CDZ More re: Behaviors - What percentage of people on USMB...

[Toro]

You’ll hear on the liberal coasts after a few glasses of wine or scotch highly educated and intelligent people, after Trump’s victory, questioning democracy, and by that I mean “rubes” in flyover country being allowed to vote. It’s pretty appalling.

As much of an embarrassment and worry I might have with Trump as President, he won fair and square, and he is the legitimate POTUS. Democracy means accepting results you don’t like or agree with.

 

[Mindful]

Well here's a real world test for that, if you've found yourself in some political discussion, benignly ask if the nation is headed towards civil war
I should have recoorded the reponses i've recieved...

Wow, I'm sure. That's a great question to start the fireworks.

And I'd guess that the floodgates would open pretty quickly, with comments they have made many times in the past. A lot of this stuff seems canned.

And no doubt the answers would be far different today than twenty years ago.
.

Yeah Mac, i'm admittedly an instigator when i can get away w/it.......of course i'm talking bluecollar rednecks on construction sites.....not exactly the cream of societies crop......lotta stereotypical dumber than toast sorts wearing tough guy personas

The interesting thing is , they'll go full circle with some civil war fantasy , many with wild accusations and opposing views .......only to end up looking at each other in a group epiphay that if one of us gets cut, we all bleed....

Twenty , Fourty, Sixty years ago......same deal>>>

~S~

That hasn't been my experience personally, but I hope you're right. What I usually see is this wild-eyed, canned, binary diatribe that is very similar to the stuff we see here, with no interest in either resolution or calm dialogue.

But your scenario, some kind of ultimate epiphany of reason, would be nice to see more often.
.

Many folks want to vent spleen.

I wanna guard my spleen.

You certainly don't want to waste it on some miscreant or other.

So many to choose from.

 

[Olde Europe]

The interesting thing is , they'll go full circle with some civil war fantasy , many with wild accusations and opposing views .......only to end up looking at each other in a group epiphay that if one of us gets cut, we all bleed....

Twenty , Fourty, Sixty years ago......same deal>>>

~S~

Good one, Sparky. And the same deal 160 years ago. The story book patently never changes. The "working class" divided, groups pitted against each other, in order more easily to govern the rubes and keep them distracted with Native Americans, Blacks, Chinese, Irish, Mexicans, Muslims, what have you, all in the service of the Plutocracy raking it in hand over fist. That's insanity, but not without method.

Of course, not "all" bleed. Just those who actually have to put in an honest day's work to pay the rent, just barely.

Were Mac to shed some light on the policy background both concealed and enabled by the divisions he decries, his postings actually would have some merit. Instead, he's content on dumping on everyone around, shedding light on nothing other than his super "superior-ness". That's not helpful.

 

[Marion Morrison]

You’ll hear on the liberal coasts after a few glasses of wine or scotch highly educated and intelligent people, after Trump’s victory, questioning democracy, and by that I mean “rubes” in flyover country being allowed to vote. It’s pretty appalling.

As much of an embarrassment and worry I might have with Trump as President, he won fair and square, and he is the legitimate POTUS. Democracy means accepting results you don’t like or agree with.

What the snobbish dorks don't realize: That meat or the soy crap they consume doesn't come from nowhere. You piss somebody off the wrong way, and that stuff will not be at your local market.

 

[Mac1958]

You’ll hear on the liberal coasts after a few glasses of wine or scotch highly educated and intelligent people, after Trump’s victory, questioning democracy, and by that I mean “rubes” in flyover country being allowed to vote. It’s pretty appalling.

As much of an embarrassment and worry I might have with Trump as President, he won fair and square, and he is the legitimate POTUS. Democracy means accepting results you don’t like or agree with.

I literally have to watch every word and facial expression when talking with clients. If I slip, and if they perceive I'm on their "side", off they go, and the REAL stuff comes out.

Wow wow wow.

So I just try to keep a poker face and change the subject as quickly as possible.


.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And hey, maybe acting out like that helps some people. Holy crap, if that's the case, that's a great service for free.

It's great for the planet also -- not so many busted up TVs... Twitter is the ultimate in "rage generators" because Twitter has no topical framework. USMB is the virtual cathartic punching bag of social media.. At least we make them EXPLAIN their delusions and faux outrages..

I would love to know what motivates people to go through life like that, what they feel they have accomplished after such an altercation.

It's been a long social conditioning IMO.. That's why there was the rise and fall of "reality TV".. It's manufactured drama with yee olde freak show characters right out of Barnum/Bailey.. But what's happened is -- no one NEEDS Honey Boo Boo or the Kardarshian to kick around anymore because they've got wall to wall faux drama and conflict and emotion on Cable News and a media that's determined to capitalize on the "Barnum suckers"... Thanks to the Prez, the 535 members of Congress, outrage media superstars, and most rocks for brains Hollywood elite.

It's just a way to be part of show.. Look at the "intellectual engagement" on USMB. It's not anything from Real Life. Folks living vicariously believing they are part of the action and plot line. Like rushing to get their names on the OP for every breaking rumor or fake news outrage. THIS IS -- what media has always wanted.

Gonna go back and read the Marshall McLuhan that impressed me 30 years ago and see if he was actually a prophet. Remember "The Media IS the Message"? Found a way to make every US voter a cast member..

What are you saying, Flacaltenn? That we don't need Boo Boo or Kardashian to kick around? So kicking each other around is a much more primal need? Create our own reality TV?

Even chemistry can travel through the inner tubes.

All that pop culture Reality TV show fad was a Grande Spectacle of freakdom. But the problem was, you couldn't RECRUIT the masses into feeling that they were a part of it. The latest mini-series of misery between 2 old codgers that should have taken place in an Old Age Home --- was ACTUALLY 3 of the most powerful people in America acting like children over politics. The Pelosi-Schumer-Trump episode that is.

It's PARTICIPATION reality TV with paper and web presence as well. It is NOT REAL. Because it's farcical drama for winning power. Not running a country. YOU can be a cast member just by picking up your mobile device and having a REDUX match with some other jerk 1200 miles away.. And if you're Hollywood B list, failed comic for example -- YOU can be the star of any episode just by posing with a bloody head on Twitter.


You can tell by the tone and content on social media that hardly ANY of the addicted zealots treat these episodes with any Real Life respect for consequences. It becomes "all personal". And becomes a contest between the SAME 2 sides that do the actual fighting in Washington and elsewhere. Govt leadership devolves into juvenile cartoonish trolling and so goes the nation. With the MEDIA never having to check a story for any factual content. It's now infotainment with the Blue Team and Red Team providing all the content.

The MEDIA has BECOME the Message. Just like McCluhan wrote about 30 years ago.

And Mac has got it right. The interactions we SEE here on USMB are not human individuals sorting information and doing critical thinking. It's folks ACTING as cast extras in a whole fabricated infotainment engagement that has EATEN America politics and leadership RAW...

I read McCluhen nearly 50 years ago, so he couldn't have written it 30 years ago.

He was already dead 30 years ago.

 

[harmonica]

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

....a lot of the ''racism'' that people on USMB and the MSM/blacks/etc call racism is not really racism at all = this is undeniable and proven many times--ie:
the dumbass Covington story !!!!!!!!!
...so this really screws/skews any stats
...USMB memebers/entertainers/MSM/ FALSELY accuse people of being racists---a lot

why wouldn't I state facts and truths in public??

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You’ll hear on the liberal coasts after a few glasses of wine or scotch highly educated and intelligent people, after Trump’s victory, questioning democracy, and by that I mean “rubes” in flyover country being allowed to vote. It’s pretty appalling.

As much of an embarrassment and worry I might have with Trump as President, he won fair and square, and he is the legitimate POTUS. Democracy means accepting results you don’t like or agree with.

There was an operative here paid by the Hillary campaign who posted endless longwinded screeds about how the left was smart and the right stupid, an obvious appeal to those who were insecure about their intelligence. Ah, yes, all it takes to prove one's intelligence is to vote for the candidate another person has chosen for you.

Somehow those advancing the myth of the uneducated rubes never seems to get around to discussing any group other than white people. The voting patterns of severely undereducated inner city minorities is well established, yet the same people trying to advance the meme that left = smart never quite get around to addressing it.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, Mac has a point, even while his point is thoroughly lacking in nuance. The downside is, he's taken the intellectually lazy path of discussing posters, as opposed to actual politics or policies. And that is why, for as long as I have watched him doing his shtick, he contributed exactly nothing to "human individuals sorting information and doing critical thinking". All we got was the unspeakable drama Mac's needy self-elevation above the fray of partisan warfare, with an added 20/20 in the form of, "Either agree with me and confirm my point, or disagree with me and reinforce my point". That's all well thought out, and pursued with enormous stamina over at least two years, but it adds exactly nothing by way of shedding light on actual politics.

Wow! You win the internet!

 

[JoeB131]

Do you think this particular reaction to loss has become more prevalent?

We're not REQUIRED to get angry and attack. This is a CHOICE we make.

yes, when the Nazis take over your country, you can get angry and attack, or walk placidly into the ovens.

I'm going with option A.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

....a lot of the ''racism'' that people on USMB and the MSM/blacks/etc call racism is not really racism at all = this is undeniable and proven many times--ie:
the dumbass Covington story !!!!!!!!!
...so this really screws/skews any stats
...USMB memebers/entertainers/MSM/ FALSELY accuse people of being racists---a lot

why wouldn't I state facts and truths in public??

As it has come to be used by those practitioners of identity politics, a person is a "racist" if they object in any way to all the hatred directed their way by people of color.

Unless one is racist against white people in today's soiciety, they are considered a racist.

 

[JoeB131]

You’ll hear on the liberal coasts after a few glasses of wine or scotch highly educated and intelligent people, after Trump’s victory, questioning democracy, and by that I mean “rubes” in flyover country being allowed to vote. It’s pretty appalling.

As much of an embarrassment and worry I might have with Trump as President, he won fair and square, and he is the legitimate POTUS. Democracy means accepting results you don’t like or agree with.

He didn't win "fair and square". He lost by 3 million votes and it's becoming clearer the Russians helped him.

I guess the big problem I have is that the "rubes" never seem to learn. They get beaten up recession after recession, usually caused when the One Percenters decide they don't have enough money and monkey with the system, the rubes go right back to voting for some rich guy who wouldn't give them the time of day most of the time.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Well here's a real world test for that, if you've found yourself in some political discussion, benignly ask if the nation is headed towards civil war
I should have recoorded the reponses i've recieved...

Wow, I'm sure. That's a great question to start the fireworks.

And I'd guess that the floodgates would open pretty quickly, with comments they have made many times in the past. A lot of this stuff seems canned.

And no doubt the answers would be far different today than twenty years ago.
.

Yeah Mac, i'm admittedly an instigator when i can get away w/it.......of course i'm talking bluecollar rednecks on construction sites.....not exactly the cream of societies crop......lotta stereotypical dumber than toast sorts wearing tough guy personas

The interesting thing is , they'll go full circle with some civil war fantasy , many with wild accusations and opposing views .......only to end up looking at each other in a group epiphay that if one of us gets cut, we all bleed....

Twenty , Fourty, Sixty years ago......same deal>>>

~S~

That hasn't been my experience personally, but I hope you're right. What I usually see is this wild-eyed, canned, binary diatribe that is very similar to the stuff we see here, with no interest in either resolution or calm dialogue.

But your scenario, some kind of ultimate epiphany of reason, would be nice to see more often.
.

What we see here for the most part is extremely conformist members of a tribe going after members of the other tribe. It's all about identity rather than principles.

IRL, most people do not hang out with those not of their tribe, so they exist in an echo chamber. Since they exist in an echo chamber, they just cannot believe that anybody else might disagree with them.

 

[JoeB131]

As it has come to be used by those practitioners of identity politics, a person is a "racist" if they object in any way to all the hatred directed their way by people of color.

So how does people of color not liking you effect your life in any way?

The thing is, being white and male and straight is a HUGE advantage in this society, because most of the other decision makers are white, straight and male. So the lady of color might sneer at you, when you get preferential treatment at a business, but she really doesn't have the institutional power to make your life any more difficult.

 

[JoeB131]

What we see here for the most part is extremely conformist members of a tribe going after members of the other tribe. It's all about identity rather than principles.

IRL, most people do not hang out with those not of their tribe, so they exist in an echo chamber. Since they exist in an echo chamber, they just cannot believe that anybody else might disagree with them.

Or, IRL, 90% of people don't really care about this stuff if an election isn't coming up next week. I would say that in my circle of acquaintances, about half are conservative leaning. But they don't spend a lot of time worrying about this other than even they admit in private that they know Trump is a buffoon.

One time, at a previous job, I decided I would poll my co-workers to name IL's two senators at that time. Guess what. Not a one of them could name both. Most of them couldn't name one. A lot of them can't name their congressman.

The real problem isn't that the "Fringe" is the problem, it's that we don't really collectively pay that much attention to what they are doing.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

As we know, an internet message board provides both anonymity and, as a result, an opportunity to be more aggressive and anti-social for those who are not like that in "real life".

What percentage of people here, in your opinion, act like this in real life?

Given the general decay in public behaviors over the last several years, I suspect that the percentage has increased. I'd say that around 30% to 40% of the behaviors we see here by our more aggressive posters are also seen in real life.

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

Your estimate, hopefully without insults, deflection or name-calling - as comically ironic as that would be?
.

What you get from me on here is how I am in real life...

Why fake it on here?

 

[Mac1958]

What you get from me on here is how I am in real life... Why fake it on here?

Well, there are clearly people who have a need for more than that.

Have you been in a "conversation" here in which the other person announces "I win", or "I beat you", or "I kicked your ass"? You see that all the time here. Obviously feeling as if they "won" something, as if there's some kind of scoreboard somewhere, is important to them.
.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

What you get from me on here is how I am in real life... Why fake it on here?

Well, there are clearly people who have a need for more than that.

Have you been in a "conversation" here in which the other person announces "I win", or "I beat you", or "I kicked your ass"? You see that all the time here. Obviously feeling as if they "won" something, as if there's some kind of scoreboard somewhere, is important to them.
.

The younger Generation I see it more. It remind me of MadTV and less like what the World should be like.

 

[Circe]

[
Yes, my interest here is in behaviors and motivations, and not in the silly, individual, day-to-day, farcical "news bombshells" that seem so important to people here, so that they can leverage them into some weird, perceived temporary political advantage via shallow online slap fights. A vast majority of my posts reflect that interest, so it should be pretty obvious by now.

Me, too. I used to be a news junkie, but migod, as you say, just empty but loud bombshells now. I am also fascinated with how society has changed as the disruptive Internet changes us all. How news has changed to the point of unrecognizability. And I like generating theories about what the hey is going ON --- like the one about the more people are losing, the angrier they get. That's an old one, but it sure predicts. Used to be the right that was angry: who would have thought that a sudden, massive loss would turn the Left so...…….ferocious?

 

[Circe]

I don't think that. What I think is that it's a simple case of who is losing. The more people are losing, the angrier they are: a life rule. The more openly aggressive they become.

Do you think this particular reaction to loss has become more prevalent?

We're not REQUIRED to get angry and attack. This is a CHOICE we make.
.

Sure, much more prevalent since the 2016 election. It's not been this bad since about 1858, not even in the 1930s or during the Vietnam War, and those were very iffy times when the country might have split up again, but didn't.

I'm not sure at all about your second point, that we could maybe choose not to get angry and attack.

Being defenseless or letting people preach at us, is for me a bad, bad idea, and I'm not going to let it happen. I'm a veteran of people finding out who I supported and then shrieking at me --- and that comes to a halt, right now. I don't mean here: I can and do ignore the obscenity insults or put frequent offenders on ignore. I have learned that engaging that kind of person is a bad idea, because they were all raised by wolves and are hopeless.

In person with acquaintances who might support the "wrong" sides, I simply never talk about anything interesting at all: no controversial social issues or politics. As the British used to say, conversation should be strictly about the weather and the state of the roads. If someone insists on talking about controversy, and these are almost always on the left, I'll leave them or insist they stop. I'm just not having any more of this carry-on. Abandonment of bad people is my go-to, but I will and do fight if I have to because I don't think it's wise to let people propagandize and preach furiously at me and against me. Avoid enemies if I can, fight if I must.