Minimum wage

[danielpalos]

What about people with problems where getting a better job isn't an option?

People with concentration problems, people with mental problems, people with learning difficulties, the list is endless.

Getting a better job (or a JOB) is always an option, just depends on how hungry you get if nobody stuffs your mouth with free food.

Is it? Do you know what it's like having problems that you can't just solve by studying more? Some people can't take in as much as others, how are they going to compete? Oh, they should just be thrown out and live in the cold under a bridge because they were born with a brain that isn't as good as someone else's?

Where do you people get off?

If you can't compete, don't expect rewards in life as though you could.

One thing is "rewards", another thing is a roof over your head. If you can't see there's a big difference there, then you need to get real.

There was a time in my life when there was no roof over my head, for a few minutes, until I found some.

Found it without government assistance, minimum wage laws, and bleeding heart socialistic freeloading Bernie Sanders like mooching at the public teat.

some people made through the Great Depression as well. good for you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's a simple thing, that the rich keep the poor down. You have rich kids getting much better education and poorer kids get poor education, and then you expect the poor kids to work 5 times harder to get anywhere in life.

Bullshit, yep, that sums up what you said.

You don't need to hand kids everything, but it would be nice if they were at least given a fucking chance.

Much earlier in the thread, you said you didn't get it, and I agreed.


I still agree.

I see you're the sort of person who just presses the funny button all the time. Why do you bother coming on here?

The funny button is not the only one I click, but, if the post is funny, it deserves acknowledgment

Dude, it's a politics forum, and you come on behaving like a child. Jeez....

another funny post, but since you have an aversion to the little smiley face...

Fuck it, I'm putting you on ignore. I just know you aren't worth having off ignore.

 

[danielpalos]

Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?

A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?

I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.

What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"

You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?

The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.

Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?

The kid either does self study, or does the best he can with what is available.

Isn't that great. "Hey, kid, sorry, but you got born on the wrong side of the tracks, so screw you, all the good places will be taken by the rich kids, because their daddy has money."

What does living on the wrong side of the tracks have to do with anything?

Kid wants to do/become something, if the school he goes to doesn't support it, there are libraries, book stores, internet, etc he can get study materials.

When did it become necessary to hand kids everything so they can succeed?

"Sorry, Johnny, we dont' teach _______. you'll have to become a hamburger flipper"

Bullshit

it could be the difference between a successful hamburger flipper and a successful real estate mogul.

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

 

[Auld Phart]

Much earlier in the thread, you said you didn't get it, and I agreed.


I still agree.

I see you're the sort of person who just presses the funny button all the time. Why do you bother coming on here?

The funny button is not the only one I click, but, if the post is funny, it deserves acknowledgment

Dude, it's a politics forum, and you come on behaving like a child. Jeez....

another funny post, but since you have an aversion to the little smiley face...

Fuck it, I'm putting you on ignore. I just know you aren't worth having off ignore.

neither are you, but I enjoy the laughs

 

[Auld Phart]

The kid either does self study, or does the best he can with what is available.

Isn't that great. "Hey, kid, sorry, but you got born on the wrong side of the tracks, so screw you, all the good places will be taken by the rich kids, because their daddy has money."

What does living on the wrong side of the tracks have to do with anything?

Kid wants to do/become something, if the school he goes to doesn't support it, there are libraries, book stores, internet, etc he can get study materials.

When did it become necessary to hand kids everything so they can succeed?

"Sorry, Johnny, we dont' teach _______. you'll have to become a hamburger flipper"

Bullshit

it could be the difference between a successful hamburger flipper and a successful real estate mogul.

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

 

[danielpalos]

Isn't that great. "Hey, kid, sorry, but you got born on the wrong side of the tracks, so screw you, all the good places will be taken by the rich kids, because their daddy has money."

What does living on the wrong side of the tracks have to do with anything?

Kid wants to do/become something, if the school he goes to doesn't support it, there are libraries, book stores, internet, etc he can get study materials.

When did it become necessary to hand kids everything so they can succeed?

"Sorry, Johnny, we dont' teach _______. you'll have to become a hamburger flipper"

Bullshit

it could be the difference between a successful hamburger flipper and a successful real estate mogul.

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

 

[Auld Phart]

What does living on the wrong side of the tracks have to do with anything?

Kid wants to do/become something, if the school he goes to doesn't support it, there are libraries, book stores, internet, etc he can get study materials.

When did it become necessary to hand kids everything so they can succeed?

"Sorry, Johnny, we dont' teach _______. you'll have to become a hamburger flipper"

Bullshit

it could be the difference between a successful hamburger flipper and a successful real estate mogul.

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

 

[danielpalos]

it could be the difference between a successful hamburger flipper and a successful real estate mogul.

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

 

[eflatminor]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

Not everyone that works a menial job is paying the rent. He's a kid hoping to build a resume, maybe save a few bucks. He's a student living with a bunch of roommates. Maybe it's an retired lady that wants to get out of the house and engage with people. It's also the simple man, uneducated and perhaps slow, but is fully capable of sweeping the floors.

Your minimum wage laws PREVENT those people from working at all.

Shame on you.

Sure, however there are those that are. In the UK there is a different minimum wage for those within certain years (like 16-18, then 18 to 20 something).

No, minimum wage DOES NOT prevent people from working. More people were working AFTER minimum wage in the UK than before. Shame on you for making up bullshit lies. This is why I demand evidence from people, too many people just make shit up.

Causation vs correlation....and the logical fallacy of anecdote.

Look at the unemployment rate among youth. Look at the number of people on the dole! Look at corporations installing machines the moment technology becomes more efficient than your minimum wage and other meddling in private matters of compensation.

Look at objective studies:

Let the Data Speak: The Truth Behind Minimum Wage Laws

Now I'm sure you can cite leftist economists that will swear minimum wage laws do not affect employment, despite logic and reason.

Fine, because here's the important part: You have no right to tell a man what he's willing to work for, you meddling fuck.

Ah, amazing what you get when you read the whole post. You get INSULTS, what a surprise. I don't answer points made when insults are thrown.

Stated differently, you got nothing.

Got it.

 

[Auld Phart]

Reference to Trump there?

Nothing stopping a kid from becoming a real estate mogul, if that's what he wants, except his own drive and ability.

I remember back in the late 60s a kid making thousands playing penny stocks, long before computers were everywhere you looked.

He took an interest, made a plan, found an adult to front him so he could purchase the stocks, and cleaned up.

and he didn't come from the 'right side of the tracks', as I remember.

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

 

[danielpalos]

yet, the cognitively dissonant right wing, claims we need nationalism and socialism when it comes to freedom of association and Contract in our at-will employment States when it comes to hiring people from out of State.

 

[danielpalos]

most small business ventures fail due to a lack of a bailout from daddy or Uncle Sam.

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

Yes, entry level jobs need to compete favorably with the cost of social services; which is around fourteen dollars an hour now. that is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

 

[Auld Phart]

Which has what to do with a kid planning his future.

Nothing can guarantee his success, should that stop him from trying?

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

Yes, entry level jobs need to compete favorably with the cost of social services; which is around fourteen dollars an hour now. that is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Like I said, both far too high

 

[healthmyths]

Clearly isn't enough if you have to work between 53 and 92 hours at minimum wage simply to be able to afford accommodation.

AND CLEARLY you don't know anything about WHO works at minimum wage do you!


Q1.How many people are truly working for the "minimum wage"?
A1. Less then 2.6 million.
In 2015, 78.2 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 54.6 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, .9 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 2.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.3 percent of all hourly paid workers.

Q2. How old are the minimum wage workers?
Of the 2.6 million:
- Ages 16 to 24 (mostly unmarried with no children) made up 1.15 million.
So how many of the less then 2.6 million
- Ages 25 and older, some of whom MAY have a family...) 1.4 million.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2015/home.htm

Clearly you need to first of all recognize that EACH state is so different. Mississippi cost of living is different then NY!
So why is there a need for a FEDERAL Minimum wage? It's plain stupid that ONE SIZE does not fit all.
That's the beauty of the United States... common defense yes... individual living requirements... each state has it's own unique environment.
Plus go ahead raise to $15.00 and see how many of the above youth will be let go because they have no skill sets!
You don't care though!

 

[danielpalos]

capitalism's natural rate of unemployment is a barrier to entry to even, non labor markets based on capital.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, means it will be easier for more people to, make it, due to that bailout by Uncle Sam, if not daddy.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed,

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

Yes, entry level jobs need to compete favorably with the cost of social services; which is around fourteen dollars an hour now. that is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Like I said, both far too high

why do you believe that?

 

[Auld Phart]

Both far too high

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

Yes, entry level jobs need to compete favorably with the cost of social services; which is around fourteen dollars an hour now. that is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Like I said, both far too high

why do you believe that?

already covered that.

 

[danielpalos]

why do you believe that?

Minimum wage is for entry level jobs. If you want to make more, give your employer a reason to pay you more.

Why would anyone want to get off unemployment, if they are making the same as entry level employees?

Yes, entry level jobs need to compete favorably with the cost of social services; which is around fourteen dollars an hour now. that is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

Like I said, both far too high

why do you believe that?

already covered that.

No you didn't.

However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 35% to 37%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 88%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.[14][16][17] According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans "have more wealth than half of all Americans combined."[18][19] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a "substantial head start".[20][21] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, "over 60 percent" of the Forbes richest 400 Americans "grew up in substantial privilege".--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States#Statistics

why do you believe that for the poor?

 

[dblack]

Pablum for dummies.

 

[danielpalos]

Pablum for dummies.

the right never has a good answer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If your skills don't allow you to earn what you need to support yourself then you have 2 options, work more hours or attain skills that will merit a higher pay

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job has to be enough to pay all your bills?

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a fucking roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a fuck about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.

Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.

Its up to the US to get people trained?

I always thought that was MY job.

What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing

The real world.

You should visit sometime

The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.

Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.

it's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skills

A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices

The individual always trumps society

Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?

A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?

I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.

What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"

You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?

The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.

no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science

Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.

we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective