More economic GOOD News...DOW hits new record..on track to hit 17K.

[Sallow]

so the market is down like 700 points in the last few weeks. what is your boy trying to do? crash the market again?

You're off by a couple of hundred points.

In any case? Even down 700? It's not at all bad.

Actually, I expect it to go down a bit as more people get jobs and the Fed eases QE.

 

[RKMBrown]

so the market is down like 700 points in the last few weeks. what is your boy trying to do? crash the market again?

You're off by a couple of hundred points.

In any case? Even down 700? It's not at all bad.

Actually, I expect it to go down a bit as more people get jobs and the Fed eases QE.

I don't expect QE to ease till we get a republican president.

 

[Zander]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!

Dow Average and S&P 500 Hit New Highs
Stocks Notch Records as Beaten-Down Shares Mount a Rally

nvestors snapped up shares of companies large and small, driving major indexes to records and reviving beaten-down technology stocks.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 112.13 points, or 0.7%, to 16695.47, notching its second record finish in as many sessions and its third new high of 2014. The Dow notched 52 records in 2013.

The S&P 500 added 18.17 points, or 1%, to 1896.65, squeezing out its ninth record close of the year.

That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

^^^^Here is the OP from May 13^^^^

It is now August 8th. - 3 months later.

The Dow is lower today that it was then.

Sallow calls this "good news"?

I call it wishful thinking.

 

[Faun]

so the market is down like 700 points in the last few weeks. what is your boy trying to do? crash the market again?

You're off by a couple of hundred points.

In any case? Even down 700? It's not at all bad.

Actually, I expect it to go down a bit as more people get jobs and the Fed eases QE.

I don't expect QE to ease till we get a republican president.

That won't be to at least 2025.

 

[Sallow]

so the market is down like 700 points in the last few weeks. what is your boy trying to do? crash the market again?

You're off by a couple of hundred points.

In any case? Even down 700? It's not at all bad.

Actually, I expect it to go down a bit as more people get jobs and the Fed eases QE.

I don't expect QE to ease till we get a republican president.

You expect wrong.

It's already been easing.

 

[Sallow]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!

Dow Average and S&P 500 Hit New Highs
Stocks Notch Records as Beaten-Down Shares Mount a Rally

nvestors snapped up shares of companies large and small, driving major indexes to records and reviving beaten-down technology stocks.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 112.13 points, or 0.7%, to 16695.47, notching its second record finish in as many sessions and its third new high of 2014. The Dow notched 52 records in 2013.

The S&P 500 added 18.17 points, or 1%, to 1896.65, squeezing out its ninth record close of the year.

That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

^^^^Here is the OP from May 13^^^^

It is now August 8th. - 3 months later.

The Dow is lower today that it was then.

Sallow calls this "good news"?

I call it wishful thinking.

Actually I do.

 

[Zander]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!



That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

^^^^Here is the OP from May 13^^^^

It is now August 8th. - 3 months later.

The Dow is lower today that it was then.

Sallow calls this "good news"?

I call it wishful thinking.

Actually I do.

I think it's just partisan cheerleading.

You believe that the stock market has risen because of Obama. The real question is - since you're assigning him the credit for it's rise....if the stock market drops will you give the blame to Obama?

 

[driveby]

Can the foaming at the mouth, "rich don't pay their fair share", moonbat OP tell us why wages have been so stagnant? After all, his dear leader has been riding around on his unicorn spreading economic pixie dust around for nearly six years......

 

[Andylusion]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!

Dow Average and S&P 500 Hit New Highs
Stocks Notch Records as Beaten-Down Shares Mount a Rally

nvestors snapped up shares of companies large and small, driving major indexes to records and reviving beaten-down technology stocks.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 112.13 points, or 0.7%, to 16695.47, notching its second record finish in as many sessions and its third new high of 2014. The Dow notched 52 records in 2013.

The S&P 500 added 18.17 points, or 1%, to 1896.65, squeezing out its ninth record close of the year.

That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

And the sun came up today! Obama's policies are causing the sun to go up every single day! Wow... all hail Obama!

Obama's policies are a failure. The economy is slowly... very slowly recovered in spite of those bad policies.

 

[KissMy]

Can the foaming at the mouth, "rich don't pay their fair share", moonbat OP tell us why wages have been so stagnant? After all, his dear leader has been riding around on his unicorn spreading economic pixie dust around for nearly six years......

Why don't you enlighten us as to why wages have been so stagnant? Please give details & show your work.

 

[Faun]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!

Dow Average and S&P 500 Hit New Highs
Stocks Notch Records as Beaten-Down Shares Mount a Rally

nvestors snapped up shares of companies large and small, driving major indexes to records and reviving beaten-down technology stocks.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 112.13 points, or 0.7%, to 16695.47, notching its second record finish in as many sessions and its third new high of 2014. The Dow notched 52 records in 2013.

The S&P 500 added 18.17 points, or 1%, to 1896.65, squeezing out its ninth record close of the year.

That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

And the sun came up today! Obama's policies are causing the sun to go up every single day! Wow... all hail Obama!

Obama's policies are a failure. The economy is slowly... very slowly recovered in spite of those bad policies.

I find it adorable how the right block Obama at every opportunity ... and then claim his policies aren't working.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Andylusion]

Read it an weep gloom and doom conserverinos!



That along with a great April jobs report should really be making you folks cry.

And the sun came up today! Obama's policies are causing the sun to go up every single day! Wow... all hail Obama!

Obama's policies are a failure. The economy is slowly... very slowly recovered in spite of those bad policies.

I find it adorable how the right block Obama at every opportunity ... and then claim his policies aren't working.

Funny I could have sworn the Stimulus bill was passed. Could have sworn ObamaCare was passed. Could have sworn CARD act was passed, the Dodd-Frank act was passed, and a half dozen others.

Now magically the Republicans blocked everything, and we can't possibly blame bad Obama policies.

You people are freakin nutz.

 

[RKMBrown]

Can the foaming at the mouth, "rich don't pay their fair share", moonbat OP tell us why wages have been so stagnant? After all, his dear leader has been riding around on his unicorn spreading economic pixie dust around for nearly six years......

Why don't you enlighten us as to why wages have been so stagnant? Please give details & show your work.

Wages are stagnant because older more experienced workers are getting laid off and early retirement, and corporations are focused on hiring young fresh-outs and and foreign workers who are willing to accept lower pay. During the dot com boom it was the opposite... corporations could not find enough workers and wanted experienced workers to help them expand. Now we are in a shrinking economy... Well, shrinking from the perspective of the average private sector income earner's perspective. It's a good time to be a high paid federal worker. Those guys are raking in the big bucks.

 

[Andylusion]

Can the foaming at the mouth, "rich don't pay their fair share", moonbat OP tell us why wages have been so stagnant? After all, his dear leader has been riding around on his unicorn spreading economic pixie dust around for nearly six years......

Why don't you enlighten us as to why wages have been so stagnant? Please give details & show your work.

Wages are stagnant because older more experienced workers are getting laid off and early retirement, and corporations are focused on hiring young fresh-outs and and foreign workers who are willing to accept lower pay. During the dot com boom it was the opposite... corporations could not find enough workers and wanted experienced workers to help them expand. Now we are in a shrinking economy... Well, shrinking from the perspective of the average private sector income earner's perspective. It's a good time to be a high paid federal worker. Those guys are raking in the big bucks.

First off, prices are going up because the minimum wage has gone up. All those states that have increased their state minimum wages above the Federal minimum wage, are all having an effect. (Ohio raised theirs to $8/hr for example).

The reason that wages have not kept pace with inflation in the last 5 years is because the minimum wage doesn't affect those wages over $30K or more. You don't earn $35K a year, and go to your boss demanding another 50¢ an hour, because the minimum wage went up.

Nevertheless, when the minimum wage goes up, the cost of all goods go up with it. All those additional labor costs, are passed on to the customer. So prices go up, and yet your higher wage ($30K plus), remains the same.

As to why wages have been more flat over all....

There are two reason.

First, ObamaCare. I just don't understand why people don't grasp that wages and costly regulations are connected.

If your company has to pay a ton more money for mandated health insurance.... dur.... that leaves less money for wage increases.

The money that could have been used to pay employees more, went to the insurance companies, thanks to mandates that pushed up prices.

It's that simple.

Second, 'household income'. Most of the government wage statistics are based on household income. Household income works great, if the cultural family life in the country is stable. But it's not stable. It has changed drastically.

In the 1970s and before, you would have the Husband earning $60K, the wife earning $40K, and the son/daughter earning $20K, all in the same household, making $120K a year.

Well now the son/daughter goes off to college and rents an apartment, and the husband and wife divorce, and now you take one household making $120K, and split it into 3 households making $60K, $40K, $20K.

It doesn't take a super math genius to figure out that the cultural norms of Modern America, make the statistics look terrible.

 

[RKMBrown]

Why don't you enlighten us as to why wages have been so stagnant? Please give details & show your work.

Wages are stagnant because older more experienced workers are getting laid off and early retirement, and corporations are focused on hiring young fresh-outs and and foreign workers who are willing to accept lower pay. During the dot com boom it was the opposite... corporations could not find enough workers and wanted experienced workers to help them expand. Now we are in a shrinking economy... Well, shrinking from the perspective of the average private sector income earner's perspective. It's a good time to be a high paid federal worker. Those guys are raking in the big bucks.

First off, prices are going up because the minimum wage has gone up. All those states that have increased their state minimum wages above the Federal minimum wage, are all having an effect. (Ohio raised theirs to $8/hr for example).

The reason that wages have not kept pace with inflation in the last 5 years is because the minimum wage doesn't affect those wages over $30K or more. You don't earn $35K a year, and go to your boss demanding another 50¢ an hour, because the minimum wage went up.

Nevertheless, when the minimum wage goes up, the cost of all goods go up with it. All those additional labor costs, are passed on to the customer. So prices go up, and yet your higher wage ($30K plus), remains the same.

As to why wages have been more flat over all....

There are two reason.

First, ObamaCare. I just don't understand why people don't grasp that wages and costly regulations are connected.

If your company has to pay a ton more money for mandated health insurance.... dur.... that leaves less money for wage increases.

The money that could have been used to pay employees more, went to the insurance companies, thanks to mandates that pushed up prices.

It's that simple.

Second, 'household income'. Most of the government wage statistics are based on household income. Household income works great, if the cultural family life in the country is stable. But it's not stable. It has changed drastically.

In the 1970s and before, you would have the Husband earning $60K, the wife earning $40K, and the son/daughter earning $20K, all in the same household, making $120K a year.

Well now the son/daughter goes off to college and rents an apartment, and the husband and wife divorce, and now you take one household making $120K, and split it into 3 households making $60K, $40K, $20K.

It doesn't take a super math genius to figure out that the cultural norms of Modern America, make the statistics look terrible.

Thx I left off the increased cost of health care benefits. But the wage issue is not tied to family unity. Household income is a separate issue.

 

[Andylusion]

Wages are stagnant because older more experienced workers are getting laid off and early retirement, and corporations are focused on hiring young fresh-outs and and foreign workers who are willing to accept lower pay. During the dot com boom it was the opposite... corporations could not find enough workers and wanted experienced workers to help them expand. Now we are in a shrinking economy... Well, shrinking from the perspective of the average private sector income earner's perspective. It's a good time to be a high paid federal worker. Those guys are raking in the big bucks.

First off, prices are going up because the minimum wage has gone up. All those states that have increased their state minimum wages above the Federal minimum wage, are all having an effect. (Ohio raised theirs to $8/hr for example).

The reason that wages have not kept pace with inflation in the last 5 years is because the minimum wage doesn't affect those wages over $30K or more. You don't earn $35K a year, and go to your boss demanding another 50¢ an hour, because the minimum wage went up.

Nevertheless, when the minimum wage goes up, the cost of all goods go up with it. All those additional labor costs, are passed on to the customer. So prices go up, and yet your higher wage ($30K plus), remains the same.

As to why wages have been more flat over all....

There are two reason.

First, ObamaCare. I just don't understand why people don't grasp that wages and costly regulations are connected.

If your company has to pay a ton more money for mandated health insurance.... dur.... that leaves less money for wage increases.

The money that could have been used to pay employees more, went to the insurance companies, thanks to mandates that pushed up prices.

It's that simple.

Second, 'household income'. Most of the government wage statistics are based on household income. Household income works great, if the cultural family life in the country is stable. But it's not stable. It has changed drastically.

In the 1970s and before, you would have the Husband earning $60K, the wife earning $40K, and the son/daughter earning $20K, all in the same household, making $120K a year.

Well now the son/daughter goes off to college and rents an apartment, and the husband and wife divorce, and now you take one household making $120K, and split it into 3 households making $60K, $40K, $20K.

It doesn't take a super math genius to figure out that the cultural norms of Modern America, make the statistics look terrible.

Thx I left off the increased cost of health care benefits. But the wage issue is not tied to family unity. Household income is a separate issue.

Last numbers I found, they used household income.

Which numbers are you using?

 

[Sallow]

Can the foaming at the mouth, "rich don't pay their fair share", moonbat OP tell us why wages have been so stagnant? After all, his dear leader has been riding around on his unicorn spreading economic pixie dust around for nearly six years......

In a word? Reagan.

In a bigger word? Conservatives.

 

[RKMBrown]

First off, prices are going up because the minimum wage has gone up. All those states that have increased their state minimum wages above the Federal minimum wage, are all having an effect. (Ohio raised theirs to $8/hr for example).

The reason that wages have not kept pace with inflation in the last 5 years is because the minimum wage doesn't affect those wages over $30K or more. You don't earn $35K a year, and go to your boss demanding another 50¢ an hour, because the minimum wage went up.

Nevertheless, when the minimum wage goes up, the cost of all goods go up with it. All those additional labor costs, are passed on to the customer. So prices go up, and yet your higher wage ($30K plus), remains the same.

As to why wages have been more flat over all....

There are two reason.

First, ObamaCare. I just don't understand why people don't grasp that wages and costly regulations are connected.

If your company has to pay a ton more money for mandated health insurance.... dur.... that leaves less money for wage increases.

The money that could have been used to pay employees more, went to the insurance companies, thanks to mandates that pushed up prices.

It's that simple.

Second, 'household income'. Most of the government wage statistics are based on household income. Household income works great, if the cultural family life in the country is stable. But it's not stable. It has changed drastically.

In the 1970s and before, you would have the Husband earning $60K, the wife earning $40K, and the son/daughter earning $20K, all in the same household, making $120K a year.

Well now the son/daughter goes off to college and rents an apartment, and the husband and wife divorce, and now you take one household making $120K, and split it into 3 households making $60K, $40K, $20K.

It doesn't take a super math genius to figure out that the cultural norms of Modern America, make the statistics look terrible.

Thx I left off the increased cost of health care benefits. But the wage issue is not tied to family unity. Household income is a separate issue.

Last numbers I found, they used household income.

Which numbers are you using?

Personal income...

Summaries here:
Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Data from here:
PINC-01--Part 1

There are a number of ways to try to explain the changes to personal income. When you look at professional wages being flat and/or being lowered, one may point to offshoring, early retirement, layoffs, freshout hiring programs, and h1b visa programs designed reduce said salary base.

When you look at the overall average wage going down you can also point to changing demographics, with more uneducated immigrants your gonna have a lower average personal income. This mirrors the average scores that go down when you bring in kids with no education. Zero's bring the averages down by a large margin. Not to just blame immigrants, we also can blame welfare. Any program designed to benefit people who work part time at 30hrs minimum wage by giving them checks to stay that way is gonna set the low bar for work to 30hrs minimum wage. Duh...

 

[Andylusion]

Thx I left off the increased cost of health care benefits. But the wage issue is not tied to family unity. Household income is a separate issue.

Last numbers I found, they used household income.

Which numbers are you using?

Personal income...

Summaries here:
Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Data from here:
PINC-01--Part 1

There are a number of ways to try to explain the changes to personal income. When you look at professional wages being flat and/or being lowered, one may point to offshoring, early retirement, layoffs, freshout hiring programs, and h1b visa programs designed reduce said salary base.

When you look at the overall average wage going down you can also point to changing demographics, with more uneducated immigrants your gonna have a lower average personal income. This mirrors the average scores that go down when you bring in kids with no education. Zero's bring the averages down by a large margin. Not to just blame immigrants, we also can blame welfare. Any program designed to benefit people who work part time at 30hrs minimum wage by giving them checks to stay that way is gonna set the low bar for work to 30hrs minimum wage. Duh...

First, the second link, was from CPS data.

CPS data which is conducted through the US Census B, is based on household income. They go to a persons home, and ask how much their household income is. That is exactly what I was referring to above. As students no longer stay at home, and as divorce breaks families apart, the numbers go down.

Your Wiki link, actually validates my claims:

The Census Bureau releases estimates of household money income as medians, percent distributions by income categories, and on a per capita basis.

The wiki article also refers to the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), which does a completely different survey. What they do, is look at payroll numbers. The problem with the BEA, is the reverse equal opposite problem.

With the CPS, you look at household income, because you know everyone is sharing resources, and thus even though the teenage college student is minimum wage, working part time, earning only $10,000 a year, he's not living poor. He's actually living in a very nice home, with all the food an amenities he could want. He's not paying rent, not paying for food, not paying for much of anything.

It's logical to combine those incomes.

In the BEA, you look at each person as an individual tax unit. After all, it's from payroll data.

But then you have a problem. Two people, not married, shacking up together. According to the BEA data, they would be counted as completely separate tax units, when in reality they are sharing all resources together, just like a real married couple would. But in the data, they would be counted separately.

So they could have a household income of $100K, while in the data have a $60K and $40K income, including their student son, making $10K while going to school.

So let's look at some of your points:

When you look at professional wages being flat and/or being lowered, one may point to offshoring, early retirement, layoffs, freshout hiring programs, and h1b visa programs designed reduce said salary base.

Does off-shoring lower wages? Possibly, but only if you assume those jobs would exist either way.

There is a myth that off-shoring is this super rich guy earning $250 Million a year, and found out that if he off-shores, he can earn $250.1 Million.

That's simply not the case in the vast majority of situations. I work for a company that outsourced the building of our CPU boards. Originally we built them in-house. Now they are out sourced to China. The CEO said very openly that he did this because, the only other alternative was to close. Our customers were not willing to pay enough to make in-house builds profitable. The company would have closed. The only choice was to off-shore the production. Without off-shoring, there might be more higher paying jobs.... for a time. Until the company closed.

Same is true for layoffs. GM didn't lay off anyone until they went bankrupt, then they laid off a ton of people. Better a few people now, then a ton later.

Same with early retirement. If the company is willing to pay you to leave, there's a reason.

I'm not sure how fresh out programs, harm wage rates, unless you assume that grads would not join the labor market without the program. You'll have to explain that one to me.