No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Ray From Cleveland]

Any Human Being,

it seems the basic values of conservatives are more reptilian than human. Once it appeared it was simply greed which motivated the hoi polloi to the Republican Party in the 1980's; now it seems the character flaws run much deeper. Lacking empathy and withholding care from others is not only mean spirited, it is inhuman and that stands out as the most obvious flaw of the 21st Century (callous) conservatives.

It is the mastery of the super wealthy

To divert attention away from the obscene portion of wealth that they have taken, they point to the poorest Americans and scream....There is the reason you are suffering

The wealthy don't "take" wealth, they earn it like everybody else.

Tell us how trust-fund babies "earn" their wealth. (Excluding Paris Hilton; at least she got off her skinny butt long enough to make porn.)

I don't consider the entertainment industry as earning their wealth. They are doing what they love to do whether they get paid or not. But I never hear anybody from the left complain about what they make a year.

Most wealthy people are not trust fund babies. Most earn their wealth in business and investments.

There are trust-fund babies, then there's the other inherited-wealth sector. Eliminate those, and what percentage are, in your words, "earning their wealth in investments"?

Just sitting there waiting for your broker to let you know how much you've earned this quarter isn't "working" by any sane definition, but go for it. Give us some stats to go with your opinion.

Then we can talk about the self-made b/millionaires. But do yourself a favor and rule out the ones who need to file for bankruptcy every few years, mmkay?

Who are the "Rich"?
November 13, 2003

Many Americans do not know who the rich really are. According to David Hogberg of the Public Interest Institute, many equate being rich with lives represented on television shows like "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous."

In their book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," professors Thomas Stanley and William Danko have tried to clear up these misconceptions. They found:

• Millionaires became millionaires by budgeting and controlling expenses, and they maintain their affluent status the same way; for example, 60 percent have never spent more than $32,000 for a car.
• Much of the money they save goes to investing; the average millionaire household invests up to 20 percent of its income annually.
• Contrary to popular belief, most millionaires are not bankers, attorneys or corporate managers; most typically are locally-based professionals such as welding contractors, auctioneers, pest controllers and paving contractors.
• Eighty percent of millionaires are first-generation millionaires.
• Most millionaires do not spend their time out on the golf course or vacationing on the Riviera; nearly two-thirds work between 45 and 55 hours a week.

The evidence shows that people who are rich do not fit the stereotypes that many Americans have about them. By and large, they are frugal, prudent, hard-working entrepreneurs who did not receive their wealth from inheritance.

Sources: David Hogberg, "Who are the 'Rich'?" Public Interest Institute at Iowa Wesleyan College, September 2003, Public Interest Institute; based on Thomas Stanley and William Danko, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," Pocket Books, New York, 1996.

- See more at: Who are the "Rich"?

 

[beagle9]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business. Isn't that the way it's suppose to be ?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

Then why do I remember that story of a couple people in Arizona who died because they weren't given heart transplants they couldn't afford?

The fact that we can do heart transplants means we have to do one for everyone who needs/wants one?
What about a head transplant?

Someone claimed no one is denied healthcare. I pointed out why they are full of shit.

Your post is comically irrelevant.

 

[ZackB]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

Then why do I remember that story of a couple people in Arizona who died because they weren't given heart transplants they couldn't afford?

The fact that we can do heart transplants means we have to do one for everyone who needs/wants one?
What about a head transplant?

yes, if you're not rich, you should die. right, genius?

Right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

The same applies to education. Are you also in favor of the poor being less educated than the rich?

Education is mostly a local thing run by towns and cities. If not that, by county or even help from the state. It's up to the people how much they wish to contribute to education.

I accept your surrender on the point,

dumbass.

 

[beagle9]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

The same applies to education. Are you also in favor of the poor being less educated than the rich?

Education is mostly a local thing run by towns and cities. If not that, by county or even help from the state. It's up to the people how much they wish to contribute to education.

There is a base line, and then there are added contributions after that in which increases quality.

 

[ZackB]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

Then why do I remember that story of a couple people in Arizona who died because they weren't given heart transplants they couldn't afford?

The fact that we can do heart transplants means we have to do one for everyone who needs/wants one?
What about a head transplant?

Someone claimed no one is denied healthcare. I pointed out why they are full of shit.

Your post is comically irrelevant.

You were wrong, as would be clear if you had read my prior postings on this matter.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business.

And you think insurance companies don't do that too???

 

[beagle9]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business.

And you think insurance companies don't do that too???

. Why do I need them to do that for me ? Why can't we get the bang for our tax-bucks out of government that we deserve ? Why are we paying double and triple for everything, and getting crap in return ?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why wouldn't you want all Americans to have healthcare regardless of their ability to pay?

What is so alluring about the idea that the poor are less healthy than the rich?

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

The same applies to education. Are you also in favor of the poor being less educated than the rich?

Education is mostly a local thing run by towns and cities. If not that, by county or even help from the state. It's up to the people how much they wish to contribute to education.

There is a base line, and then there are added contributions after that in which increases quality.

No, money doesn't equate outcome.

The US spends more per capita on education than any other industrialized country, yet we have mediocre results to show for that.

I spent much of my time in a private Catholic school. We didn't have a cafeteria, we didn't have different classrooms to switch to, we didn't rely on taxpayer money--not one dime. It was funded by the parishioners of the church and we held rummage and bake sales to raise money for the school. We would go door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood.

In spite of our teachers not having the diplomas on the wall, in spite of having everyday nuns teaching the students, I would put any of those classmates of mine against any public school student any day of the week.

Even teachers would tell you the problem with education is at home less than the school. In the black community, 73% of children are born out of wedlock, and single-parent homes have a direct relationship to poverty.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why? Because when they get care, somebody else has to pay.

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business.

And you think insurance companies don't do that too???

. Why do I need them to do that for me ? Why can't we get the bang for our tax-bucks out of government that we deserve ? Why are we paying double and triple for everything, and getting crap in return ?

One of the reasons is that our government funded programs only pay providers 2/3 of the bill. In order for doctors and clinics to recoup those losses, they increase prices on private pay and private insured patients. That keeps the price of premiums rising.

This is why there is a growing trend of doctors and hospitals refusing new government patients. This is why when you see a closing of a medical facility, it's usually in poorer areas where most of the people are government patients.

"Government is not the solutions to our problems............government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan

 

[beagle9]

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business.

And you think insurance companies don't do that too???

. Why do I need them to do that for me ? Why can't we get the bang for our tax-bucks out of government that we deserve ? Why are we paying double and triple for everything, and getting crap in return ?

One of the reasons is that our government funded programs only pay providers 2/3 of the bill. In order for doctors and clinics to recoup those losses, they increase prices on private pay and private insured patients. That keeps the price of premiums rising.

This is why there is a growing trend of doctors and hospitals refusing new government patients. This is why when you see a closing of a medical facility, it's usually in poorer areas where most of the people are government patients.

"Government is not the solutions to our problems............government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan

. Nope, my plan or idea would solve all these problems.. No more finger pointing, just a system that works for we the people, by the people and for the people. Have to start somewhere, because this is killing this nation and it's economy.

 

[regent]

Do Americans have the right to free speech?

 

[beagle9]

. If I know that I am helping in a pool so that others can get life sustaining healthcare, then I will walk around with a smile on my face always... Now the problems that allow bad people to rob and corrupt the system, shouldn't make it bad for the good who are in the system, but it should only be bad for those who are bad/criminals corrupting the system. That is the gun philosophy isn't it ? All I see in a lot of this, are people wanting to protect profits and the profiteering industry who makes a killing off of human suffering.

You mean like doctors, hospitals, clinics, medical device companies............

I do hope you're family is planning on burying you when you die. Those funeral parlors make a killing.

My government healthcare card would cover all that, and my smart shopping with that card would help to get prices in line like they should be... If a buisness, clinic, doctor, hospital or funeral home charges to much, then me and whom ever else that don't want our taxes/deductions to go up, would shop wisely and smartly in the market place for the best prices and best quality service. The abusers will fall by the way side, and go out of business.

And you think insurance companies don't do that too???

. Why do I need them to do that for me ? Why can't we get the bang for our tax-bucks out of government that we deserve ? Why are we paying double and triple for everything, and getting crap in return ?

One of the reasons is that our government funded programs only pay providers 2/3 of the bill. In order for doctors and clinics to recoup those losses, they increase prices on private pay and private insured patients. That keeps the price of premiums rising.

This is why there is a growing trend of doctors and hospitals refusing new government patients. This is why when you see a closing of a medical facility, it's usually in poorer areas where most of the people are government patients.

"Government is not the solutions to our problems............government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan

It's odd you start your post with we didn't have this or we didn't have that as if it was a good thing that you went through, and that it helped y'all in your struggles in life. Now this was what, uh all in order for you to make a point.about why we should somehow revel in our struggles within a class warfare healthcare system ?.. Wow.

How about if you

had what you needed, and then it set the stage for you to improve on that with far less difficulty or struggle in life ?

 

[jillian]

Do Americans have the right to free speech?

yes. we have free speech. and others have the right to treat you like an idiot if you say stupid or hateful things.

 

[Arianrhod]

"Government is not the solutions to our problems............government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan

Said the guy who spent how many decades in government?

 

[auditor0007]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

You are factually incorrect. I have a family member who had cancer and needed surgery. It was planned - surgery was scheduled 2-3 months after diagnosis. She had no insurance no means to pay. The surgery ended up costing her nearly $100k. I know this because I helped her negotiate and settle the bills. On the morning of the surgery I gave the hospital $1,000.00. She had the surgery. This was pre-ACA.

I have worked through the process, and I do not make factual assertions unless I know them to be true, unlike 95% of you here.

In some cases, they may be treated, but not in all. I know that my wife would never have been given a bone marrow transplant if we didn't have health insurance, because that is exactly what we were told by the hospital. The cost was just too great, and they couldn't afford to do it pro bono. Unfortunately, my wife didn't make it even with the bone marrow transplant. BTW, $100k is peanuts. My wife's bills exceeded $1 million, and that was in 2002. Without insurance, people would receive treatment, but there were and are definitely limits to that treatment. The other side of this is that when people like your family member go without insurance, then get treated for $100k, and then cannot pay, guess who pays for it. I do, that's who. Anyone who has insurance pays for the leeches who refuse to carry insurance on themselves. It kills me when conservatives whine about those on medicaid leeching off of them but then they themselves do not want to fully insure themselves leaving everyone else to pay their bills for them.

 

[auditor0007]

"Government is not the solutions to our problems............government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan

Said the guy who spent how many decades in government?

Anyone who believes government is the solution to all of our problems is as nutty as anyone who believes that government is always the problem.

 

[beagle9]

Even prior to the ACA nobody was denied access to healthcare. If you walked into a publicly funded hospital with a stab wound or drug overdose they were required to take care of you.

If you walked in with cancer and needed treatment, they may or may not treat you. Hospitals only have to stabilize the person. They do not have to offer full treatment if the person is not capable of making payment. What I find a bit odd is that conservatives are against forcing people to buy health insurance, but they seem to have no problem with the idea, as false as it is, that hospitals must treat patients who cannot pay? How is that based on a free market economy? If you can't pay, the hospital should be able to tell you to go home and die if you truly believe in free markets without regulation.

You are factually incorrect. I have a family member who had cancer and needed surgery. It was planned - surgery was scheduled 2-3 months after diagnosis. She had no insurance no means to pay. The surgery ended up costing her nearly $100k. I know this because I helped her negotiate and settle the bills. On the morning of the surgery I gave the hospital $1,000.00. She had the surgery. This was pre-ACA.

I have worked through the process, and I do not make factual assertions unless I know them to be true, unlike 95% of you here.

In some cases, they may be treated, but not in all. I know that my wife would never have been given a bone marrow transplant if we didn't have health insurance, because that is exactly what we were told by the hospital. The cost was just too great, and they couldn't afford to do it pro bono. Unfortunately, my wife didn't make it even with the bone marrow transplant. BTW, $100k is peanuts. My wife's bills exceeded $1 million, and that was in 2002. Without insurance, people would receive treatment, but there were and are definitely limits to that treatment. The other side of this is that when people like your family member go without insurance, then get treated for $100k, and then cannot pay, guess who pays for it. I do, that's who. Anyone who has insurance pays for the leeches who refuse to carry insurance on themselves. It kills me when conservatives whine about those on medicaid leeching off of them but then they themselves do not want to fully insure themselves leaving everyone else to pay their bills for them.

. Not just conservatives, but all across the board or spectrum is the case.

 

[beagle9]

The private sector knows that the government has a vested interest in making sure that the citizens are helped, and so with the private sector having millions in their banks, they just simply wait out the government until it pays. If they couldn't do this or it wouldn't work, then they would bring the prices down to a more realistic price for their services or their products.