Muslims are not staying silent in the wake of the Paris attacks

[pwjohn]

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Bullshit.
It has no religious function. It's an act of social order and social class.

And what is creating social order and social class???

You think religion is something out there floating on the air, dont touch anything?

Well, this might be the case in a secular western country, even tho it would still have something from the religion, but eminently not in an islamist country where religion dictates anything and everything, including social order, class and justice.

You know what, you're pretty much right where arab muslim states are concerned. Over here, the church has many avenues to exert their influence, and even direct control over the local yocals..And numbers have everything to do with the level of that control and influence on the locals. If a particular church in your town has substantially more members than any other church, they are in the best position to influence events at the local level. Some do, some don't.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, if you go kill people and you're a Muslim but you don't shout "Allah is Great" then it's okay, but if you shout "Allah is Great" then it's bad?

When a Muslim kills his wife or daughter and does not shout "Allahu Akbar" he is just participating in their national sport of "honor" killing and nobody will call him a radical Islamist terrorist. Mainly because the unfortunate victim is one of his own.

And it is NOT OK, at least not in a world inhabited by humans. But it is quite OK in hell holes like Pakistan and Somalia, just to mention a couple of examples.

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Hohohoho, Turkey and honor killings ....

Where to start....


But before, this is classic:

"Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?"
Well, most of the backward countries ARE in fact happen to be MUSLIMS. In fact, the only non-backward countries muslims are living in happen to be christian countries

Thats why when people are talking about muslims, highly likely they are talking about backwards countries muslims are living in.

And yes, honor killing is a problem in Turkey as well. And they are trying to look into their religion to find out the problem, but again the same thing happens, they are labeled as islamaphobic! These are muslims, trying to do some self-criticism and they face the same arguments as an athesit would

And you know why?

Because they can! Islamists can label anyone "islamaphobic", and they can get away with anything their retarded world view has been causing on this world. Unbelievable....

Most backwards countries are Muslim huh?

GDP per capita.

In last place according to the IMF is Burundi, then the Central Africa Republic, then Malawi, then Gambia, then Madagascar, then Niger, then Liberia, then DRC, then Guinea, then Togo, then Guinea-Bissau, the North Korea, then Afghanistan, then Uganda, then Mozambique, then Eritrea, then Burkina Faso.

Burundi = 90% Christian
CAR = 80% Christian
Malawi = 68% Christian
Gambia = 90% Muslim
Madagascar = 52% Indigenous religion, 41% Christian
Niger = 99% Muslim
Liberia = 85% Christian
DRC = 69% Christian.

I could go on. The reality is the countries at the bottom of the pile are a mix of Christian and Muslim. What unites ALL of these countries here is that they're in Africa. Parts of Africa are Muslim, parts are Christian, doesn't seem to change their problems very much.

The DRC is a VERY fucked up country. Doesn't get in the news much because it doesn't have oil. Diamonds and other metals are coming out regardless of the war. No, I said it wrong, they're coming out because of the war, they use these resources to buy weapons and the US is perfectly happy to allow this to continue. So it NEVER gets in the news.

So, in fact, MOST fucked up countries are not actually Muslim, they're actually Christian. But the religion is neither here nor there.

Fine, there are honor killings in Turkey. But a look at the map and you see it's geographical.

Honor killings spread from Turkey-Egypt in the west, over to Bangladesh in the east.

Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. China is the 8th largest Muslim country in the world. Many places in Africa are Muslim and yet there are no honor killings.

Uganda is Christian.

Honor killings are bad, they're barbaric, and yet it's based on geography and not religion.

India has honor killings. The state which is notorious is Haryana, 87% are Hindus. It's not about Islam.

Many people who commit honor killings are Muslim, but it's not because they're Muslim.

Most honor killings aren't to do with religion, they're to do with married, family honor and all that crap.

Hahahahahaha, looking at GDP to find out how backwards a country is....., well, stupid.

The most backwards country, let alone this planet, in this galaxy is Saudi Arabia, and yet, they are in the G20. Take a wild guess, why...

Backwardness in not in your wallet, it is in your head.

Backwards means reverse progress, meaning a detrimental progress in a society. All the countries you have named in your post are no backwards, they are just poor. They didnt have a chance to progress, because of their economic and environmental conditions.

On the other hand, most muslim countries are not poor, but contrary, have all the disposable income to make progress, somewhat reliable institutions that can support a healthy governmental system, some even had nationalism process happened to them, but yet, they just backtrack.

Take Turkey for example. Modern Republic of Turkey was setup in 1923, it was a secular country. And look at it now, the president openly can target the sect of the opposition leader. This is the definition of "backwards". reverse progressing from a nationalistic society, into a religious sectarian society. Couldn't been a better example to backwardness.......


Honor killings, UN report says they are most seen in muslim countries, but somehow concludes it has "nothing" to do with religion This is like sayin "junk food makes you fat but it has nothing to do with the sugar they put in it".

Of course it is the religion. You dont see it in most asian muslim countries, because they did not take islam with its face value, they have adapted it. The more you go outside from the center, the less effective islam will be. What did you expect?

You have the western countries in your map. But take a WILD guess, who are those people committing honor killings in those western countries? Just take a WILD guess...

Why no honor killings in China? HELLO, China is communist, you heard about that? Communism is a secular regime.

India, seriously... Take a very WILD guess again, what parts of India honor killings are the most? Let it be a WILD one?????
It is the north, Punjab, the Pakistani border, where the muslim population is the most. Indian women are much better off than the Pakistani women, ask any Pakistani...

Anyways, your map shows a very simple fact, muslim countries somehow are the center of this evil. And believe me, muslims are not stupid, they can see this too. Take Turkey as an example, when muslims in Turkey trying to make this point, you know what the islamists do, they do the exact same thing you are doing right now, they open up this map, show how US and England have honor killings too.

Really, the way liberals on this forum approaching to islam, trying to defend it against a very concrete criticism, is NOT helping muslims at all. They are in a spiral, they need to get out of it, and get out of it ASAP.

If you want to do something good for them, just tell the truth, to their face......

Looking at the GDP is stupid huh? Why's that? You didn't give me a list of countries that are backwards. So I went and chose quite a formidable way of looking at it.

So you say Saudi Arabia is the most backwards country. How have you reached that definition?

Why is Saudi Arabia more backwards than North Korea? A country which has a maniac leader and its people are kept totally under the thumb.
Is it more backwards than Madagascar? Than Bhutan? Than Burundi?

Do you know anything about these countries?

Oh, so, it means reverse. So, in the past 20 years how much has Saudi Arabia gone in reverse? I can find quite a few countries, like Burundi, Kenya, etc which have gone backwards in the last few years. Perhaps even the US has gone backwards in the last few years.

Honor killings are mostly in Muslim countries. This is where you have to look and understand areas and countries. Do you understand why Islam is in these countries and also why Honor killings are in these countries?

Why are there honor killings in India, in majority Hindu states in India, but not in African countries like Mali, Algeria etc?

DO you understand? Or is it just too convenient for you to paint a picture without bothering to understand what it is you're talking about?

You say "Of course it's religion", in which case it won't be too difficult to actually prove it, will it?

You've just stated that Punjab has the worst case of honor killings. Really?

Punjab is low (comparatively) on crimes against women. There maybe be lots of reasons for this.

India court seeks 'honour killing' response - BBC News

"Taking note of the rise in "honour crimes", the Supreme Court demanded responses from the the federal government and state governments of Punjab, Haryana, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Himachal Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh."

Religion Data - Population of Hindu / Muslim / Sikh / Christian - Census 2011 India


Punjab = 58% Sikh, 38% Hindu, 1.93% Muslims
It is Sikh majority according to the Indian Census of 2011. So much for your claim that because it's close to Pakistan it's Muslim.

Haryana = Hindu Majority. Hindu 87%, Muslim 7%.
Bihar = Hindu Majority. Hindu 82%, Muslim 16%
Uttar Pradesh = Hindu Majority. Hindu 79%, Muslim 19%
Rajasthan = Hindu Majority. Hindu 88%, Muslim 9%
Jharkhand = Hindu Majority. Hindu 67%, Muslim 14%
Himachal Pradesh = Hindu Majority. Hindu 95%, Muslim 2%
Madhya Pradesh= Hindu Majority. Hindu 90%, Muslim 6%

So, of the states with major honor killing problems, all but one of them is majority Hindu, the other being Sikh, and not Muslim as you claimed. Shows that you're not basing this on reality, but on what you want to believe. In fact the largest Muslim population of these is 19%. You think it's just the Muslims doing this? It isn't.


Yes, there is a problem with many Muslim countries. Why? Have you asked yourself why this happened? Have you looked into their history to see why this may be the case? I mean you can't even be fucking bothered to find out whether Punjab is Muslim or not. You look, see it's near Pakistan and put 2 and 2 together and make 22. Oh fucking great.

"Really, the way liberals on this forum approaching to islam, trying to defend it against a very concrete criticism, is NOT helping"

Concrete criticism huh? The only thing CONCRETE about it is that it might be that the brain has been replaced by concrete.

You've shown that you don't know what you're talking about. And yet you have the balls to say this is "concrete criticism". Bullshit is it. You're making it up as you go along.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Just in case anyone decided to claim (as has already happened) that Muslims are staying silent over the Paris attacks. They're not. Clearly. You're just not listening.

Paris attacks: Muslims around the world condemn Islamic State massacre

Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Indonesia, Qatar and Turkey have all condemned these attacks, as shown by this site.

"Not in my name" - Muslims speak out against Paris attacks conducted in the name of Islam

Loads of Muslims on Twitter denouncing the attacks.

Muslims strongly condemn Paris terror attacks

"Muslims worldwide on Saturday strongly condemned the terrorist attacks by the Islamic State that killed at least 127 people in Paris."

"Tariq Ramadan, a professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University in England and president of the European Muslim Network think tank said in a statement: “Absolute and immediate condemnation. They shouted, we are told, ‘Allahu akbar” (God [is] the greatest) to support and justify their inhuman actions."

Just because you're not listening, doesn't mean they aren't speaking.

Yeah ok, so what.

Arab Muslins need to do far more than that. Like rooting out the terrorists among them, before they attack. Figure out why so many of them are prone to perpetrating acts of terror. Once identified, eliminate any triggers that might lead some of the arab muslims among them to commit terrorist acts..

So, Muslims need to root out the terrorists among them. While the US has a WAR CRIMINAL in Bush and they've done fucking nothing to bring him to justice in international war criminal courts. In fact the US is so pussy they won't even sign up to such a thing. Give me a break. One thing for them, another for us, right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

VIDEO: Soccer fans chant 'Allahu Akbar' during Paris tribute

Again. Are you listening?

The claim here is that ALL MUSLIMS are bad.

So, some Muslims should Allah Akbar. Did ALL Muslims shout this? Did they?

 

[JimBowie1958]

The claim here is that ALL MUSLIMS are bad.

So, some Muslims should Allah Akbar. Did ALL Muslims shout this? Did they?

When Muslims do not inform on their terrorist brothers, they are bad. When the majority of Muslims want Sharia law imposed on the rest of us, they are bad. When Muslims fail to provide aid to the victims of their jihadis, they are bad.

Actions speak louder than words to the rest of us non-libtardians.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The claim here is that ALL MUSLIMS are bad.

So, some Muslims should Allah Akbar. Did ALL Muslims shout this? Did they?

When Muslims do not inform on their terrorist brothers, they are bad. When the majority of Muslims want Sharia law imposed on the rest of us, they are bad. When Muslims fail to provide aid to the victims of their jihadis, they are bad.

Actions speak louder than words to the rest of us non-libtardians.

Do all Muslims not inform on their "terrorist brothers"?
Do the majority of Muslims want Sharia law imposed on the rest of us?
Do all Muslims fail to provide aid for the victims of Jihadis?

 

[pwjohn]

Just in case anyone decided to claim (as has already happened) that Muslims are staying silent over the Paris attacks. They're not. Clearly. You're just not listening.

Paris attacks: Muslims around the world condemn Islamic State massacre

Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Indonesia, Qatar and Turkey have all condemned these attacks, as shown by this site.

"Not in my name" - Muslims speak out against Paris attacks conducted in the name of Islam

Loads of Muslims on Twitter denouncing the attacks.

Muslims strongly condemn Paris terror attacks

"Muslims worldwide on Saturday strongly condemned the terrorist attacks by the Islamic State that killed at least 127 people in Paris."

"Tariq Ramadan, a professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University in England and president of the European Muslim Network think tank said in a statement: “Absolute and immediate condemnation. They shouted, we are told, ‘Allahu akbar” (God [is] the greatest) to support and justify their inhuman actions."

Just because you're not listening, doesn't mean they aren't speaking.

Yeah ok, so what.

Arab Muslins need to do far more than that. Like rooting out the terrorists among them, before they attack. Figure out why so many of them are prone to perpetrating acts of terror. Once identified, eliminate any triggers that might lead some of the arab muslims among them to commit terrorist acts..

So, Muslims need to root out the terrorists among them. While the US has a WAR CRIMINAL in Bush and they've done fucking nothing to bring him to justice in international war criminal courts. In fact the US is so pussy they won't even sign up to such a thing. Give me a break. One thing for them, another for us, right?

Dude, that would be arab Muslims "over here" rooting out the terrorists among them before they attack. Get it. "Over here".

 

[Tilly]

In response to the title of the thread: I think one of the problems is that it 'appears' to have taken a while for muslims to 'realise' that the decent thing to do following the various and many massacres of innocent people conducted in the name of Islam (whether one accepts that claim to be accurate or not), would be to condemn these barbarous acts and the perps, and condemn them unequivocally and without qualification. If you listen carefully, often in the past anyway, these 'condemnations' really didn't seem to be condemnations at all, saturated as they were with 'buts' and 'howevers' and so on. Another problem is that a lot of people are aware of the practice of al taqiyya and kitman, so whilst it may be true that it's damned if they do, damned if they don't, it's not the fault of the sceptics that it is acceptable in Islam to lie to non Muslims to safeguard, promote and defend Islam and ones beliefs. The doubters can't take responsibility for that, and being aware of the practice makes one cautious. I don't see how that can be helped.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Do all Muslims not inform on their "terrorist brothers"?

Obviously not.

Do the majority of Muslims want Sharia law imposed on the rest of us?

Yes.

Do all Muslims fail to provide aid for the victims of Jihadis?

No,, they do not.

 

[EverCurious]

I think Japan would qualify as having honor killings, at least historically. I'm not sure about modern times, but we haven't been getting all the "real" news out of there until recently yea?

 

[dannyboys]

When a Muslim kills his wife or daughter and does not shout "Allahu Akbar" he is just participating in their national sport of "honor" killing and nobody will call him a radical Islamist terrorist. Mainly because the unfortunate victim is one of his own.

And it is NOT OK, at least not in a world inhabited by humans. But it is quite OK in hell holes like Pakistan and Somalia, just to mention a couple of examples.

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

Because 'honor killing' is always done in the name allah. Just as lying stealing and cheating is always done in the name of allah. Just as murdering the 'infidel' is always done in the name of allah.
BIG difference.
It's like saying car thefts happen everywhere BUT having a verse in the koran demanding of all 'true believers' that every blue BMW on the planet must be stolen.

 

[alpine]

When a Muslim kills his wife or daughter and does not shout "Allahu Akbar" he is just participating in their national sport of "honor" killing and nobody will call him a radical Islamist terrorist. Mainly because the unfortunate victim is one of his own.

And it is NOT OK, at least not in a world inhabited by humans. But it is quite OK in hell holes like Pakistan and Somalia, just to mention a couple of examples.

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Hohohoho, Turkey and honor killings ....

Where to start....


But before, this is classic:

"Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?"
Well, most of the backward countries ARE in fact happen to be MUSLIMS. In fact, the only non-backward countries muslims are living in happen to be christian countries

Thats why when people are talking about muslims, highly likely they are talking about backwards countries muslims are living in.

And yes, honor killing is a problem in Turkey as well. And they are trying to look into their religion to find out the problem, but again the same thing happens, they are labeled as islamaphobic! These are muslims, trying to do some self-criticism and they face the same arguments as an athesit would

And you know why?

Because they can! Islamists can label anyone "islamaphobic", and they can get away with anything their retarded world view has been causing on this world. Unbelievable....

Most backwards countries are Muslim huh?

GDP per capita.

In last place according to the IMF is Burundi, then the Central Africa Republic, then Malawi, then Gambia, then Madagascar, then Niger, then Liberia, then DRC, then Guinea, then Togo, then Guinea-Bissau, the North Korea, then Afghanistan, then Uganda, then Mozambique, then Eritrea, then Burkina Faso.

Burundi = 90% Christian
CAR = 80% Christian
Malawi = 68% Christian
Gambia = 90% Muslim
Madagascar = 52% Indigenous religion, 41% Christian
Niger = 99% Muslim
Liberia = 85% Christian
DRC = 69% Christian.

I could go on. The reality is the countries at the bottom of the pile are a mix of Christian and Muslim. What unites ALL of these countries here is that they're in Africa. Parts of Africa are Muslim, parts are Christian, doesn't seem to change their problems very much.

The DRC is a VERY fucked up country. Doesn't get in the news much because it doesn't have oil. Diamonds and other metals are coming out regardless of the war. No, I said it wrong, they're coming out because of the war, they use these resources to buy weapons and the US is perfectly happy to allow this to continue. So it NEVER gets in the news.

So, in fact, MOST fucked up countries are not actually Muslim, they're actually Christian. But the religion is neither here nor there.

Fine, there are honor killings in Turkey. But a look at the map and you see it's geographical.

Honor killings spread from Turkey-Egypt in the west, over to Bangladesh in the east.

Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. China is the 8th largest Muslim country in the world. Many places in Africa are Muslim and yet there are no honor killings.

Uganda is Christian.

Honor killings are bad, they're barbaric, and yet it's based on geography and not religion.

India has honor killings. The state which is notorious is Haryana, 87% are Hindus. It's not about Islam.

Many people who commit honor killings are Muslim, but it's not because they're Muslim.

Most honor killings aren't to do with religion, they're to do with married, family honor and all that crap.

Hahahahahaha, looking at GDP to find out how backwards a country is....., well, stupid.

The most backwards country, let alone this planet, in this galaxy is Saudi Arabia, and yet, they are in the G20. Take a wild guess, why...

Backwardness in not in your wallet, it is in your head.

Backwards means reverse progress, meaning a detrimental progress in a society. All the countries you have named in your post are no backwards, they are just poor. They didnt have a chance to progress, because of their economic and environmental conditions.

On the other hand, most muslim countries are not poor, but contrary, have all the disposable income to make progress, somewhat reliable institutions that can support a healthy governmental system, some even had nationalism process happened to them, but yet, they just backtrack.

Take Turkey for example. Modern Republic of Turkey was setup in 1923, it was a secular country. And look at it now, the president openly can target the sect of the opposition leader. This is the definition of "backwards". reverse progressing from a nationalistic society, into a religious sectarian society. Couldn't been a better example to backwardness.......


Honor killings, UN report says they are most seen in muslim countries, but somehow concludes it has "nothing" to do with religion This is like sayin "junk food makes you fat but it has nothing to do with the sugar they put in it".

Of course it is the religion. You dont see it in most asian muslim countries, because they did not take islam with its face value, they have adapted it. The more you go outside from the center, the less effective islam will be. What did you expect?

You have the western countries in your map. But take a WILD guess, who are those people committing honor killings in those western countries? Just take a WILD guess...

Why no honor killings in China? HELLO, China is communist, you heard about that? Communism is a secular regime.

India, seriously... Take a very WILD guess again, what parts of India honor killings are the most? Let it be a WILD one?????
It is the north, Punjab, the Pakistani border, where the muslim population is the most. Indian women are much better off than the Pakistani women, ask any Pakistani...

Anyways, your map shows a very simple fact, muslim countries somehow are the center of this evil. And believe me, muslims are not stupid, they can see this too. Take Turkey as an example, when muslims in Turkey trying to make this point, you know what the islamists do, they do the exact same thing you are doing right now, they open up this map, show how US and England have honor killings too.

Really, the way liberals on this forum approaching to islam, trying to defend it against a very concrete criticism, is NOT helping muslims at all. They are in a spiral, they need to get out of it, and get out of it ASAP.

If you want to do something good for them, just tell the truth, to their face......

Looking at the GDP is stupid huh? Why's that? You didn't give me a list of countries that are backwards. So I went and chose quite a formidable way of looking at it.

So you say Saudi Arabia is the most backwards country. How have you reached that definition?

Why is Saudi Arabia more backwards than North Korea? A country which has a maniac leader and its people are kept totally under the thumb.
Is it more backwards than Madagascar? Than Bhutan? Than Burundi?

Do you know anything about these countries?

Oh, so, it means reverse. So, in the past 20 years how much has Saudi Arabia gone in reverse? I can find quite a few countries, like Burundi, Kenya, etc which have gone backwards in the last few years. Perhaps even the US has gone backwards in the last few years.

Honor killings are mostly in Muslim countries. This is where you have to look and understand areas and countries. Do you understand why Islam is in these countries and also why Honor killings are in these countries?

Why are there honor killings in India, in majority Hindu states in India, but not in African countries like Mali, Algeria etc?

DO you understand? Or is it just too convenient for you to paint a picture without bothering to understand what it is you're talking about?

You say "Of course it's religion", in which case it won't be too difficult to actually prove it, will it?

You've just stated that Punjab has the worst case of honor killings. Really?

Punjab is low (comparatively) on crimes against women. There maybe be lots of reasons for this.

India court seeks 'honour killing' response - BBC News

"Taking note of the rise in "honour crimes", the Supreme Court demanded responses from the the federal government and state governments of Punjab, Haryana, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Himachal Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh."

Religion Data - Population of Hindu / Muslim / Sikh / Christian - Census 2011 India


Punjab = 58% Sikh, 38% Hindu, 1.93% Muslims
It is Sikh majority according to the Indian Census of 2011. So much for your claim that because it's close to Pakistan it's Muslim.

Haryana = Hindu Majority. Hindu 87%, Muslim 7%.
Bihar = Hindu Majority. Hindu 82%, Muslim 16%
Uttar Pradesh = Hindu Majority. Hindu 79%, Muslim 19%
Rajasthan = Hindu Majority. Hindu 88%, Muslim 9%
Jharkhand = Hindu Majority. Hindu 67%, Muslim 14%
Himachal Pradesh = Hindu Majority. Hindu 95%, Muslim 2%
Madhya Pradesh= Hindu Majority. Hindu 90%, Muslim 6%

So, of the states with major honor killing problems, all but one of them is majority Hindu, the other being Sikh, and not Muslim as you claimed. Shows that you're not basing this on reality, but on what you want to believe. In fact the largest Muslim population of these is 19%. You think it's just the Muslims doing this? It isn't.


Yes, there is a problem with many Muslim countries. Why? Have you asked yourself why this happened? Have you looked into their history to see why this may be the case? I mean you can't even be fucking bothered to find out whether Punjab is Muslim or not. You look, see it's near Pakistan and put 2 and 2 together and make 22. Oh fucking great.

"Really, the way liberals on this forum approaching to islam, trying to defend it against a very concrete criticism, is NOT helping"

Concrete criticism huh? The only thing CONCRETE about it is that it might be that the brain has been replaced by concrete.

You've shown that you don't know what you're talking about. And yet you have the balls to say this is "concrete criticism". Bullshit is it. You're making it up as you go along.

‘Honor Killing’ In India: Couple Lynched, Burnt Alive In Eastern State Of Bihar; Case Filed Against 6 Men

Just one paragraph;

"Honor killings, which are typically the result of two young people marrying without the consent of their families and often across caste barriers -- hence bringing "dishonor" on the family -- are widespread in India, among all ethnic groups and religions, but especially in rural regions of the north and northwest."

Why??? Because north west borders Pakistan... There are enemy religions, islam is dominant enough, and worst of all, it is rural, so people can get away with it in most cases.

Put 2 and 2 together, it is 4. The reason you see it as 22, because in fact, you don't know Punjab has been divided. When refereed to Punjab, it can refer to the current much smaller state of Punjab, or a much larger area including the others you have mentioned with big muslim populations, like Pradesh..... Ask any Indian fiend you may have, ask google.....

"After the partition of India in 1947, the Punjab province of British India was divided between India and Pakistan. The Indian Punjab was divided in 1966 with the formation of the new states of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh alongside the current state of Punjab."

And I am from a muslim country, have a muslim background, and I want my people to be able to criticize their religion openly and freely. Islamists are enough of a discomfort when progressive muslims trying to make something out of these maps, seeing islam in the center of this shame. And western liberals on top of it is like an icing.

This is a serious and a very important problem to deal for muslims in particular, because they are failing to take a stand against it. When it is pointed out, they throw out the same arguments you are throwing at me right now. I know in India, Hindus are committing these crimes too, but at least it is not state sponsored, or state excused. When people point out these honor killings linked to Hinduism, they are not screaming in agony and rolling on the ground "oh meee, poooooor meeeee, my religion is under attack, ohhhhh my religion", but instead MAN UP and ACT UP!

Did you know India was able to cut honor killings significantly, while the numbers are riding like a wild horse in Pakistan. Take a wild guess again why.......


You clearly don't have all the facts, and more importantly, you don't have the experience on the field. Most liberals trying to somewhat protect islam from attacks here, unfortunately do not. When somebody pointing out: "ISLAM is creating VIOLENCE", this could be an attack, but this could be a criticism, and a concrete one too. Progressive muslims in muslim countries are trying to say this for years, and sometimes even get prosecuted for saying so, for gods sake......

But I respect your effort, really do, only if you knew better. And on that part, I just want you to trust me....

 

[Coyote]

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Domestic violence is domestic violence - whether it's inspired by religion, culture, or simple mysogeny - a woman is still brutally who shouldn't have been but you seem to think there is a difference.

 

[Coyote]

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

Because 'honor killing' is always done in the name allah. Just as lying stealing and cheating is always done in the name of allah. Just as murdering the 'infidel' is always done in the name of allah.
BIG difference.
It's like saying car thefts happen everywhere BUT having a verse in the koran demanding of all 'true believers' that every blue BMW on the planet must be stolen.

Honor killing is not done "in the name of Allah" - it's a cultural attitude prevalent in the Middle East and other areas where women have little value or rights: Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Examples...

India

In 2010, the Supreme Court of India issued notice in regard to honor killings to the states of Punjab, Haryana, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Himachal Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh.[186]
Honor killings have been reported in northern regions of India, mainly in the Indian states of Punjab, Rajasthan, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh, as a result of people marrying without their family's acceptance, and sometimes for marrying outside their caste or religion. In contrast, honor killings are rare to non-existent in South India and the western Indian states of Maharashtra and Gujarat. In some other parts of India, notably West Bengal, honor killings completely ceased about a century ago, largely due to the activism and influence of reformists such as Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Vidyasagar and Raja Ram Mohan Roy.[187]
of Punjab, Haryana, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Himachal Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh.[186]​

Punjab is majority Sikh and Hindu. Rajasthan, Haryana and Uttar Pradesh are also majority Hindu.

South America has it's own form of "Honor Killing" - "Crimes of Passion". Women aren't well regarded in those societies either.

 

[alpine]

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Domestic violence is domestic violence - whether it's inspired by religion, culture, or simple mysogeny - a woman is still brutally who shouldn't have been but you seem to think there is a difference.

Of course not.

I am talking about enablers to these horrific crimes.

Imagine yourself as a woman, honor killings taking place all over your country. People committing to honor killings get less of a penalty. Because, well, they have defended their honor at the end, right. The woman is the one committing the crime not protecting her honor, so she somewhat had it coming.

And as a woman, you are trying to appeal to the government, "change the penal code"... And all you get is; "don't exaggerate, it is all right...." (i didnt make this up, this is what happened)

The problem with muslim countries in particular, is that they are not secular. All religions have whacked up ideologies, but when you don't have a secular system in place, these whacked up ideologies can find their way to the places where they make the most damage, like judicial system for instance.

So the problem with muslim countries is not that they are muslim, the problem is they are not secular. Majority muslim population let islamists ride these countries the way they like em.

They could have setup secular nations like most of the rest of the world. It was their decision not to.
And their progressive minority muslims who are supporting secular regimes are aware of this fact. They see religion, islam in their case, in the center of all these problems, and they figure out being islamist is not the solution, but recognizing islam has its own defects and setup a secular nation instead seems like a good deal to them.

And it is a hell of a tough fight waiting for them.

As a westerner, a progressive, a liberal, a free mind,.... you have to take their side on this one.
YOU HAVE TO!!!

 

[dannyboys]

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Domestic violence is domestic violence - whether it's inspired by religion, culture, or simple mysogeny - a woman is still brutally who shouldn't have been but you seem to think there is a difference.

http://freethoughtnation.com/what-does-the-koran-say-about-women/
The undeniable fact remains Islam is religion which teaches misogyny and violence.

 

[whitehall]

They are also blowing themselves up and shooting at French police officers. Why does the left wing always tend to downplay the intelligence of the enemy and believe every editorial filtered through left wing media? Of course the jihad terrorist rhetoric condemns terrorism. That's what they want idiot low information lefties to believe.

 

[Coyote]

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Domestic violence is domestic violence - whether it's inspired by religion, culture, or simple mysogeny - a woman is still brutally who shouldn't have been but you seem to think there is a difference.

Of course not.

I am talking about enablers to these horrific crimes.

Imagine yourself as a woman, honor killings taking place all over your country. People committing to honor killings get less of a penalty. Because, well, they have defended their honor at the end, right. The woman is the one committing the crime not protecting her honor, so she somewhat had it coming.

And as a woman, you are trying to appeal to the government, "change the penal code"... And all you get is; "don't exaggerate, it is all right...." (i didnt make this up, this is what happened)

I see what you are saying - you're talking about it in an international context, I was referring to it in the US where domestic violence is far more prevalent than honor killings, and - like honor killing, women blame themselves - if only they'd been a better wife, or this or that.

The problem with muslim countries in particular, is that they are not secular. All religions have whacked up ideologies, but when you don't have a secular system in place, these whacked up ideologies can find their way to the places where they make the most damage, like judicial system for instance.

So the problem with muslim countries is not that they are muslim, the problem is they are not secular. Majority muslim population let islamists ride these countries the way they like em.

Totally agree!!!! It's the fact that we have a secular constitution, a seperation of church and state and a secular legal system that allows human rights, equality and freedom to flourish in a pluralistic society.

They could have setup secular nations like most of the rest of the world. It was their decision not to.

I'm not sure it's as simple as a "decision" or for that matter, a problem of religion - societies and cultures evolve. Cultures that place little value on women are those that have high rates of child marriages, abusive practices towards women and "honor killings" and those include non-Muslim cultures. Look at India for example. India has a horrendous rape problem and, honor killings (and this is amongst the Hindu majority). Rape is a male's perogative and if a woman is a lower caste, particularly the lowest - she is easy to victimize, and if she reports it - is unmarriageable, could be killed or evicted from her family. India has a secular constitution but enforcement is problematic particularly where the culture remains unchanged.

And their progressive minority muslims who are supporting secular regimes are aware of this fact. They see religion, islam in their case, in the center of all these problems, and they figure out being islamist is not the solution, but recognizing islam has its own defects and setup a secular nation instead seems like a good deal to them.

And it is a hell of a tough fight waiting for them.

As a westerner, a progressive, a liberal, a free mind,.... you have to take their side on this one.
YOU HAVE TO!!!

Totally agree. This is also bringing Islam to a reformation that is much needed.

 

[Coyote]

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

One is promoted by the religious culture, and favored by the juridical system,

because muslims cant get it together for a secular regime.....

Domestic violence is domestic violence - whether it's inspired by religion, culture, or simple mysogeny - a woman is still brutally who shouldn't have been but you seem to think there is a difference.

http://freethoughtnation.com/what-does-the-koran-say-about-women/
The undeniable fact remains Islam is religion which teaches misogyny and violence.

They all do: The Dark Bible: Women's Inferior Status

Fortunately we live under a secular system.

 

[Pogo]

Are you talking all Muslims or are you talking about some of the backwards countries that also happen to be Muslim countries?

Do they have many honor killings in Turkey or Indonesia?

Honor killing are on the rise in the United States and in Canada. Committed by imported Muslims, proving that their atavistic cruel 7th century nature has not changed by civilization around them.

Look it up. Wiki is your friend.

because they happen so often here...

So, you don't believe in "even one is too many" any more?

Why do you guys act like honor killing is so much worse than other domestic violence? Both end up with a woman dead.

Because 'honor killing' is always done in the name allah. Just as lying stealing and cheating is always done in the name of allah. Just as murdering the 'infidel' is always done in the name of allah.
BIG difference.
It's like saying car thefts happen everywhere BUT having a verse in the koran demanding of all 'true believers' that every blue BMW on the planet must be stolen.

"Honor" killing has nothing to do with Allah or any other deity. It has to do with that family's social status. It's a community thing, and it's far older than Islam, or Hinduism, or any other religion that happens to be coincident with it.

Coincidence is not correlation. Attributing HBV to Islam is like attributing the Grand Canyon to the state government of Arizona. You're imagining a causation for something that was already there before Arizona or Islam existed.