Mom of Mauled Boy Says People More Concerned About the Dog

[Wake]

Totally by accident, I stumbled onto a program on the Animal Planet channel, called "Pit bulls and Parolees".

Here was a program that dealt with the pariahs of both the human and canine world.

The breed of dog that receives no mercy, because of an often undeserved reputation, that was created and fostered by irresponsible owners, and humans who are written off by self-righteous hypocritical bigots, who preach about, but don't believe in redemption.

I could have brought to this board a bunch of youtube episodes of the show in order to show that the merciless cruelty of those who jump into execution/euthanasia mode at the drop of a hat, is misplaced, but I will, instead, let those with an open mind find what I am talking about.

I could post at least an equal number of utube videos where pits attack and kill various other animals and humans with no viable provocation. People are supposed to be the intelligent factor in this equation. Pits are genetically coded for certain characteristics. OK, I accept that. But too many irresponsible, foolish, asshole humans own pitbulls...just because of those characteristics. They have no clue about proper training and socialization of the dog. Since controlling human behavior and choices is difficult, at best, maybe we should consider removing the dogs?

I would never condemn and entire breed. I've met some wonderful pit bulls. That doesn't negate the fact that this pit bull killed a dog and should have been put down long before he tore into that child.

I dunno, Sheila. Something about this has the small grapefruit upstairs twitching.

We kill pitbulls for being vicious, yet they behave on a lower mental level.

However, we don't always kill humans for being vicious, and they have a much higher mental level.

Wanna chew on that thought with me, Sheila?

 

[CaféAuLait]

A few things.

• It's a dog. Not a human being. When it comes to the concept of morality, it's not on the level of a human.

• Killing the animal is nonsensical, because it's an animal behaving on instinct.

• Wanting the dog to live is not the same as not caring about what happened to the child.

• I don't think animals premeditate their attacks on people. They behave as they're trained.

The mother was not upset about people wanting the dog to live, she was upset, because people keep saying things like "Mickey will never see the light of day again" ( because he was sentenced to doggie jail) while her son is blinded in one eye and will never be able to eat again correctly. Secondly it was not her who asked to have the dog put down, but the owner of the dog.

The dog killed a German Shepard who entered his 18 foot radius as well, shortly before he neatly killed Kevin.

You are right, animals don't have a concept of morality and their behavior is not just taught. It is instinct and genetics which sometimes makes a vicious dog, no matter how well you train and are good to that dog you can train away genetics.

 

[Wake]

A few things.

• It's a dog. Not a human being. When it comes to the concept of morality, it's not on the level of a human.

• Killing the animal is nonsensical, because it's an animal behaving on instinct.

• Wanting the dog to live is not the same as not caring about what happened to the child.

• I don't think animals premeditate their attacks on people. They behave as they're trained.

The mother was not upset about people wanting the dog to live, she was upset, because people keep saying things like "Mickey will never see the light of day again" ( because he was sentenced to doggie jail) while her son is blinded in one eye and will never be able to eat again correctly. Secondly it was not her who asked to have the dog put down, but the owner of the dog.

The dog killed a German Shepard who entered his 18 foot radius as well, shortly before he neatly killed Kevin.

You are right, animals don't have a concept of morality and their behavior is not just taught. It is instinct and genetics which sometimes makes a vicious dog, no matter how well you train and are good to that dog you can train away genetics.

I see.

The very concept of a "doggie jail," in my opinion, is madness. A dog won't understand why it's there.

Putting the dog down over instinct makes no sense. The onus is on those who raised it. It killing the German Shepard... well, that's tricky. Dogs have little if any understanding of humans owning property, and will attack any interloper within radius if it's raised that way. If the shepard got within range of its leash, that's not the dog's fault. Responsibility is on the owner.

On the genetics/instinct issue, I probably misspoke. I don't completely disregard the flawed notion that pitbulls, for example, are inherently vicious.

 

[Gracie]

For all we know, the pitbull was trained to kill puppies by the owner. Or cats. Or anything that went within it's radius. Again, it comes back to the owner. And the apartment complex idiot managers who allowed the dog to be staked out in the common ground of the property. And the babysitter. Who doesn't keep an eye AT ALL TIMES on a 4 year old???

With that said...the dog should be put down if they refuse to let it be adopted out. No, they want to remove all its teeth and stick it in a cage. Who is going to care for it during it's lifetime? Strangers? Where will it be put forever? In a cage? WTF? Either put it down or let someone adopt it and train it properly. Vicks dogs were trained to kill. They got adopted out.

It is inhumane and cruel to do this to that dog. It is sad what happened to that little boy. But torturing that animal is the ultimate of cruelty.

 

[CaféAuLait]

A few things.

• It's a dog. Not a human being. When it comes to the concept of morality, it's not on the level of a human.

• Killing the animal is nonsensical, because it's an animal behaving on instinct.

• Wanting the dog to live is not the same as not caring about what happened to the child.

• I don't think animals premeditate their attacks on people. They behave as they're trained.

The mother was not upset about people wanting the dog to live, she was upset, because people keep saying things like "Mickey will never see the light of day again" ( because he was sentenced to doggie jail) while her son is blinded in one eye and will never be able to eat again correctly. Secondly it was not her who asked to have the dog put down, but the owner of the dog.

The dog killed a German Shepard who entered his 18 foot radius as well, shortly before he neatly killed Kevin.

You are right, animals don't have a concept of morality and their behavior is not just taught. It is instinct and genetics which sometimes makes a vicious dog, no matter how well you train and are good to that dog you can train away genetics.

I see.

The very concept of a "doggie jail," in my opinion, is madness. A dog won't understand why it's there.

Putting the dog down over instinct makes no sense. The onus is on those who raised it. It killing the German Shepard... well, that's tricky. Dogs have little if any understanding of humans owning property, and will attack any interloper within radius if it's raised that way. If the shepard got within range of its leash, that's not the dog's fault. Responsibility is on the owner.

On the genetics/instinct issue, I probably misspoke. I don't completely disregard the flawed notion that pitbulls, for example, are inherently vicious.

Mickey was chained on an 18 foot chain in the common area , a park like area for play, ( (looking at the photos, picnic tables and swings) of an apartment complex, not in a yard. He was vicious, killing the shepherd and nearly the little boy too.

Kids are not going to think, hey, wait let me see how near that dog can get to me, and likewise a dog running playing with its owner in the common area, wont realize that dog might be able to reach it. Neither will the owner, unless he noted the dog and then checked the length of his chain.

The owner of the dog was sitting with the little boys baby sitter when he was attacked, she knew his penchant for violence, she should have told that sitter, don't let him play with the dog, she did not. She says she feels at fault and that is why she wanted him put down.

IMO the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the owner of Mickey and the apartment complex for allowing Mickey to be chained in a common area and basically live there.

I believe just like humans you will get a bad apple when it comes to dogs. Sometimes humans are mentally deficient and killing comes naturally, I also believe genetics or even brain damage is a factor. Dogs too will have issues due to genetics and when they kill they don't need to be able to have the chance to do it again. Jailing Mickey, pulling his teeth and never allowing him to be adopted is worse than death IMO. That's cruelty.

 

[CaféAuLait]

For all we know, the pitbull was trained to kill puppies by the owner. Or cats. Or anything that went within it's radius. Again, it comes back to the owner. And the apartment complex idiot managers who allowed the dog to be staked out in the common ground of the property. And the babysitter. Who doesn't keep an eye AT ALL TIMES on a 4 year old???

With that said...the dog should be put down if they refuse to let it be adopted out. No, they want to remove all its teeth and stick it in a cage. Who is going to care for it during it's lifetime? Strangers? Where will it be put forever? In a cage? WTF? Either put it down or let someone adopt it and train it properly. Vicks dogs were trained to kill. They got adopted out.

It is inhumane and cruel to do this to that dog. It is sad what happened to that little boy. But torturing that animal is the ultimate of cruelty.

I blamed the sitter until I read that the owner of the dog was there with the boy and never told the sitter he could not play in the area of the dog or with the dog. It I were a sitter, I might believe the owner, and my "friend".

I did not know all of Vicks dogs were adopted out. I thought they had been put down? If so, I'm happy they found homes. : )

 

[Gracie]

Puppies pushed away from their mother and still "saved" by the person watching the birth, should think twice. Sometimes bad dogs are born just like bad people. Ticking time bombs. I think Mickey is one of those dogs maybe. Then again, maybe not. The owner is a moron and SHOULD feel extremely guilty. The judge letting the dog live but live that kind of life should be off the bench. The babysitter was supposed to watch the kid, not sit with the dogs owner and chitchat. The apartment complex is liable for damages to the kid because they ALLOWED the dog to be staked out unattended. At least, in California and all the properties I managed, that was not allowed.

 

[Gracie]

Yes, many of vicks dogs were adopted out. Some were put down due to too severe injuries or were maddened by abuse and there was no instant cure to make insane, sane again. Those that were adopted out are doing very well.

 

[Gracie]

Actually..i would love to have a pair of pliers and a hammer and be in a room with Vicks. Alone. Guaranteed the only one walking back out after much howling would be me.

And with that said..I can tell this is getting to me again so....

/unsubscribed.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

This just goes to show how sick this world have become. To me, what was done to the boy should be done to the dog because it is the only way that the dog would know what it did to the boy.

God bless you and the boy and his mom always!!!

Holly

You think that if they take the dog and tear his face up he will understand "why" and realize the terrible thing he did to the kid? That's ridiculous JOSweetHeart.

Obviously you have not seen the second message that I left in this chat.

This just goes to show how sick this world have become. To me, what was done to the boy should be done to the dog because it is the only way that the dog would know what it did to the boy.

God bless you and the boy and his mom always!!!

Holly

Not only that, but when other dogs read about this or saw it on the news, it would make them think and realize that biting people is a no no.

It would be a deterrent to other dogs, just like the death penalty is a deterrent to human miscreants.

If this dog was put down, we would never see another example of dog bite man/boy, just like we never see another murder, because murderers have been executed.

Right???

Obviously you did not see the second message that I left in this chat either.

And a bible thumper weighs in, says the answer is to torture the dog.

What an idiot ... But not surprising.


=====================

IMO, the dog should be put down.

Well the Bible does say "an eye for an eye" and since the child is still here, why should the dog be taken out as a punishment?

1) JO isn't an idiot. She's a nice person with an opinion that differs from yours (and mine as well ... in this case).

Thank you for saying that.

Idiot Blessing Woman wants to tear the face off the dog, then explain as she tears and rips, "doggie, you must be punished because you hurt the little boy and you are not supposed to hurt the little boy. This was awhile back, but see, this punishment comes now because you must understand that hurting little boys trying to take your bone away is not nice. So I shall tear the other side of your face off as you howl in pain, then I will explain further why this punishment is necessary because you are a dog and understand all I say perfectly"......RIPPPPPPPPPPPPP.

I hope to the God that Idiot Woman that blesses daily, has no pets. Ever. Because she is an idiot.

Thank you for letting me know how much it is that haven't changed since last night. Old habits dies hard, I guess. Well guess what? Some wounds never heal and the wounds that may be forever on that child is no exception.

God bless you five always!!!

Holly

P.S. It isn't like another bone couldn't have been found for the animal to feast on instead of the face of a child who can not just go out and get themselves another one.

 

[Wake]

Mickey was chained on an 18 foot chain in the common area , a park like area for play, ( (looking at the photos, picnic tables and swings) of an apartment complex, not in a yard. He was vicious, killing the shepherd and nearly the little boy too.

Kids are not going to think, hey, wait let me see how near that dog can get to me, and likewise a dog running playing with its owner in the common area, wont realize that dog might be able to reach it. Neither will the owner, unless he noted the dog and then checked the length of his chain.

The owner of the dog was sitting with the little boys baby sitter when he was attacked, she knew his penchant for violence, she should have told that sitter, don't let him play with the dog, she did not. She says she feels at fault and that is why she wanted him put down.

IMO the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the owner of Mickey and the apartment complex for allowing Mickey to be chained in a common area and basically live there.

I believe just like humans you will get a bad apple when it comes to dogs. Sometimes humans are mentally deficient and killing comes naturally, I also believe genetics or even brain damage is a factor. Dogs too will have issues due to genetics and when they kill they don't need to be able to have the chance to do it again. Jailing Mickey, pulling his teeth and never allowing him to be adopted is worse than death IMO. That's cruelty.

Hm... You bring some good points and facts to the table, and I thank you for that.

The shmuck who chained up that dog in the wrong place should take responsibility for his actions. It's like if someone put a bee-box full of bees in the middle of a park. Instead of incinerating the hive and its honey, take the guy (a woman, was it?) who put it there to task.

I think it's not the chained dog's fault at all, nor is it the fault of the dog/kid that were harmed. It would seem insensitive to say they weren't wary of their surroundings.

We both agree on the owner taking responsibility for her unwise actions. If the guys running the apartment complex knew and allowed the owner to do that, then fie on them, too.

You raise a good point about there being bad apples among not just humans, but dogs as well. I'd like to persue that discussion with you here or elsewhere because it's really quite interesting. I think that some dogs, not whole breeds, can have physiological/mental issues. I do disagree with you a bit about killing violent dogs who have killed, though. If we do it with dogs who are of a lower mental capacity, then we certainly should do so with like humans, because they don't. It would seem the majority of living things in this scenario made poor choices...

 

[Coyote]

A few things.

• It's a dog. Not a human being. When it comes to the concept of morality, it's not on the level of a human.

• Killing the animal is nonsensical, because it's an animal behaving on instinct.

• Wanting the dog to live is not the same as not caring about what happened to the child.

• I don't think animals premeditate their attacks on people. They behave as they're trained.

They behave according to their instincts - they are strangers in a strange land, living by and expecting to understand human (primate) rules. It's a foreign language, and it's up to us to help them be good citizens in a human world.

Too often we fail at our responsibilities.

I think the public needs further education when it comes to responsible dog ownership. Not only that, but owners need to take full responsibility for what their dogs do, within reason.

The poor mother is heavily influenced by her anger and sorrow. Her judgement is affected.

Not just owners but parents too need to educate their children on how to behave around dogs. I can't tell you how many times I've had children run up to my dogs yelling "doggie doggie" while the parents just smile indulgently.

 

[Coyote]

They behave according to their instincts - they are strangers in a strange land, living by and expecting to understand human (primate) rules. It's a foreign language, and it's up to us to help them be good citizens in a human world.

Too often we fail at our responsibilities.

I think the public needs further education when it comes to responsible dog ownership. Not only that, but owners need to take full responsibility for what their dogs do, within reason.

The poor mother is heavily influenced by her anger and sorrow. Her judgement is affected.

We don't have room in this society for vicious dogs. The dog should have been put down when he killed the other dog. We had a dog when I was growing up that got out and killed two of my friend's cats. We had to put our dog down. I was told he was taken to a farm and it wasn't until I was an adult that I found out what happened. I agree with the decision. Once a dog has killed it will do so again.

I don't agree with that because the reasons a dog killed something matter more than the fact he killed something.

Dogs are predators first and formost. If a dog kills a cat - in the dog's view it's no different than killing a chipmunk or rabbit - it's a prey drive behavior. Often when a dog kills a much smaller dog - it's the same thing - prey behavior. Would you kill a dog for killling a chipmunk?

Because a dog kills a cat, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will maul a child or kill another dog.

 

[Coyote]

This just goes to show how sick this world have become. To me, what was done to the boy should be done to the dog because it is the only way that the dog would know what it did to the boy.

God bless you and the boy and his mom always!!!

Holly

That is sick.

Dogs are dogs - not humans. They don't understand human rules and they certainly won't understand why you are torturing them. Dogs do not think like humans, they think like dogs.

If a child pulls the wings off a fly, should we pull his arms off so he would understand what he did?

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ A fly is not the same as a dog or a person. Why should the dog get away with what was done to the child whether the dog knows that it is guilty of it or not?

God bless you and the child always!!!

Holly

P.S. Flies only last for a day anyways whether anything is done to them or not.

 

[Coyote]

^^^ Why should the dog get away with what was done to the child whether the dog knows that it is guilty of it or not?

God bless you and the child always!!!

Holly

This is the most strange sentiment I've seen expressed.

You are advocating torturing another creature for what it did regardless of wither it new it did anything wrong?

Ok.

So answer me then:

If a child ripped the wings off a fly, should we tear his arms off?
If a child shoves a pencil down the ear of his infant brother should we shove a pencil down his ear (so he doesn't get away with anything)?

Or...is it only animals you like to torture

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ A fly is not the same as a dog or a person. Why should the dog get away with what was done to the child whether the dog knows that it is guilty of it or not? Also if a child did such a thing to another person, they would most likely get worse, but since this is a dog that we are talking about and as you say they do not understand what they do like a person does, I believe that what they do to a person should be done to them and since the dog that is being talked about here is not guilty of killing anyone, why should it be killed?

God bless you and the child always!!!

Holly

P.S. Flies only last for a day anyways whether anything is done to them or not.

 

[Coyote]

^^^ A fly is not the same as a dog or a person. Why should the dog get away with what was done to the child whether the dog knows that it is guilty of it or not? Also if a child did such a thing to another person, they would most likely get worse, but since this is a dog that we are talking about and as you say they do not understand what they do like a person does, I believe that what they do to a person should be done to them and since the dog that is being talked about here is not guilty of killing anyone, why should it be killed?

God bless you and the child always!!!

Holly

P.S. Flies only last for a day anyways whether anything is done to them or not.

What would be accomplished by torturing the dog?

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ Justice. Why should the dog get away with what it did to the boy?

God bless you and the boy always!!!

Holly

P.S. The boy may have to live with what the dog did to him for the rest of his life which is why I think that doggy jail is not enough.

 

[Katzndogz]

The dog has a permanent home. I hope he is happy there. He deserves to have a good life.

Oh. God bless this dog and all dogs always.