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Don't be dense!
There was a full primary campaign with each candidate fully vetted. There were no rules that only conservatives could vote, or only moderates could vote. The reason why Romney won is simple, he was not distracted by democrat bait. It's the economy, he stayed there and sat on the issue as if it was an egg. Then it hatched into the nomination. Democrats are prejudiced. They have prejudged and formulated the "average" republican voter, imbuded that voter with democrat picked interests, and attributed the whole construct to the republican primary. If democrats need to ask why a moderate was chosen over the strong conservatives, it means democrats haven't got a clue as to the process. Likely, since human republicans are far more complex than human democrats the strong conservative candidates were rejected for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with conservative values.
Of all the republican candidates running, only Romney recognized that the bait the democrats threw out was maggoty. The war on women, the war on dogs, the endless social issues that democrats dragged around like Achilles dragging the body of Hector around the walls of Troy. They were all distractions. Romney never bit, nor did he even nibble. Santorum did, not only did he bite, but he flashed a bit of anger when he realized that he couldn't stop the democrat lies. Gingrich became too personally involved and ended up disliked. Cain was deliberately attacked and taken out by a string of democrat operatives.
This particular election is not about social values. Social values are a luxury when things are going pretty good. This election is about the economy and the mess obama made of foreign policy. Democrats want to force the election into being about social policy, it won't work because the Republican candidate is Mitt Romney. That's why he's the nominee and not a more conservative candidate.
Though I disagree with it that was a good response.
The only reason "social values" were brought into the primary is because the candidates themselves brought them in. It had nothing to do with the Dems. And your belief that it was somehow the Dems means that the GOP electorate is too stupid to realize when they are being manipulated by the opposing party.
No.....in my opinion this primary was a fight between the tea party vs conservatives vs moderates.
The moderates won.
I tend to agree. Libertarians are working hard to transform the Republican party, and seeing some success. Part of that process is rejecting the corporatists propped up by establishment leaders, which is why the best outcome of this election - from a libertarian point of view - is a Romney defeat. In my view, it would benefit the cause of freedom in two important ways.
First, as a corporatist, status-quo leader, Romney would pursue most of the same policies as Obama. But instead of being up against the stubborn opposition of Congress that Obama would face, Romney would find compliance. Republicans will support him out of partisanship, and Democrats out of general enthusiasm for big government.
Second, if we're to continue to make progress transforming the party, it's vital that the vested interests in the party pay the price for ignoring our priorities. Otherwise, if we reward Romney with a victory, they'll continue to ignore us.
I am not blaming true conservatives at all, BP. I am blaming libs who won't walk the line and theocratic right wingers who pretend they are conservative. However, it does not matter. Universal marriage is a sure deal thing, probably no later than 2018 to 2020.
Libertarians are making such progress the most moderate, capitalistic, corporationistic guy is going to be nominated.
No true Republican believes any libertarian has a say in the GOP other than casting a vote on election day. That is what we want from you, nothing else.
Libertarians are making such progress the most moderate, capitalistic, corporationistic guy is going to be nominated.
Clearly, we have a long way to go. But the numbers supporting Ron Paul's efforts to transform the Republican party have doubled to tripled over '08 - and that IS progress.
No true Republican believes any libertarian has a say in the GOP other than casting a vote on election day. That is what we want from you, nothing else.
Well, if I have anything to do with it, you won't get what you want. Ron Paul supporters and libertarians need to stand firm on this and say NO to the same old Republican song and dance. "True Republican" is a matter of perspective - and time. Things change. They are changing.
Times always change. Libertarianism has neither weight philosophically nor a message of interest to committed activists. We are aware that it is the flip side of communism, and we want neither.
We are aware that it is the flip side of communism, and we want neither.
Times always change. Libertarianism has neither weight philosophically nor a message of interest to committed activists. We are aware that it is the flip side of communism, and we want neither.
I haven't heard that one yet...Libertarianism is like communism?
We are aware that it is the flip side of communism, and we want neither.
Yes, 'we' do!
Otherwise, you folks would have some signficant political punch. You don't, you won't.We are aware that it is the flip side of communism, and we want neither.
Yes, 'we' do!
No We the People don't.
No, your "punch" is not growing. That's the point. The party slid left while the candidates to the libertarian and far right wings failed badly. Both parties are statist. That won't change.
Lots of questionsThis has been a really strange GOP primary. Almost the whole way through we've seen an almost rabid attempt to deny Mitt the nomination so a REAL conservative can be nominated. But the primary electorate would have none of it.
It says that it is unchanged since the last election when their candidate was John McCain.Since Mitt's got this all wrapped up what does this say about conservatism and the GOP party?
Not even close, see my answer to the first question.Is Mitt the REAL conservative and the rest RINO's?
No, Honestly most people would not know what the Citizen's United ruling even is.Is this the fallout from the Citizen's United ruling?
The religious wing of the Republican party is a great example of the squeaky wheel NOT getting any grease.Is the religious wing of the party losing it's influence?
The Tea Party has lost its luster when it was co-opted about 2 years ago.Is the Tea Party no longer a driving force?
Other than a handful of real conservatives, most are moderates.Will we see moderates gaining power in congress?
Looks like Romney has basically won the nomination, so it appears that a moderate even a RINO can win a party full of so called conservativesWhat say you? What's the message? Or is there a message? How can a moderate win the nomination in a party full of hard core conservatives?
The left (and a few wing nuts on the right) never tires of pimping the meme that "Mitt" is not "conservative".....What a crock. Mitt is a real conservative and he's an excellent candidate with a top notch organization. Conservatives, moderates, independents and libertarians across the country are all rallying around him and the cash is pouring in.....
I believe that as President, Mitt Romney will be as conservative as his Republican constituents in the Senate advises him to be.This has been a really strange GOP primary. Almost the whole way through we've seen an almost rabid attempt to deny Mitt the nomination so a REAL conservative can be nominated. But the primary electorate would have none of it.
Since Mitt's got this all wrapped up what does this say about conservatism and the GOP party?
Is Mitt the REAL conservative and the rest RINO's?
Is this the fallout from the Citizen's United ruling?
Is the religous wing of the party losing it's influence?
Is the Tea Party no longer a driving force?
Will we see moderates gaining power in congress?
What say you? What's the message? Or is there a message? How can a moderate win the nomination in a party full of hard core conservatives?
The left (and a few wing nuts on the right) never tires of pimping the meme that "Mitt" is not "conservative".....What a crock. Mitt is a real conservative and he's an excellent candidate with a top notch organization. Conservatives, moderates, independents and libertarians across the country are all rallying around him and the cash is pouring in.....
I disagree he is a conservative. Of course compared to Obama Nixon anyone is a conservative.
But you're right about the organizational ability. He has done a fantastic job with that and built a real efficient machine that will crush Obama. Assuming he can get straight on a few issues and doesn't come across as Obama-lite, which is what McCain did.
I'd say not only is he a conservative, he is a stunningly courageous one.The left (and a few wing nuts on the right) never tires of pimping the meme that "Mitt" is not "conservative".....What a crock. Mitt is a real conservative and he's an excellent candidate with a top notch organization. Conservatives, moderates, independents and libertarians across the country are all rallying around him and the cash is pouring in.....
I disagree he is a conservative. Of course compared to Obama Nixon anyone is a conservative.
But you're right about the organizational ability. He has done a fantastic job with that and built a real efficient machine that will crush Obama. Assuming he can get straight on a few issues and doesn't come across as Obama-lite, which is what McCain did.
You can disagree all day, his record as Governor of Massachusetts is CONSERVATIVE.
He balanced the budget every year of his administration with out increasing taxes or increasing state dept. Romney turned a $3 billion budget deficit into a $500 million surplus by reducing government spending and added 80,000 new jobs by the end of his term. In 2004, 2005, and 2006 Governor Romney proposed cutting the state income tax from 5.3% to 5.0% but Democratic super majority in the state legislator refused to budge. Romney vetoed 844 pieces of legislation, with over 700 overridden. He vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, saying "there's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs. Under Governor Romney the state abolished a retroactive capital gains tax that would have forced nearly 50,000 taxpayers to pay additional taxes and fees. Massachusetts Citizens For Limited Taxation Executive Director Barbara Anderson praised Romney, saying "There was no one else out on the horizon and with the legislature almost entirely Democratic, we felt it was necessary to have a grown-up in the corner office. And we were right to back him. He's been a really good friend to the taxpayers." SOURCE
What else does he have to do to prove that he's a conservative?
No, your "punch" is not growing. That's the point. The party slid left while the candidates to the libertarian and far right wings failed badly. Both parties are statist. That won't change.
Ron Paul's primary numbers were double to triple what they were in '08, his fundraising likewise. He continues to inspire young people to join the party with the express purpose of reforming it on real limited government principles. They could play an important part in the future of the party. On the other hand, it might turn out that we don't take over the Republican party, but instead pull enough voters away from it to, along with independent, Libertarians and liberty-minded Democrats, build real resistance to the authoritarian status quo that currently dominates. Time will tell.
