Zone1 No Wonder Why I Had Doubts In God's Existence Before

[Harpy Eagle]

No, that is not what I am saying.

It is what you are saying.

 

[Meriweather]

The implication that one needs a god to be happy is even weirder than the idea one needs god to be a good person.

I am not implying anything. You are inferring, and what you are inferring is far from what I am saying to the other poster.

 

[Meriweather]

The people. They were fake and did not care about anyone but themselves. When we left the church 95% of our social circle was tied to the church, it was not easy to walk away from. What made it even worse is out of the 30 or so people that we considered good friends and spent much time with, only 1 stayed that way after we left that church. The rest treated us as if we had just shot their dog while burning down their house. That is what cemented for us it was the right decision.

Was this a small church/denomination or did you live in a small town? It's hard picturing people treating their friends like that. I am so sorry.

 

[Meriweather]

It is what you are saying.

I am guessing it is what you think I am saying/meaning. You may be having a conversation with yourself?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Was this a small church/denomination or did you live in a small town? It's hard picturing people treating their friends like that. I am so sorry.

It was a Southern Baptist church of about 350 people. We left due to a disagreement with the actions of the pastor and people pretty much decided that we were in the wrong to leave and as such no longer associated with us. I will also point out most of them, as was the case with us at the time, have very little do to socially with anyone that is not a member of the church.

 

[ding]

It is amazing how many people can be so wrong. Christians believe Jesus is the truth, Muslims believe Mohammad is the truth. One way or the other, a billion people are flat out wrong.

It would be odd if everyone had the exact same perception of an transcendent being outside of space and time.

 

[ding]

If you want to call the creation of the universe an act by an intelligence/God, I don't say you're wrong, I just don't know. I'm agnostic on that. If you want to say the God of the Bible exists, that is another matter, and I have overwhelming evidence it is a myth. I'm an atheist on that.

I don't think an atheist can skip steps in figuring out who God is unless he first believes there is a God in the first place. All I can tell you is that there is only one revealed religion and it's account of creation is remarkably accurate for something that is 6,000 years old. But putting that aside there's a great deal of wisdom you are missing from not studying any of the major religions in earnest detail. I wouldn't be the reasoner I am today without taking that journey. It's much easier to dismiss it all then it is to search for the truth and wisdom in ancient texts. As that is no easy task.

 

[ding]

If you believe Paul.

I didn't need Paul to believe it. I can sense it inside of my being.

 

[ding]

How does our conscience come to be? Our parents, our religion, TV?

We are born with an innate sense of morality. It's part of the human condition. From there it will either be enhanced or eroded by our experiences and choices and ability to see ourselves and others as we really are and not how we want them to be.

But the good news is that we can transform ourselves for the better at anytime. Of course the bad news is that we can go the other way as well.

 

[Foxfyre]

I was just having this conversation with my fiancee. A long time ago I couldn't make up my mind on what I actually believed since there are so many beliefs out there, but that's the problem. I was thinking with my mind instead of my heart and the mind can deceive you and has caused me to doubt in the past, but my heart has never faltered.

Yes, when we take the reins from God we can talk ourselves into a lot of stuff that just isn't true or isn't smart/wise or isn't profitable in any way to anybody. And probably none of us are capable of perfect union with God's will. But if we give Him a chance to reassure us on His terms and in His time and in His way, we know He's there.

But there was never a person who lived, I'm sure, that has not called out to God, "I believe. Help me in my unbelief." I don't know if doubts creeping in are a natural state of 'sinful' humankind or if they are from Satan. But the prayer helps. God comes through. Again and again because we invariably need that prayer more than once.

 

[ding]

I don't agree that religion is a tool, it is much more. For some it is a refuge, for others it is an addiction, for others it is a business, for others a social structure. Way more than a simple tool.

Knowledge is a tool. So is religion. And you could say the exact same things about any other tool.

 

[ding]

You've said that before but I have yet to be convinced.

It's not my job to convince you. Feel free to believe the universe popping into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence is just a happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do. But I don't see how that can progress you more than believing you are more than just matter and that everything has a purpose.

But the interesting thing about matter and energy doing what matter and energy do is that it had to have rules in place before it existed.

 

[Road Runner]

But there was never a person who lived, I'm sure, that has not called out to God, "I believe. Help me in my unbelief."

Jesus never did.

 

[ding]

There have been societies that were much less hierarchical that ours. Some Native Americans for example. Their technology was primitive but their society was not.

You are arguing degrees not that hierarchy isn't necessary. You are not going to get an argument from me that societies that need more and more laws are not as harmonious as societies that need less laws. If men were angels there would be no need for any hierarchy. But alas we are not.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jesus never did.

Didn't he? Did he not cry out, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?" He was fully human at that time. But if he who was God with us could be tempted even though he did not give into temptation, could doubt when enduring unbearable pain, it should be reassurance to us that it isn't fatal to be tempted or to doubt. It is part of the human condition.

 

[Road Runner]

Didn't he? Did he not cry out, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?"

I guess that counts as doubt as I was thinking more along the lines of Jesus doubting God's existence as He was and is God in the flesh so of course He would know for a fact that God exists.

 

[alang1216]

It would be odd if everyone had the exact same perception of an transcendent being outside of space and time.

Does he want to be known or not?

 

[ding]

Does he want to be known or not?

That's a good question. I think yes but but only if we seek him for the right reasons and the right way. In other words, it's conditional. I doubt he concerns himself with religion as much as you do.

Another way to look at this is using our experiences as creators as a proxy. But regardless of which direction we come from I wouldn't place it above God's purpose for creating existence unless of course that is his purpose which again would seem to be conditional.

 

[ding]

Didn't he? Did he not cry out, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?" He was fully human at that time. But if he who was God with us could be tempted even though he did not give into temptation, could doubt when enduring unbearable pain, it should be reassurance to us that it isn't fatal to be tempted or to doubt. It is part of the human condition.

That was actually a response to the Jews who were mocking him at the time he said it. He was quoting Psalm 22. And it worked too because they understood what he was saying and they disbanded after he said it.

Psalm 22: 1-31

 

[Foxfyre]

That was actually a response to the Jews who were mocking him at the time he said it. He was quoting Psalm 22. And it worked too because they understood what he was saying and they disbanded after he said it.

Psalm 22: 1-31

Maybe so. I wasn't there. But I have always taken it as the ultimate sacrifice as if the physical torture wasn't enough there was mental anguish too.