No Apology but Good Thinking

[Divine Wind]

A freind of mine does business in Asia, especially in Japan.......he told me that racism is just accepted there.....they don't even think about it and have no intention of addressing it...it is just the way it is......

No doubt. They refuse to admit wrongdoing in their part of starting WWII and committing tens of thousands of atrocities because they feel they did nothing wrong. People who think Americans are the epitome of arrogant assholes have never dealt with the Japanese.

 

[Unkotare]

A freind of mine does business in Asia, especially in Japan.......he told me that racism is just accepted there.....they don't even think about it and have no intention of addressing it...it is just the way it is......

No doubt. They refuse to admit wrongdoing in their part of starting WWII and committing tens of thousands of atrocities .......

Patently false.

 

[Divine Wind]

"Nuke'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"

 

[Unkotare]

Before any other sick fucks feel the need to post more snuff porn, atrocities committed by the Imperial Japanese military during WWII are not in dispute, so for the purposes of discussion they may be taken as a given.

 

[Unkotare]

List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/13/world/asia/japan-ww2-shinzo-abe.html?_r=0


Why Are Japan’s Apologies Forgotten?

 

[Divine Wind]

Begorrah!, if a person wants to understand another culture, they should study that culture's history and geography. A brutal culture which has no qualms about murdering non-members, even committing mass murder as a self-righteous act of conquest, is a culture that must be stopped at all costs because they can't be reasoned with.

No apology needed.

 

[Unkotare]

Begorrah!, if a person wants to understand another culture, they should study that culture's history and geography. ....

Study and understand. You fail at the latter.


Once again, atrocities committed by the Imperial Japanese military are not in contention. If some wish to claim the incineration of hundreds of thousands of civilians was an act of revenge rather than military necessity, they should say so directly and consider the consequences of that position.

 

[Divine Wind]

Operation Downfall was the code name for the invasion of Japan. It was a two-part plan including Operation Olympic, the invasion of Kyushu, and Operation Coronet, the invasion of Tokyo using Kyushu as a launch point. Projected casualty figures based on previous battles were

Chapter 13: "DOWNFALL"- The Plan for the Invasion of Japan

Operation Downfall - History Learning Site
Operation Downfall was the name given to the planned invasion of Japan. Operation Downfall itself was divided into two parts – Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet. By mid-1945, it was apparent that the collapse of Japan was near and the Allies had to plan for the invasion of the Japanese mainland – something that they knew would be very costly in terms of lives lost.....

....The main concern for the Americans was the potential for huge casualty rates. Nearly every senior officer involved in the planning did his own research regarding American casualties – this was based on the experience America had fighting the Japanese since Pearl Harbour.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff estimated that Olympic alone would cost 456,000 men, including 109,000 killed. Including Coronet, it was estimated that America would experience 1.2 million casualties, with 267,000 deaths.

Staff working for Chester Nimitz, calculated that the first 30 days of Olympic alone would cost 49,000 men.MacArthur’s staff concluded that America would suffer 125,000 casualties after 120 days, a figure that was later reduced to 105,000 casualties after his staff subtracted the men who when wounded could return to battle.

General Marshall, in conference with President Truman, estimated 31,000 in 30 days after landing in Kyushu. Admiral Leahy estimated that the invasion would cost 268,000 casualties. Personnel at the Navy Department estimated that the total losses to America would be between 1.7 and 4 million with 400,000 to 800,000 deaths. The same department estimated that there would be up to 10 million Japanese casualties. The ‘Los Angeles Times’ estimated that America would suffer up to 1 million casualties.

Regardless of which figures were used, it was an accepted fact that America would lose a very large number of men. This was one of the reasons why President Truman authorised the use of the atomic bomb in an effort to get Japan to surrender. On August 6th, ‘Little Boy’ was dropped on Hiroshima and on August 9th, ‘Fat Man’ was dropped on Nagasaki. On September 2nd, Japan surrendered and America and her allies were spared the task of invading Japan with the projected massive casualties this would entail.

 

[Divine Wind]

The sneak attack that began it all:

Pearl Harbor - World War II - HISTORY.com
Just before 8 a.m. on December 7, 1941, hundreds of Japanese fighter planes attacked the American naval base at Pearl Harbor near Honolulu, Hawaii. The barrage lasted just two hours, but it was devastating: The Japanese managed to destroy nearly 20 American naval vessels, including eight enormous battleships, and more than 300 airplanes. More than 2,000 Americans soldiers and sailors died in the attack, and another 1,000 were wounded. The day after the assault, President Franklin D. Roosevelt asked Congress to declare war on Japan; Congress approved his declaration with just one dissenting vote. Three days later, Japanese allies Germany and Italy also declared war on the United States, and again Congress reciprocated. More than two years into the conflict, America had finally joined World War II.

Japanese Attack Pearl Harbor Video - Pearl Harbor - HISTORY.com

 

[Unkotare]

"Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:



The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"


"Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:



The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"


MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb

 

[OldLady]

I can see why you might take it that way. But who is their (nukes) cheerleader, except that asshole in North Korea? In a world of restless souls, to be safe you need weapons as big as the other guy. I get that. So does Obama. In trying to limit their increase and spread throughout the world, the right seems to feel he is being a pussy. I think he's being a dreamer working for an unachievable but necessary ideal.

Today he trying to limit weapon jointly for the peace - tomorrow he producing new one, laughing on "stupid peacelovers" and awarding his command by medals of "cold war win" )) I already know this joke...

Where are you from? Russia (just guessing from your hat)? If you think he's funny, wait 'til the next one gets in.

I'm enjoying the all situations US never been invaded for a 150 years, have a largest army and fleet - and you all seriously talking about "enemy aggression"... What is this - paranoia or doublethink? And you claim Russians as crazy, because we have Perimeter system (knowing as Dead Hand ))

Not everyone is as PARANOID as some of the posters here.

But voice of paranoids louder and more significant?

Just louder. Certainly not worth more. They like to think so on this board, though.

 

[Divine Wind]

Most students of history know that atomic weaponry research in the US began out of reaction to intelligence proving the Nazis were ardently working on it themselves. It was a combination of fortune and irony that the Nazis zigged when they should have zagged in their research. The irony being that the scientists who correctly predicted the correct path of research were all Jewish and had fled Germany and Italy due to fascist antisemitism. Of course, no one knew this with certainty at the time. Most people who Monday morning quarterback the development, much less the use, of atomic weapons do so with full 20/20 hindsight, not the often-blind guesswork of the time.

Truman Library: The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb Online Research File

Truman Presidency Exhibit - Harry S. Truman Presidential Museum & Library

The decision to use the atomic bomb | atomic bomb
The military situation in the Pacific
When Truman became president, a long and bitter military campaign in the Pacific, marked by fanatical Japanese resistance and strongly held racial and cultural hostilities on both sides, was nearing its conclusion. In February 1945, about a month after he was sworn in as vice president, American troops invaded the small island of Iwo Jima, located 760 miles (1,220 km) from Tokyo. The Americans took four weeks to defeat the Japanese forces and suffered nearly 30,000 casualties. On April 1, 12 days before he became president, the United States invaded Okinawa, located just 350 miles (560 km) south of the Japanese home island of Kyushu. The battle of Okinawa was one of the fiercest of the Pacific war. The small island was defended by 100,000 Japanese troops, and Japanese military leaders attempted—with some success—to mobilize the island’s entire civilian population. Offshore, Japanesekamikaze planes inflicted severe losses on the American fleet. After nearly 12 weeks of fighting, the United States secured the island on June 21 at a cost of nearly 50,000 American casualties. Japanese casualties were staggering, with approximately 90,000 defending troops and at least 100,000 civilians killed.

The Americans considered Okinawa a dress rehearsal for the invasion of the Japanese home islands, for which the United States was finalizing a two-stage plan. The first phase, code-named Olympic, was scheduled for late October 1945, with a landing on Kyushu, defended by an estimated 350,000 Japanese troops backed by at least 1,000 kamikaze planes. Olympic entailed the use of nearly 800,000 American assault troops and an enormous naval fleet. The scale of the operation was to be similar to that of the Normandy invasion in France in June 1944, which involved 156,000 Allied troops in the first 24 hours and approximately 850,000 others by the end of the first week of July. Estimates of casualties from an invasion of Japan varied, but nearly everyone involved in the planning assumed that they would be substantial; mid-range estimates projected 132,000 American casualties, with 40,000 deaths. Truman told his military advisers that he hoped “there was a possibility of preventing an Okinawa from one end of Japan to another.”

The second phase of the plan, code-named Curtis LeMay, the commander of American air forces in the Pacific, estimated that by the end of September he would have destroyed every target in Japan worth hitting. The argument that Japan would have collapsed by early fall is speculative but powerful. Nevertheless, all the evidence available to Washington indicated that Japan planned to fight to the end.

 

[Unkotare]

"In a private letter to Navy historian Robert G. Albion concerning a clearer assurance that the Emperor would not be displaced, Strauss observed:



This was omitted from the Potsdam declaration and as you are undoubtedly aware was the only reason why it was not immediately accepted by the Japanese who were beaten and knew it before the first atomic bomb was dropped. (See p. 393, Chapter 31)"

 

[Unkotare]

"In his "third person" autobiography (co-authored with Walter Muir Whitehill) the commander in chief of the U.S. Fleet and chief of Naval Operations, Ernest J. King, stated:



The President in giving his approval for these [atomic] attacks appeared to believe that many thousands of American troops would be killed in invading Japan, and in this he was entirely correct; but King felt, as he had pointed out many times, that the dilemma was an unnecessary one, for had we been willing to wait, the effective naval blockade would, in the course of time, have starved the Japanese into submission through lack of oil, rice, medicines, and other essential materials. (See p. 327, Chapter 26)"

 

[Unkotare]

"As Japan faltered in July an effort was made by several top Navy officials--almost certainly including Secretary Forrestal himself--to end the war without using the atomic bomb. Forrestal made a special trip to Potsdam to discuss the issue and was involved in the Atlantic Charter broadcast. Many other top Admirals criticized the bombing both privately and publicly. (Forrestal, see pp. 390-392, Chapter 31; p. 398, Chapter 31) (Strauss, see p. 333, Chapter 26; pp. 393-394, Chapter 31) (Bard, see pp. 225-227, Chapter 18; pp. 390-391, Chapter 31)"

 

[Unkotare]

"In his memoirs Admiral William D. Leahy, the President's Chief of Staff--and the top official who presided over meetings of both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Combined U.S.-U.K. Chiefs of Staff--minced few words:



[T]he use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . .


n being the first to use it, we . . . adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. (See p. 3, Introduction)"

 

[OldLady]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

 

[Unkotare]

"The commanding general of the U.S. Army Air Forces, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Times reporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said:

• 
  
  The Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air. (See p. 334, Chapter 27)
  In his 1949 memoirs Arnold observed that "it always appeared to us that, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse." (See p. 334, Chapter 27)
  
  
  
  
• Arnold's deputy, Lieutenant General Ira C. Eaker, summed up his understanding this way in an internal military history interview:
  
  
  Arnold's view was that it [the dropping of the atomic bomb] was unnecessary. He said that he knew the Japanese wanted peace. There were political implications in the decision and Arnold did not feel it was the military's job to question it. (See p. 335, Chapter 27)
  Eaker reported that Arnold told him:
  
  
  
  When the question comes up of whether we use the atomic bomb or not, my view is that the Air Force will not oppose the use of the bomb, and they will deliver it effectively if the Commander in Chief decides to use it. But it is not necessary to use it in order to conquer the Japanese without the necessity of a land invasion. (See p. 335, Chapter 27)"

 

[SassyIrishLass]

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

NO ONE comes out of a war like that smelling like a rose. They did wrong. We did wrong. The Nazis did wrong. It's over. Our president's point is, how do we prevent it from happening again? Not by continuing to point fingers at one another and continue the ill will.

Peace is a pipe dream, there has been war since the beginning and there will be war until the end. Obungles should have kept his sorry ass home instead of once again making himself look like the jackass he is

 

[Eaglewings]

There's seldom any upside to waking up at 4:30 a.m., but this morning I turned on the telly to find our President just beginning his remarks at Hiroshima. He didn't apologize for anything. It was a great speech. Thoughtful.

At the bottom of the page is a button for "Listen" to full remarks. 17 minutes. Very much worth listening to.

Obama Makes Historic Visit To Hiroshima Memorial Peace Park

Have a great and peaceful day.

I know its going to be a lazy day when I wake up before 6 am. I stopped taking ambien and I sleep very well.
I also started taking Black Cohosh to stop hot flashes from a cancer treatment that used to wake me up..

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