Mormon Church finally admits Joseph Smith had 40 wives

[G.T.]

You're sounding thoroughly brainwashed right now, dude.

The guy was an obvious creep. Let's look at the record, and not the rose colored painting the church made of it.

 

[paperview]

What was even worse, was the horny Joseph Smith would tell these women and young girls (there was more than one pubescent girl) - God tells me you must marry me, you have 24 hours to comply, if you decline, "the gates will be closed forever against you."


Under the Banner of Heaven A Story of Violent Faith - Jon Krakauer - Google Books

Isn't that special?

It seems to me that you aren't really accurately quoting what someone is saying when only part of the supposed quote is in the quotation marks

My question is why the creative game with quotation marks if he was telling the truth? Why not just quote the entire quote in context?.

"

You're using semantics to defend the founder of your "church". That tells me you have no real defense against the charges of child molesting and sexual harassment. Actually "sexual harassment" really is too mild a term for a man who uses the authoritarian power of church leadership to coerce women and girls into a sexual relationship. Catholic priests and Pastors of other denominations who do the same thing are not accorded such mild terms of condemnation. So will you step forward and acknowledge this evil side of Joseph Smith or defend it by some twisted bit of apologia?

it's amazing that you seem to think pointing out deliberate misquotes as semantics.

especially since there is no evidence of sexual relations. Especially since most of the dealings were for eternity and not during this life.

find a woman or child that claims molestation. You won't because there isn't one in fact the evidence of any sexual relations is so sparce its virtually non existant. The only person we know he had relations with was Emma. And that's because they had children together.

dont you think it's odd that a man who was supposedly given into wild sexual immorality only had children with one of his wives before there way any birth control?

did you even realize that a number of his wives weren't married to him until after he died?

you want to try to simplify a complex issue and use it as a reason to ignore the work he did, you are free to do that. But when you stand before God and He asks you why you didn't read the Book of Mormon for yourself when you could have, I don't think "I believed horrible things about Joseph Smith without ever actually looking into his life" is going to be a good excuse..

oh and I've spent years as a criminal defense attorney. I've represented people far worse than Joseph smith. And few as good as him.

".... in fact the evidence of any sexual relations is so sparce its virtually non existant. The only person we know he had relations with was Emma. And that's because they had children together."

Geeze, talk about denial.


Hey Avi, give it up -- the Official LDS Church has admitted Smith had sexual relations with multiple, multiple women.

This may time some time for you to work through, but it's a fact, jack.

Face reality.

 

[paperview]

A man with a highly libidinous appetite who is sleeping with other men's wives, (breaking a commandment left and right), and who tells young women they are commanded by God to be his wife - and must decide within 24 hours, or be damned - "the gate is closed" -- is doing something you'd find repugnant, if it were not your "prophet" you think so pure.

David Koresh convinced young girls to have sex with him also on command of God. Megalomaniacs and powerful men learned long ago religion can be used to gain much earthly treasure.

 

[G.T.]

A man with a highly libidinous appetite who is sleeping with other men's wives, (breaking a commandment left and right), and who tells young women they are commanded by God to be his wife - and must decide within 24 hours, or be damned - "the gate is closed" -- is doing something you'd find repugnant, if it were not your "prophet" you think so pure.

David Koresh convinced young girls to have sex with him also on command of God. Megalomaniacs and powerful men learned long ago religion can be used to gain much earthly treasure.

and whether or not the mormons like it, the two (koresh and smith) are very comparable.

 

[paperview]

Of course he consummated the marriage to the 14 year old. That's why he "married" her.

And then he kept her away from the weekly parties he was having at the mansion -- but her young friends could go and dance up a storm...

The Wives of Joseph Smith - Helen Mar Kimball

From the words of Helen herself: <snipped> (explaining how her father and Joseph conspired to get her to marry at 14)
(it should also be noted Helen's father went on to to be a Polygamist as well...(of course!

The next morning Joseph visited the Kimball home. "[He explained] the principle of Celestial marriage...After which he said to me,

‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.[‘] This promise was so great that I willingly gave myself to purchase so glorious a reward. None but God & his angels could see my mother’s bleeding heart-when Joseph asked her if she was willing...She had witnessed the sufferings of others, who were older & who better understood the step they were taking, & to see her child, who had scarcely seen her fifteenth summer, following in the same thorny path, in her mind she saw the misery which was as sure to come...; but it was all hidden from me.”

Helen’s mother reluctantly agreed and in May of 1843, Helen married Joseph Smith.

During the winter of 1843-44, there were weekly parties at Joseph Smith’s Mansion House. Many of Helen’s friends attended, as well as her sixteen-year-old brother William. Disappointed, Helen wrote,

“my father had been warned by the Prophet to keep his daughter away...I felt quite sore over it, and thought it a very unkind act in father to allow [William] to go and enjoy the dance unrestrained with others of my companions, and fettered me down, for no girl loved dancing better than I did...and like a wild bird I longed for the freedom that was denied me; and thought myself an abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did murmur.”

She thought herself an "an abused child" and also supposedly stating that she said never would have been married to Smith if she'd known it was nothing more than a ceremony - saying also "I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it."

 

[Avatar4321]

The Book of Mormon contradicts Itself and other inspired Mormon writings!

One God	Plural Gods
Book of Mormon: Alma 11:27-39, 44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27 Testimony of the three witnesses	Doctrine and Covenants: Section 121:32; 132:18-20, 37
God is a Spirit	God Has a Body
B. of M. - Alma 18:26-28; 22:8-11	D. & C. - Section 130:22
God Dwells in Heart	God Does Not Dwell in Heart
B. of M. - Alma 34:36	D. & C. - Section 130:3
Creation - One God	Creation - Plural Gods
B. of M. - 2 Nephi 2:14; Jacob 4:9 Pearl of Great Price - Moses, Chapter 2	Book of Abraham - Chapters 4 and 5
God Cannot Lie	God Commands Lying
B. of M. - Ether 3:12; 2 Nephi 9:34	P.G.P. - Book of Abraham 2:22-25
God's Word Unchangeable	God's Word Can Change
B. of M. - Alma 41:8	D. & C. - Section 56:4-5
No Pre-Existence of Man	Man Pre-Existed
B. of M. - Jacob 4:9; Alma 18:28, 34-36	D. & C. - Section 93:23, 29-33 P.G.P. - Bk of Abraham 3:18, 21-23
Death Seals Man's Fate	Chance After Death
B. of M. - Mosiah 2:36-39; Alma 34:32-35	D. & C. - Section 76:106-112; 88:99
Heathen Saved Without Baptism	Baptism for Dead
B. of M. - Moroni 8:22-23 2 Nephi 9:25-26; Mosiah 15:24-27	D. & C. - Section 128:5, 17-18
Heaven or Hell	Three Kingdoms in Heaven - Most Saved
B. of M. - 2 Nephi 28:22; 1 Nephi 15:35; Most SavedMosiah 16:11, 27:31; Alma 41:4-8, 42:16	D. & C. - Section 76:43, 70-112
Murder Can Be Forgiven	No Forgiveness For Murder
B. of M.- 3 Nephi 30:2	D. & C. - Section 42:18
Polygamy Condemned	Polygamy Commanded
B. of M. - Jacob 1:15, 2:24, 3:5; Mosiah 11:2	D. & C. - Section 132:1, 37-39, 61
2 Nephi 26:31; Mosiah 27:5	D. & C. - Section 42:71-73; 43:12-13; 51:13-14
B. of M. - Mormon 8:32	D. & C. - Section 64:23
Adam in America	Adam in Old World
D. & C. - Section 107:53; 116; 117:8	P.G.P. - Book of Moses 3:8, 10-15

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible!

Bible	Book of Mormon
Church began in 33 AD Mt 16:18 Acts 2	church began in 147BC, Mosiah 18:17
"disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" 40AD, Acts 11:26	Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.
Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18	Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6
"Jesus was born in Bethlehem" Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17	"He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem" Alma 7:10
3 hours of darkness at crucifixion Lk 23:44	3 Days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27
God is spirit without flesh &bones Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39	God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You are really good at cutting and pasting.

You might want to browse the internet a bit more though. People have answered the alleged problems more than 15 years ago.

Why don't you read the Book of Mormon for yourself instead of relying on what others say about it?

answer it for me please.

you cut and paste a number of claims using the shot gun approach and expect me yo spend the time answering what was answer decades ago? That doesn't seem quite right.

do you want to talk about any one specifically?

how about the last one? God has a body of flesh and bones. It quotes Luke 24:39 to prove God doesn't.

except it's a verse where Jesus christ is saying "look at me. I have a body of flesh and bones." So how does God telling the twelve he has a body of flesh and bones prove that he doesn't?

heck the whole new testament is centered around the belief that God became flesh and atoned for our sins.

and look at the John 4:24 verse. God is spirit. God is also truth, love, and light. That doesn't describe His form.
look at the verses around it. Christ says we are to worship Him in spirit. Does that mean we need to leave our bodies before we can worship Him? Or that we don't have bodies if we worship Him in spirit?

do you really think an out of context verse and God saying I'm flesh and bones proves that He isn't?

and that's just the sloppy work in one of the comparisons. You really think when you get to the other side of the veil and meet the Lord you are going to be justified saying "I didn't study the Book of Mormon because I found some sloppy scholarship on the internet and didn't bother checking to see if they were accurate."

it was precisely those poor arguments on the internet that made me believe. It seemed me that if they were telling the truth they wouldn't have to make things up, or misquote scriptures or people. Or misrepresent doctrine. When it was obvious that is what a majority of the arguments were, it seemed only prudent to investigate further and experiment on the Word.

I have read the Bible and Book of Mormon. I've compared them myself. I've tasted of the fruit and I know they are good. They teach the doctrine of Christ. And by the power of the Holy Ghost I know that they are true.

read the book of Mormon for yourself. Have the faith in Christ to put in the effort. Dont just rely on what others say. Not even me. Find out for yourself. Ask the Lord in the name of Christ and He will show you with power that the Book of Mormon is true.

 

[Avatar4321]

You're sounding thoroughly brainwashed right now, dude.

The guy was an obvious creep. Let's look at the record, and not the rose colored painting the church made of it.

I have looked at the record. The fact that you won't saying "it's obvious" is not an argument. It's a cop out to justify not doing a thing. If it's so obvious what is the harm of looking over the evidence? Why not read the Book of Mormon and test the fruits of the doctrine?

you care enough about the subject to post here. Why not fully educate yourself on the matter?

 

[G.T.]

You're sounding thoroughly brainwashed right now, dude.

The guy was an obvious creep. Let's look at the record, and not the rose colored painting the church made of it.

I have looked at the record. The fact that you won't saying "it's obvious" is not an argument. It's a cop out to justify not doing a thing. If it's so obvious what is the harm of looking over the evidence? Why not read the Book of Mormon and test the fruits of the doctrine?

you care enough about the subject to post here. Why not fully educate yourself on the matter?

i have to finish more important books first, like dr. suess for some parental bedtime reading and such


joseph smith's history is documented.

his actual bible is going to make every stab at making him look great.

yea? no shit.

look at independent sources, silly. he's a charlatan.

 

[Avatar4321]

A man with a highly libidinous appetite who is sleeping with other men's wives, (breaking a commandment left and right), and who tells young women they are commanded by God to be his wife - and must decide within 24 hours, or be damned - "the gate is closed" -- is doing something you'd find repugnant, if it were not your "prophet" you think so pure.

David Koresh convinced young girls to have sex with him also on command of God. Megalomaniacs and powerful men learned long ago religion can be used to gain much earthly treasure.

the fact that you want to continue citing a quote that you are clearly misrepresenting tells me alot.

you can libel people all you want. It doesn't prove anything about them.

the fact is you are attacking Joseph because there is nothing in the doctrine you can fault.

 

[G.T.]

Mormon church admits founder Joseph Smith had about 40 wives - Yahoo News

"The church has been widely criticized for its treatment of women, black people, who it barred from the higher priesthood until 1978, and gays, who were banned from its temples if they were sexually active."

in 1978 god finally told them in their hearts what was right? or did it take public scrutiny, we report you decide. duhh.

"The church, founded in 1830, banned polygamy in 1890 when the U.S. government threatened to deny Utah statehood."

So polygamy ok for joey smith. Not ok once the threat of removal of power was on the table. Sudden change of heart? Laugh-worthy, actually despicable.



Also, why did the church portray him as being committed to just one woman?

Why marry a 14 year old, AT ALL? Fucking GROSS.

a GROWN ASSED COWARD forces marriage on a non-adult, not mature fucking 14 YEAR OLD? That's sick.

 

[G.T.]

"who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers. However, within four years he was back in the local newspapers (all of which one may still read) as the discoverer of the "Book of Mormon." He had two huge local advantages which most mountebanks and charlatans do not possess. First, he was operating in the same hectically pious district that gave us the Shakers and several other self-proclaimed American prophets. So notorious did this local tendency become that the region became known as the "Burned-Over District," in honor of the way in which it had surrendered to one religious craze after another. "


A little emphasis on the points which should have a Mormon slapping his head in self disgust. Stand for nothing, fall for everything is the Mormon motto.

Are non polygamist mormons hypocrites, or did god come and "update" the religion from the joseph smith debauchery?
How about marriages to 14yr olds? Is that ok? Or is joseph smith a pervert post hoc?

 

[G.T.]

One thing Religions reaffirm for me every day, and why my business acumen is legendary.

People believe ANYthing in large groups so long as you simply say it with confidence. For this human phenomena of being so damned gullible, they accept your confidence as "must be something to it!"

 

[paperview]

Why marry a 14 year old, AT ALL? Fucking GROSS.

a GROWN ASSED COWARD forces marriage on a non-adult, not mature fucking 14 YEAR OLD? That's sick.

^ That right there. ^ To spiritually bond them? Too fucking weird. And it had to be decided in 24 hours??

Anyone else, creepville.


Joesph Smith? He gets a pass and is elevated to sainthood.

 

[G.T.]

Why marry a 14 year old, AT ALL? Fucking GROSS.

a GROWN ASSED COWARD forces marriage on a non-adult, not mature fucking 14 YEAR OLD? That's sick.

^ That right there. ^ To spiritually bond them? Too fucking weird. And it had to be decided in 24 hours??

Anyone else, creepville.


Joesph Smith? He gets a pass and is elevated to sainthood.

You see, with certain Gods, some things are "ok" in certain times in history but not "ok" in others - magically aligning with the current social norms here on earth.

For instance, lets see the church consistent and bless 14yr olds marrying today. Where is that at? How about old Mitt Romney marrying one of the olsen twins back in the early 90's? Is that "ok" or did the church change its mind?

Weird, huh?

No, its actually tell tale signs that they've been duped is what it is.

 

[G.T.]

The founder of Mormonism is the type of man you keep away from your beautiful children, like my angel honoring Derek Jeter over a nice treat. Far, far away. If I caught him at a park when she becomes 14 anywhere near her, I'd probably have to elbow drop him from the top rope like Jimmy "super fly" Snuka. Or maybe I'd call up Jake "the snake" Roberts and see how Joey likes Damian draped over his perverted flesh after a nice sleeper hold.

 

[Taz]

Joseph Smith is a documented con man and pedophile. The Jim Jones of his era.

 

[G.T.]

If Joey was around today, where could we expect to look him up?

National Sex Offender Registry - Family Watchdog Yes, the national sex offenders registry. But in their defense, the church smartly backed away from the creepy norms of perversion.

 

[Avatar4321]

A man with a highly libidinous appetite who is sleeping with other men's wives, (breaking a commandment left and right), and who tells young women they are commanded by God to be his wife - and must decide within 24 hours, or be damned - "the gate is closed" -- is doing something you'd find repugnant, if it were not your "prophet" you think so pure.

David Koresh convinced young girls to have sex with him also on command of God. Megalomaniacs and powerful men learned long ago religion can be used to gain much earthly treasure.

and whether or not the mormons like it, the two (koresh and smith) are very comparable.

one said he was Christ. The other a servant of Christ.

one collected weapons to fight the government, the other taught against coercion in favor of persuasion.

one hunkered down in a compound to avoid being arrested. The other submitted to trumped up charges.

one kept his community isolated, the other sent them into the world to preach.

I know you think all religions are the same, but come on.

 

[G.T.]

A man with a highly libidinous appetite who is sleeping with other men's wives, (breaking a commandment left and right), and who tells young women they are commanded by God to be his wife - and must decide within 24 hours, or be damned - "the gate is closed" -- is doing something you'd find repugnant, if it were not your "prophet" you think so pure.

David Koresh convinced young girls to have sex with him also on command of God. Megalomaniacs and powerful men learned long ago religion can be used to gain much earthly treasure.

and whether or not the mormons like it, the two (koresh and smith) are very comparable.

one said he was Christ. The other a servant of Christ.

one collected weapons to fight the government, the other taught against coercion in favor of persuasion.

one hunkered down in a compound to avoid being arrested. The other submitted to trumped up charges.

one kept his community isolated, the other sent them into the world to preach.

I know you think all religions are the same, but come on.

Both were snake oil salesmen, delusional/schitzophrenic, or both.
Both were horny perverts.
Both posessed the ability to brainwash gullible masses.
Both ignored the fact that children aren't old enough to decide on things of an adult nature, and perverted the childhoods of said children.

 

[Avatar4321]

Joseph Smith is a documented con man and pedophile. The Jim Jones of his era.

Jones was a communist. Do you even know what a pedophile is?