long to get there.

$3.90/hr in 1973 would be more than $24.00/hr today, adjusted for inflation

 

[Crepitus]

No I don't.

Then you're part of the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What do you think the government uses to Pay these people welfare and food stamp? Our tax money.

Correct. This is why we need to cut down drastically on social programs.

When I was working several of our customers used temp services. When they asked their temps if they could work more hours when things got busy, many of them refused. If they made more money, it came out of their food stamp stipend.

Take away those food stamps and those people would be taking all the hours they could get.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then you're part of the problem.

The only person that's a problem is the one who won't learn a skill or trade in which they can make a decent living. Get off the dope, get a better paying job, and quit asking the taxpayer to support your bad habits and decisions in life.

 

[Crepitus]

$3.90/hr in 1973 would be more than $24.00/hr today, adjusted for inflation

If minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be about $24.00 an hour. Where did all.the extra money go?

 

[braalian]

If minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be about $24.00 an hour. Where did all.the extra money go?

Well, he was making well over minimum wage. The minimum wage in 1973 was 1.60/hr or about 10.00/hr today. So not a huge difference.

Still, how many factory workers working the line make over $24 an hour these days? A factory job used to guarantee a reasonably comfortable lower-middle class life back then. Not today.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yes, we've always had a minimum wage

Wrong. The federal minimum wage was initiated in 1938 @ 25 cents / hr.
It was raised to 30 cents / hr (20%) in 1939.
It was raised to 40 cents / hr (33%) in 1945.
It was raised to 50 cents / hr (25%) in 1950.
..
Producing our first middle class and greatest economic expansion. But I bet there were just as many Lisa's around back then. In 1929, 1933, and in 2009 as well. Cut, gut, and punish, baby! Hell, 25 cents? They should've all been forced to work for food scraps!

 

[Concerned American]

$3.90/hr in 1973 would be more than $24.00/hr today, adjusted for inflation

I told you it was considered good money when I started the post--did you not read it? I don't know where you got your inflation adjustment numbers, but the same type job today in the same area, pays more like $18/hr and I could make it easier on that wage today than it was then.