Ministers agree: "Price Tag" is terror

[Coyote]

What attacks brought the killing of Jonathan Palmer?

Or the injuring of Adelle Biton?

No you are trying to justify it - why, because those injured were Palestinians? Did they deserve it any more than Adelle Biton or Jonathan Palmer? Did they?

They attack SO many times unprovoked AT ALL.

I am far from making excuses, I already said I condemn acts of violence.

I am against calling graffiti boys "terrorists".

And that is my opinion, I don't see it changing soon

Their intent is to terrorize - they are as much terrorists as the KKK who burned crosses in front of the homes of black families, threw firebombs in their churches and lynched them. The sentiment is the same and the target is innocent people.

We're not talking about the kind of grafitti that is sprayed about to stake territorial claims, lovers spats or "artwork" - we're talking about the kind of grafitti that claims "the only good arab is a dead arab" on the wall of a mosque. The kind that leads to the beating of innocent people and the firebombing of places of worship.

Again I say, once Palestinians are PHYSICALLY injured, this is no price tag, but act of violence.

It is DONE by the Price Taggers who themselves call it a price tag retribution. It IS what it IS.

I said it once, if needed will say it 10 more times. Until my views cannot be misinterpreted.

I'm not representing anything - I'm pointing out that price taggers have and continue to use violence. It's NOT just grafitti and it is that aspect of it which is comparable to violence by Palestinian radicals.

If we discuss that, so the grafitti "Slaughter the Jews" is also terror?

If it's done by a group who's motive is to terrorize a group of people then yes, it is.

What happened to the simple freedom of speech?

It stops short of violence. And freedom of speech is not freedom to terrorize or vandalize. I've never heard of grafitti being given a free pass because it's "freedom of speech".

 

[Coyote]

Please read what I said again, I think you misunderstood me completely

I understand what you are saying: when Price Taggers progress to violence they are no longer "Price Tags".

I disagree because violence towards individuals is often the logical extreme to hateful grafitti that is intended to frighten and terrorize innocent people and it is the same gangs of youths who are ratcheting it up to violence and who's actions are supported by their communities. The intent is to terrorize - whether it's grafitti on a place of worsip, arson, or beating a man almost to death - it's all conducted under Price Tag auspices and it is terrorism.

It's no different than Palestinians throwing stones - most of the time the stones do little damage and are not intended to cause serious harm - there an expression of protest. Yet it does happen. Can you excuse it by saying those who caused harm are in a different category?

You see, but we don't arrest people here for INTENT to terrorize, or INTENT to scare and harm people.

In a universe where it is possible, something is not right.

That is why I don't think treating graffiti as the same as a bombed bus or a killing stone, is in the right place.

I think this is completely twisted thinking those are the same.

It's not the grafitti. It's the violence. Beating someone. Firebombing. All of which they've engaged in.

Grafitti is vandalism.

 

[Lipush]

No you are trying to justify it - why, because those injured were Palestinians? Did they deserve it any more than Adelle Biton or Jonathan Palmer? Did they?



Their intent is to terrorize - they are as much terrorists as the KKK who burned crosses in front of the homes of black families, threw firebombs in their churches and lynched them. The sentiment is the same and the target is innocent people.

We're not talking about the kind of grafitti that is sprayed about to stake territorial claims, lovers spats or "artwork" - we're talking about the kind of grafitti that claims "the only good arab is a dead arab" on the wall of a mosque. The kind that leads to the beating of innocent people and the firebombing of places of worship.

Again I say, once Palestinians are PHYSICALLY injured, this is no price tag, but act of violence.

I said it once, if needed will say it 10 more times. Until my views cannot be misinterpreted.

If we discuss that, so the grafitti "Slaughter the Jews" is also terror?

What happened to the simple freedom of speech?

graffiti is "simple freedom of speech"?

it can and IS viewed by some as such.

 

[Lipush]

I understand what you are saying: when Price Taggers progress to violence they are no longer "Price Tags".

I disagree because violence towards individuals is often the logical extreme to hateful grafitti that is intended to frighten and terrorize innocent people and it is the same gangs of youths who are ratcheting it up to violence and who's actions are supported by their communities. The intent is to terrorize - whether it's grafitti on a place of worsip, arson, or beating a man almost to death - it's all conducted under Price Tag auspices and it is terrorism.

It's no different than Palestinians throwing stones - most of the time the stones do little damage and are not intended to cause serious harm - there an expression of protest. Yet it does happen. Can you excuse it by saying those who caused harm are in a different category?

You see, but we don't arrest people here for INTENT to terrorize, or INTENT to scare and harm people.

In a universe where it is possible, something is not right.

That is why I don't think treating graffiti as the same as a bombed bus or a killing stone, is in the right place.

I think this is completely twisted thinking those are the same.

It's not the grafitti. It's the violence. Beating someone. Firebombing. All of which they've engaged in.

Grafitti is vandalism.

yet not all vandalism is terror.

 

[sealadaigh]

Again I say, once Palestinians are PHYSICALLY injured, this is no price tag, but act of violence.

I said it once, if needed will say it 10 more times. Until my views cannot be misinterpreted.

If we discuss that, so the grafitti "Slaughter the Jews" is also terror?

What happened to the simple freedom of speech?

graffiti is "simple freedom of speech"?

it can and IS viewed by some as such.

it is also a crime when done to private property and is "hate speech" when it says to 'kill....." people based upon their ethnicity or religion.

personally though, i do not think there should be a crime for hate speech or terrorism. i think people should be tried for a crime and let the penalty phase determine the severity of that crime to include consideration of "hate" and/or terrorism".

 

[sealadaigh]

I understand what you are saying: when Price Taggers progress to violence they are no longer "Price Tags".

I disagree because violence towards individuals is often the logical extreme to hateful grafitti that is intended to frighten and terrorize innocent people and it is the same gangs of youths who are ratcheting it up to violence and who's actions are supported by their communities. The intent is to terrorize - whether it's grafitti on a place of worsip, arson, or beating a man almost to death - it's all conducted under Price Tag auspices and it is terrorism.

It's no different than Palestinians throwing stones - most of the time the stones do little damage and are not intended to cause serious harm - there an expression of protest. Yet it does happen. Can you excuse it by saying those who caused harm are in a different category?

You see, but we don't arrest people here for INTENT to terrorize, or INTENT to scare and harm people.

In a universe where it is possible, something is not right.

That is why I don't think treating graffiti as the same as a bombed bus or a killing stone, is in the right place.

I think this is completely twisted thinking those are the same.

It's not the grafitti. It's the violence. Beating someone. Firebombing. All of which they've engaged in.

Grafitti is vandalism.

rock throwing is malicious mischief.

 

[Coyote]

You see, but we don't arrest people here for INTENT to terrorize, or INTENT to scare and harm people.

In a universe where it is possible, something is not right.

That is why I don't think treating graffiti as the same as a bombed bus or a killing stone, is in the right place.

I think this is completely twisted thinking those are the same.

It's not the grafitti. It's the violence. Beating someone. Firebombing. All of which they've engaged in.

Grafitti is vandalism.

yet not all vandalism is terror.

No. But if the intent is to terrorize a people, it is terror.

And if the perpetrators engage in violence, it is terror.

 

[Lipush]

Yes, that is what I said 10 times.

If it's turning into VIOLENCE, it is terror.

That's something I have never denied.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, that is what I said 10 times.

If it's turning into VIOLENCE, it is terror.

That's something I have never denied.

I never said you didn't.

What you do though is claim it's not price tag anymore. It is.

The KKK can claim it's simply a family-centered movement that happens to support racial segregation and conducts demonstrations in support of that and burns a few crosses, sprays a bit of grafitti and that's that. If a few black people get lynched, beaten or killed, or their homes burned out - it's not the KKK. That's the logic you're using in defending Price Tag.

 

[Lipush]

"I never said you didn't.

What you do though is claim it's not price tag anymore. It is."

That is a matter of opinion