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I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.Mueller didn't decide, so AG Barr did. And he decided there was not sufficient evidence to charge the President with obstruction of justice.No he said he didn't decide one way or another if he did or not.
Here are the excerpts from his summary, and a link to the whole thing.
After making a "thorough factual investigation" into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion -- one way or the other – as to whether the examined conducted constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated , the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as "difficult issues" of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
The AG goes on to explain that since Mueller did not come to any legal conclusions on this, it is up to Barr himself to determine whether there was a crime. He determined there was not.
AG Barr quotes Mueller as saying "the evidence does not establish that the President wa involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."
Read: Justice Department summary of Mueller report - CNNPolitics
But just like I said, it is quite odd that Barr could make this decision in JUST 48 hours, after a 2 year long investigation and all the evidence. The man who wrote the rules for a special counsel is now on tv saying the exact same thing as I have. Barr rushed his decision, and wonders if he was doing something wrong.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.Mueller didn't decide, so AG Barr did. And he decided there was not sufficient evidence to charge the President with obstruction of justice.
Here are the excerpts from his summary, and a link to the whole thing.
After making a "thorough factual investigation" into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion -- one way or the other – as to whether the examined conducted constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated , the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as "difficult issues" of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
The AG goes on to explain that since Mueller did not come to any legal conclusions on this, it is up to Barr himself to determine whether there was a crime. He determined there was not.
AG Barr quotes Mueller as saying "the evidence does not establish that the President wa involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."
Read: Justice Department summary of Mueller report - CNNPolitics
But just like I said, it is quite odd that Barr could make this decision in JUST 48 hours, after a 2 year long investigation and all the evidence. The man who wrote the rules for a special counsel is now on tv saying the exact same thing as I have. Barr rushed his decision, and wonders if he was doing something wrong.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
Sad retread? Not long ago a judge turned down Trump's request to get rid of the emoluments case. NEVER in the U.S. has a President EVER been tried for violating the emoluments clause. NEVER before Trump.
So Mueller made no decision on obstruction, but suddenly Barr is making the decision there is no obstruction. How odd.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.But just like I said, it is quite odd that Barr could make this decision in JUST 48 hours, after a 2 year long investigation and all the evidence. The man who wrote the rules for a special counsel is now on tv saying the exact same thing as I have. Barr rushed his decision, and wonders if he was doing something wrong.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
Sad retread? Not long ago a judge turned down Trump's request to get rid of the emoluments case. NEVER in the U.S. has a President EVER been tried for violating the emoluments clause. NEVER before Trump.
And never before Trump has the outgoing President led an effort to overturn the election of his successor.
Mueller didn’t say Trump ate pancakes for lunch either. *gasp*Mueller said his investigation was not obstructed. There is no evidence of any obstruction which means he is exonerated.
He did not say that. He said he couldn't decide either way and Trump was not exonerated from it. There is no mincing words, he flat out, clearly, said it.
It’s not his job to “exonerate” anyone from crimes, it’s his job to find evidence of crimes. He has none.
Whine about it all you want. There is zero evidence of “obstruction”.
You need evidence to charge someone with a crime. There will be no charges based on this report.
Do you know what exonerate means? If there were ZERO evidence of obstruction of justice Mueller would have said so.
Mueller should be able to tell us if his own investigation was obstructed or not. Try to think about it.
If his investigation was not obstructed, then why wouldn't he have said, "Trump and his staff did not obstruct."
It's not difficult. Not sure why this is so difficult for many of you to understand.
I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
Sad retread? Not long ago a judge turned down Trump's request to get rid of the emoluments case. NEVER in the U.S. has a President EVER been tried for violating the emoluments clause. NEVER before Trump.
And never before Trump has the outgoing President led an effort to overturn the election of his successor.
I've never used the "funny" rep on a post to show just how ridiculous it is. Congrats on being the first.
So Mueller made no decision on obstruction, but suddenly Barr is making the decision there is no obstruction. How odd.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
It is a witch hunt and Mueller should be charged with obstruction. He was told to find any evidence of crime he could, yet only conservatives have been charged. Funny you don't seem to notice that.So Mueller made no decision on obstruction, but suddenly Barr is making the decision there is no obstruction. How odd.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Oh no sweetheart. That is not what you cried about for OVER TWO YEARS. What you and your ilk cried about for OVER TWO YEARS was COLLUSION. We all know the Ruskies will interfere with our elections any chance they get--mostly with Hillary's help if she can.
Don't try to do clean up on aisle 11 now. We can look your crap up, you know.
What I cried about? We discussed what was going on over the investigation. Most of us said we trusted whatever Mueller decided.
On the other hand... Trump supporters on this forum yelled for 2 years it was a witch hunt and that Mueller was a biased crook. Suddenly today they trust Mueller's final results.![]()
So Mueller made no decision on obstruction, but suddenly Barr is making the decision there is no obstruction. How odd.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
That is because it never happened.I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.But just like I said, it is quite odd that Barr could make this decision in JUST 48 hours, after a 2 year long investigation and all the evidence. The man who wrote the rules for a special counsel is now on tv saying the exact same thing as I have. Barr rushed his decision, and wonders if he was doing something wrong.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
Sad retread? Not long ago a judge turned down Trump's request to get rid of the emoluments case. NEVER in the U.S. has a President EVER been tried for violating the emoluments clause. NEVER before Trump.
And never before Trump has the outgoing President led an effort to overturn the election of his successor.
So Mueller made no decision on obstruction, but suddenly Barr is making the decision there is no obstruction. How odd.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
He can't clear a negative, he cannot know anything about anything that isn't found in fact.
Someone could accuse Trump of being a secret agent for the Swedish Home Guard. Can he exonerate him of this or prove he isn't?
All he can do is say "yes, here is the proof he is" Otherwise, he just has to say, "I cannot prove or exonerate him". He COULD be working for the Swedish Home Guard. Would anyone risk their life that he isn't? Maybe someone will prove it, otherwise, you just say "no evidence".
That is because it never happened.I'm not stupid, Lewdog. I am aware of what could have happened here, with Trump so openly declaring that he wanted an AG "protecting" him. So he fired Sessions, hired Barr and who knows what discussions took place, what agreements were made. I know all that.
I hope that we will have the opportunity to read Mueller's points on this matter, pro and con, in detail. I predict that the Democrats will all decide that Trump was guilty and the Republicans will decide that Trump is innocent. It will accomplish nothing and get us no further. The Special Counsel did what he could. A decision has been lawfully made. I don't support another year and a half of this ripping and tearing.
We have more important things to do.
I never called you stupid, and in fact my post pretty much agrees with you. Trump's next biggest hurdle to overcome is the emoluments cases where it seems he and his family have complete several quid pro quo deals.
What a sad retread. What's next? The LOGAN ACT?
*snicker*
Sad retread? Not long ago a judge turned down Trump's request to get rid of the emoluments case. NEVER in the U.S. has a President EVER been tried for violating the emoluments clause. NEVER before Trump.
And never before Trump has the outgoing President led an effort to overturn the election of his successor.
Investigators do not “exonerate”, they search for evidence of crimes.
He found zero evidence for collusion, period.
You lost. Have fun spinning it otherwise.
This is down right dense. Mueller's investigation had the ability to go in front of a grand jury and get indictments. Mueller clearly stated his results do not exonerate Trump when it comes to obstruction of justice. It's clear as day.
Mueller said his investigation was not obstructed. There is no evidence of any obstruction which means he is exonerated.
He did not say that. He said he couldn't decide either way and Trump was not exonerated from it. There is no mincing words, he flat out, clearly, said it.
It’s not his job to “exonerate” anyone from crimes, it’s his job to find evidence of crimes. He has none.
Whine about it all you want. There is zero evidence of “obstruction”.
You need evidence to charge someone with a crime. There will be no charges based on this report.
Do you know what exonerate means? If there were ZERO evidence of obstruction of justice Mueller would have said so.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.
Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.
So it took two years to collect investigative results regarding obstruction.
It took ten minutes for the team to review them.
Done and done. Have a hankie.
He read the report liar.Tough day??
Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.
He read the report liar.Nope. Trump doesn't have much longer to serve as President. Regardless of Mueller's findings, we learned quite clearly that Russians have interfered with our election process, and now we can work on ways to prevent that in the future. That is the most important outcome from this.
Mueller didn't say whether Trump obstructed Justice and the AG suddenly decided in two days that Trump didn't obstruct justice. That is quite odd. You are talking about a quite serious issue, and he didn't take very long to finish things. Mueller himself said that his findings did not exonerate Trump.
Damn but you people are stupid. He doesn't have to be exonerated. We have presumption of innocence in this country, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, innocence is sustained. No exoneration is necessary.
The key point is that after two years, that if Mueller can not say Trump DID NOT obstruct justice, then there is an issue.
There is no issue. The AG has made the decision based upon the evidence presented. Whine as you will, there will be no further action in the matter.
He made the decision in 2 days going over TWO years of investigation results. That's an absolutely ridiculous situation. There is no way in hell he read all the evidence in just two days in order to make an educated decision.