Zone1 No Wonder Why I Had Doubts In God's Existence Before

[ding]

Maybe so. I wasn't there. But I have always taken it as the ultimate sacrifice as if the physical torture wasn't enough there was mental anguish too.

It made sense to me when I learned about it. He was being heckled. He referred them to Psalm 22 which was a poignant response. And the heckling stopped. That's what the account shows.

 

[alang1216]

I don't think an atheist can skip steps in figuring out who God is unless he first believes there is a God in the first place.

Of course that means he is not an atheist. Actually, I agree. You can only know God if you start out with faith.

All I can tell you is that there is only one revealed religion

Is there a religion that was NOT revealed? Certainly Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and Mormonism are 'revealed'. Others were likely lost through time.

and it's account of creation is remarkably accurate for something that is 6,000 years old. But putting that aside there's a great deal of wisdom you are missing from not studying any of the major religions in earnest detail. I wouldn't be the reasoner I am today without taking that journey. It's much easier to dismiss it all then it is to search for the truth and wisdom in ancient texts. As that is no easy task.

I've read the entire Bible and the NT. I've also read numerous scholarly works on each. I don't claim to be an expert but I seem to know more about the NT than some of my Christian friends.

 

[BreezeWood]

But there was never a person who lived, I'm sure, that has not called out to God

Jesus never did.

Didn't he? Did he not cry out, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?" He was fully human at that time.

obviously, not an initial conversation ....

 

[Foxfyre]

It made sense to me when I learned about it. He was being heckled. He referred them to Psalm 22 which was a poignant response. And the heckling stopped. That's what the account shows.

Again maybe so but I don't read it that way. And I wasn't there.

 

[alang1216]

We are born with an innate sense of morality. It's part of the human condition.

Except for love of family, what other morality is innate?

 

[ding]

Of course that means he is not an atheist. Actually, I agree. You can only know God if you start out with faith.


Is there a religion that was NOT revealed? Certainly Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, and Mormonism are 'revealed'. Others were likely lost through time.


I've read the entire Bible and the NT. I've also read numerous scholarly works on each. I don't claim to be an expert but I seem to know more about the NT than some of my Christian friends.

That's not exactly correct. You can only know who God is after you discover God.

Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism and even Judaism to some extent aren't revealed religions. Revealed religions are God seeking man. The others are man seeking God. Which is not to say there's no value in that as much can be learned from man seeking God.

Great then can you tell me what the point of the account of Christ in the storm is?

 

[ding]

Except for love of family, what other morality is innate?

Right and wrong. Maybe you should do some research on why it is believed that we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong.

 

[alang1216]

It's not my job to convince you. Feel free to believe the universe popping into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence is just a happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do.

That is the claim I don't agree with. Is the universe hardwired to produce the platypus?

But I don't see how that can progress you more than believing you are more than just matter and that everything has a purpose.

You lost me there.

But the interesting thing about matter and energy doing what matter and energy do is that it had to have rules in place before it existed.

There are physical laws that existed before a crystal is created that govern its creation. Likely they have always existed and always will.

 

[ding]

That is the claim I don't agree with. Is the universe hardwired to produce the platypus?

You lost me there.

There are physical laws that existed before a crystal is created that govern its creation. Likely they have always existed and always will.

Now you are being silly. Logically you can't always know what something is by what it is at the beginning. You can only know what something is when it has been completed. By that logic the universe is an intelligence creating machine. This is a life‑breeding, intelligence creating universe because the constant presence of mind made it so.

Your worldview is not conducive to you becoming the best version of yourself... for a number of reasons. Hopefully that will help make you less lost.

Yes, that's my point. And what are those laws or rules exactly? Mind stuff. They don't exist as physical entities. Yet they existed before space and time. Which just so happens to be a requirement to be eternal; it can't be physical; it can only be incorporeal. Which also happens to be the only solution to the first cause conundrum.

 

[alang1216]

That's not exactly correct. You can only know who God is after you discover God.

And you can only discover God through faith and that means you can't be an atheist starting out. A true atheist would want evidence of God BEFORE accepting Him and since there is no such evidence, it is a bridge too far.

Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism and even Judaism to some extent aren't revealed religions. Revealed religions are God seeking man. The others are man seeking God. Which is not to say there's no value in that as much can be learned from man seeking God.

Interesting definition of 'revealed'. To me it is God is offering knowledge to man, regardless of which initiated the conversation. I don't recall Mohammad seeking God, I thought it was the other way round.

Great then can you tell me what the point of the account of Christ in the storm is?

Christ calms our waters would be one. I consider that theology as in take a cup of Jesus and you'll feel better.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I was just having this conversation with my fiancee. A long time ago I couldn't make up my mind on what I actually believed since there are so many beliefs out there, but that's the problem. I was thinking with my mind instead of my heart and the mind can deceive you and has caused me to doubt in the past, but my heart has never faltered.

The fact you feel the need to post the topic says you’re a liar who’s desperate to know God.

 

[alang1216]

Now you are being silly. Logically you can't always know what something is by what it is at the beginning. You can only know what something when it has been completed. By that logic the universe is an intelligence creating machine. This is a life‑breeding, intelligence creating universe because the constant presence of mind made it so.

The universe has created many things, it is you who ascribe something special to intelligence or self-awareness. The solar system existed for billions of years and was doing just fine without us.

Are we the crown of creation? It has nowhere to go from here?

Your worldview is not conducive to you becoming the best version of yourself... for a number of reasons. Hopefully that will help make you less lost.

You are welcome to your opinion, and I'm free to reject it.

Yes, that's my point. And what are those laws or rules exactly? Mind stuff. They don't exist as physical entities. Yet they existed before space and time. Which just so happens to be a requirement to be eternal; it can't be physical; it can only be incorporeal. Which also happens to be the only solution to the first cause conundrum.

The answer is, we don't know. Plain and simple. You are free to speculate but that is all you are doing.

 

[Road Runner]

The fact you feel the need to post the topic says you’re a liar who’s desperate to know God.

A liar on what? Yes I would like to get to know God more, but I was just simply making a point.

 

[ding]

And you can only discover God through faith and that means you can't be an atheist starting out. A true atheist would want evidence of God BEFORE accepting Him and since there is no such evidence, it is a bridge too far.


Interesting definition of 'revealed'. To me it is God is offering knowledge to man, regardless of which initiated the conversation. I don't recall Mohammad seeking God, I thought it was the other way round.


Christ calms our waters would be one. I consider that theology as in take a cup of Jesus and you'll feel better.

I disagree. I didn't start with faith. I started with logic and objectivity. The faith came later. You speak of evidence but what evidence are you expecting to find? The only evidence is indirect evidence. And you have rejected every single piece of indirect evidence. So it's a fair question to ask of you... what evidence are you looking for exactly? Because I don't believe you are genuine in that. You don't even have a reasonable perception of God, so I am wondering how in the hell you can say honestly that you have made a reasonable effort.

It's not my definition. I got it from Huston Smith which I am sure he would classify all Abrahamic religions as revealed religion but I waffle on that from time to time.

Nope. That's not it at all. In fact, that is a rather poor attempt at answering it and shows just how much contempt you have for wisdom and knowledge that you can't help but keep your feelings from clouding your objectivity.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A liar on what? Yes I would like to get to know God more, but I was just simply making a point.

You don’t have doubts.
You know.

Now go read John 3 and James 2.
Then you’ll understand completely what you believe in.

 

[ding]

The universe has created many things, it is you who ascribe something special to intelligence or self-awareness. The solar system existed for billions of years and was doing just fine without us.

Are we the crown of creation? It has nowhere to go from here?


You are welcome to your opinion, and I'm free to reject it.


The answer is, we don't know. Plain and simple. You are free to speculate but that is all you are doing.

Your contempt is showing, bro. It's not a good look. Be better.

 

[alang1216]

You are arguing degrees not that hierarchy isn't necessary. You are not going to get an argument from me that societies that need more and more laws are not as harmonious as societies that need less laws. If men were angels there would be no need for any hierarchy. But alas we are not.

No we are not. Someday we may build an AI-based hierarchy that will do what we can't.

 

[ding]

No we are not. Someday we may build an AI-based hierarchy that will do what we can't.

So now you believe in the evolution of consciousness?

 

[Weatherman2020]

The universe has created many things, it is you who ascribe something special to intelligence or self-awareness. The solar system existed for billions of years and was doing just fine without us.

Are we the crown of creation? It has nowhere to go from here?


You are welcome to your opinion, and I'm free to reject it.


The answer is, we don't know. Plain and simple. You are free to speculate but that is all you are doing.

How exactly does the periodic table create anything?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Not "horrified but it's sad to watch you kids wasting your lives working to please some imaginary sky being in the hopes of being included in his mythical "afterlife". There are so many better ways to spend your time.

But who’s to say they’re wasting their lives? Many people find deep fulfillment in worshiping. Many believe their lives are better for it and many believe their lives have changed for the better because of it.

If it makes you happy, then what’s wrong with it?