MW advocates - what are the downsides of minimum wage?

[Wyatt earp]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

 

[Mac1958]

There is a significant difference between a tax deduction and a tax credit. They're only getting a deduction.

Plus they're still having to use current cash flow to pay the employees long before any deductions are claimed or realized.

This just isn't a selling point to a business owner. Anyone trying this one would get laughed out of a business owner's office.
.

You realize that businesses pay their quarterly taxes in advance...right?

Yes. I do, and so do my business owner clients. The cash still has to be there. And they're still only getting deductions.
.

"Only getting deduction"?

That means that they come right off the top of gross revenue.

Make $100K in revenue and have $80K in expenses (including payroll) and you're taxed on $20K

Make $100K and have $90K in expenses and you're taxed on $10K

It's not dollar for dollar but it mitigates the increase tremendously

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

 

[Lesh]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

Monetary policy causes inflation ...NOT increased minimum wage

And guess what? We NEED (low) inflation. That's how we pay down our national debt and in fact our home mortgages

 

[Wyatt earp]

You realize that businesses pay their quarterly taxes in advance...right?

Yes. I do, and so do my business owner clients. The cash still has to be there. And they're still only getting deductions.
.

"Only getting deduction"?

That means that they come right off the top of gross revenue.

Make $100K in revenue and have $80K in expenses (including payroll) and you're taxed on $20K

Make $100K and have $90K in expenses and you're taxed on $10K

It's not dollar for dollar but it mitigates the increase tremendously

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

So it's throwing peanuts out .

Yea that's what I thought.

 

[hadit]

Thats also a dumb argument. Welfare wasnt meant to be for anyone other than whites but that too changed with time. The facts are that people with families are working shitty jobs for low wages. The MW should be something that gives people with a work ethic a reason to not be on welfare.

So how does rasing minimum wage help?

If MW were raised to $11 an hour , welfare use would drop by at least 15% by most studies. That's a pretty good savings of tax dollars.

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

Monetary policy causes inflation ...NOT increased minimum wage

And guess what? We NEED (low) inflation. That's how we pay down our national debt and in fact our home mortgages

Prove it ..


If raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation then we all would be rich.


.

 

[Mac1958]

Yes. I do, and so do my business owner clients. The cash still has to be there. And they're still only getting deductions.
.

"Only getting deduction"?

That means that they come right off the top of gross revenue.

Make $100K in revenue and have $80K in expenses (including payroll) and you're taxed on $20K

Make $100K and have $90K in expenses and you're taxed on $10K

It's not dollar for dollar but it mitigates the increase tremendously

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

So it's throwing peanuts out .

Yea that's what I thought.

From your perspective, sure.
.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So how does rasing minimum wage help?

If MW were raised to $11 an hour , welfare use would drop by at least 15% by most studies. That's a pretty good savings of tax dollars.

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

They can demand what ever the fuck they want, but the Money is not there, over 80% of the companies in the US are small business owners..

 

[hadit]

You can't get ahead if everyone gets a raise..


Duh!


Economics 101

.

Everyone having a million dollars is no different from no one having any dollars. It is the differential that makes money move.

 

[Wyatt earp]

"Only getting deduction"?

That means that they come right off the top of gross revenue.

Make $100K in revenue and have $80K in expenses (including payroll) and you're taxed on $20K

Make $100K and have $90K in expenses and you're taxed on $10K

It's not dollar for dollar but it mitigates the increase tremendously

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

So it's throwing peanuts out .

Yea that's what I thought.

From your perspective, sure.
.

So you want to pay more money for a Snickers bar?


Why don't you just give the clerk a huge tip?

 

[hadit]

If MW were raised to $11 an hour , welfare use would drop by at least 15% by most studies. That's a pretty good savings of tax dollars.

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

They can demand what ever the fuck they want, but the Money is not there, over 80% of the companies in the US are small business owners..

Yup, which is only one reason why jacking the MW too high too fast would cause so many problems. Why continue in a profession that demands continuing technical education and exacting precision when you can make nearly as much in a MW job?

 

[Wyatt earp]

You can't get ahead if everyone gets a raise..


Duh!


Economics 101

.

Everyone having a million dollars is no different from no one having any dollars. It is the differential that makes money move.

No shit..

If you had a million dollars and I had 50 cents you would have more money and value


If we both had a million dollars you are no better than me..


We are both poor..

.

 

[sartre play]

Well we need to do some thing, when the richest most powerful country in the world has as many people living in substandard housing, vets & others living on the street something is very wrong, and hate wont fix it.

 

[Lesh]

Prove it ..


If raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation then we all would be rich.

WTF?

So you're saying that you have no idea how the economic system in the country works?

You HAVE heard of the Federal Reserve...right? You understand that they control the money supply and that the money supply determines inflation to a large extent?

Oh wait. You don't have a clue.

Never mind

 

[DandyDonovan]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

Oh shocker , we've had inflation since 1938..... You just won the internet with that revelation.........

Inflation happens independent of the minimum wage. Which isn't to say that an outrageous rise in the MW wouldn't increase inflation, it most certainly would, but it is to say inflation is going to happen either way.

The HILARIOUS thing is I am quite sure that you argue that man made climate control is a joke because the climate changes whether man does anything to it or not, right?

The whole correlation without causation argument doesn't only exist where you want it to.

Stupid.

 

[Wyatt earp]

"Only getting deduction"?

That means that they come right off the top of gross revenue.

Make $100K in revenue and have $80K in expenses (including payroll) and you're taxed on $20K

Make $100K and have $90K in expenses and you're taxed on $10K

It's not dollar for dollar but it mitigates the increase tremendously

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

So it's throwing peanuts out .

Yea that's what I thought.

From your perspective, sure.
.

So you want to pay more money for a steak and why?


Because it makes you feel good?


You do know their is a tip box on your recipt right?


*Shrugs*


You can give your server what ever you like



.

 

[DandyDonovan]

So how does rasing minimum wage help?

If MW were raised to $11 an hour , welfare use would drop by at least 15% by most studies. That's a pretty good savings of tax dollars.

How much will inflation go up after they have to give me and every other worker above minimum wage another $4.00 an hour raise to keep my pay in line?

How silly. First of all, sorry you're only earning minimum wage, second of all, a small portion of wage earners are and would thus receive a $4 an hour raise. Most people are already around the $9-10 range (lower end workers we're talking about) and thus would receive at most a $2 an hour raise, and that is if we immediately raised it to the correct level, which I haven't advocated.

So people making $9 an hour would get a raise to make minimum wage


.

The ripple effect would be huge. Everyone making $11-$12/hr, for instance, would also demand a raise because all of a sudden they would only be making a little above minimum and all their skill, training and experience wouldn't get them much more than a guy of the street sweeping floors. Many pharmacy techs, for example, make $10-$12/hr, have to be trained and licensed, and we trust them with our medications.

And who cares if they get raises or not, that's between them and their employers. We're talking about the MINIMUM here, not people who are making slightly more than the new minimum would be.

 

[Mac1958]

Sure it mitigates it, but it is still a net expense because it's not a credit. A business owner will point that out right away.

I'm actually not arguing against raising the MW (I give reasons for it in post 112), I'm just trying to stay factual. My reasons for supporting are more cultural than economic.
.

Yea you want it to feel good.

Yet instead of paying $1 buck for a coke you now pay $1.28.


.

It's not about "feel good", it's about avoiding electoral revolution.
.

So it's throwing peanuts out .

Yea that's what I thought.

From your perspective, sure.
.

So you want to pay more money for a steak and why?


Because it makes you feel good?


You do know their is a tip box on your recipt right?


*Shrugs*


You can give your server what ever you like



.

Is this really as deep as this conversation is going to get?

If so, never mind.
.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

Oh shocker , we've had inflation since 1938..... You just won the internet with that revelation.........

Inflation happens independent of the minimum wage. Which isn't to say that an outrageous rise in the MW wouldn't increase inflation, it most certainly would, but it is to say inflation is going to happen either way.

The HILARIOUS thing is I am quite sure that you argue that man made climate control is a joke because the climate changes whether man does anything to it or not, right?

The whole correlation without causation argument doesn't only exist where you want it to.

Stupid.

You going in la la Land ?


What does natural climate change have to do with minimum wage?

 

[DandyDonovan]

If raising the minimum wage actually caused unemployment and inflation, if be against it too. But it doesn't.

Of course it does ..MW used to be 25 cents an hour.


.

Oh shocker , we've had inflation since 1938..... You just won the internet with that revelation.........

Inflation happens independent of the minimum wage. Which isn't to say that an outrageous rise in the MW wouldn't increase inflation, it most certainly would, but it is to say inflation is going to happen either way.

The HILARIOUS thing is I am quite sure that you argue that man made climate control is a joke because the climate changes whether man does anything to it or not, right?

The whole correlation without causation argument doesn't only exist where you want it to.

Stupid.

You going in la la Land ?


What does natural climate change have to do with minimum wage?



View attachment 231859

Are you kidding me? They have logical consistency to do with each other. You can't argue for correlation without causation in one area and then argue against it in another. It's illogical.