Nobody doubts the M4 is an assault weapon. Are there any material differences between an M4 and an AR15?

[BULLDOG]

A large majority of Americans want universal background checks,

.

Yeah, and?

The ATF is currently approving upwards of 3 million Background Checks for new firearms purchases a month ...
And has been for quite some time ... They know what we have.

There are more firearms than people in the United States at this point.
It seems as though a lot of armed American Citizens also want to exercise their Constitutionally Protected Rights.

.​

Yes, lots of new guns are being sold. Lots of used guns being sold too. No obligation for a used seller to even care if the purchaser is a felon, or otherwise not legal to even be near a gun. You got the money, you get the gun. Don't tell me bad guys only steal guns or have a straw buyer. No need to steal or have a straw buyer, when they can buy them themselves.

Bad guys use straw buyers.....they do not use private sellers because they are afraid they are ATF, or the police.....if you did some basic research you would know this.....they use friends and family with clean records to buy the guns.....prosecutors don't want to prosecute baby momma's and grandmothers, the typical gang straw buyer because juries don't like to convict these women because they often claim the gang threatens them if they don't buy the guns.....

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive.


In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review


Convicted Murderers Admit: Gun Laws Are a Joke

To gain insight into why and how, one local news station decided to go right to the source of the problem.

To get our data, we sent surveys to every killer who used a gun to murder someone in Harris County since 2014. We wanted to know how they got their gun, what they paid, and how often, if ever, they went through a background check.

The information from the inmates tells a story most of us already know:

• 90 percent of those surveyed received their gun on the black market. They either traded goods for the firearm or a friend gave them the gun.
• 63 percent of the guns were stolen and the majority of them were given to the perpetrator for free.
• 90 percent of the surveyors weren’t eligible to legally buy a gun because of past criminal convictions.
• 100 percent of the surveyors concealed carry despite failing to have a CCW permit.

In Texas, a felon in possession of a firearm can serve 2 to 1- years in prison.
But in Harris County, the average jail sentence for the offense is 3-and-a-half months.

It should be no surprise that criminals are buying guns on the unregulated market.

But when asked, the convicted killers abc13 interviewed were all well aware of the gun laws.

Many were previously convicted and knew they wouldn’t pass federally mandated background checks.

Others suggested they would never put a family member in a position to buy a gun for them since the penalty for that so-called ‘straw purchase’ is severe.

Despite gun control laws that focus on expanded background checks and banning “assault weapons,” the survey results prove neither one of would have prevented these murderers from committing their crime.

When asked what can be done to keep guns off the streets, each criminal had different views.

“I feel guns is not the problem. People just need to respect each other, and stop been [sic] disrespectfully [sic]. Youngster in the hood need to listen when older people tellin them something. Guns WILL always be in the streets of H-town! Sorry to say that

,” said 44-year-old Cedric Jones.

I will be happy to read your entire remark as soon as you post something other than your handful of memorized bumper sticker statements and your massive store of cut and paste crap.

Chickenshit.

That's exactly what I consider the reams of the same cut and past propaganda the previous poster constantly supplies to be. Chickenshit.
He hasn't posted anything original since his 2nd day here.

Another little bitch-fit that people are allowed to disagree with you.

Too bad.

Disagree all you want. Don't expect me to read pages of the same shit you posted yesterday, the day before that, and the day before that.

 

[BULLDOG]

This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.

It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.

Lots of people doubt its an assault rifle so the entire thread is pointless.

There are always people who live in their own little world, but if disagree with our military's definition, you're pretty much an idiot.

The military definition of a weapon is irrelevant. The military did not write the 2nd amendment nor do they enforce it.

Tard

I wasn't aware that the 2nd defined assault rifle.

it covers all weapons,,

heres another dumbass,,

Make up your mind. The 2nd didn't define what an assault rifle is. I would ask you to prove otherwise, but you're already grabbing at straws trying to find something that might sound like "an ar15 is a weapon of war"

The supreme court did not rule the weapon had tto be a weapon of war just "of use" to the military

Ok. And?

 

[daveman]

QUOTE="BULLDOG, post: 27101429, member: 49372"]
The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

I dont dispute what you say. The weaponry should be exclusive for the military and never allowed for the public use. There is no valid reason for other than an ego builder and a power play by testosterone filled Rambos.
There are so many slaughtered by these that that itself should be prove they should be banned. But no, that 250 year old 2nd amendment says we have a right.
So let the mass murders continue. When it reaches your children or close family, get back to me.

more people are killed every single year by knives, by clubs, and by bare hands than by all rifle types let alone just the AR-15 rifle.....

More people die each year falling off ladders than are killed by mass public shooters in general and by mass public shooters with rifles...

What are you talking about?

The AR-15 is not a military weapon....do you understand that?

There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.

I don't care about your typical gun nuts justifications. There is no reason why those weapons are needed in private ownership. The same for the other weapons of mass slaughter.

I've never seen innocent kids been killed by a pump action ladder or a fully automatic knife.

The Quran problem is and will remain so, the gun culture and the pathetic insecure mental state of those proponents is the problem. There is no need for thise weapons other than penile extensions and ego boosters by a bunch of immature cowboys posing as protectors of freedom. What rubbish.
You're as dumb as a stump.

And your opinion doesn't mean shit. Until the COTUS is repealed (after LOTS of bloodshed) your opinion doesn't affect the gun owning community at all.

If course it means nothing to an intellectual cripple like you but that doesn't mean it isn't fact. Look at your reply. Exactly the dismissals and stupidity I spoke of. Youll say and do anything to protect your ego.
Every time there is talk of gun restriction, you all go out and buy more if that will alter the conversation. Then you complain to the government you can't get ammo. Duuuuh. Talk about dumb.
You take the new weapons home, kill a deer or something then put it away with the other 6 or 9 guns. That stopped those pesky democrats.
Then the cycle is repeated again.
The slaughters continue and you believe it's collateral damage for the price of freedom.

I don't care if you've got six of those slaughter machines. My point is you have no need for them.
[/QUOTE]
Nobody asked your permission. Nobody needs your permission.

 

[daveman]

No con job. Those other sources are already there. If your boat is sinking, you stop up every hole you can, even if you can't get all of them.

.

If you happen to live in the South, go to a large gun dealer (Bass Pro, Academy or whatever) the day a truck delivers new firearms and ammunition.
Stay for a little while and observe who is buying what, and how much of it.

I don't want to tell you what to look for, because it will twist your head up, and you will want to fight with me about bullshit.

If you don't have that opportunity, sorry, I am not going to explain it to you.
But if you do have the opportunity, don't try to fight what is evident if you pay attention.

It's not rocket science, and you are smart enough to pick up on it.

.​

And every buyer there has a background check. Not the same thing as a individual seller, is it?

Individuals sell their private property, and the only way to keep track would be to mandate a gun registry.......which what you actually want, because you don't care about actually stopping criminals.

You want the gun registry because you know that throughout history, past and current, gun registration is needed to keep law abiding gun owners from hiding their guns.

Just shut your pie hole. We do background checks for new guns without a registry, and we can do the same for used guns. As much as you whine about a gun registry, I'm beginning to think it wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

Why do you think you're fooling? You want a registry, and you want guns confiscated.

 

[daveman]

A large majority of Americans want universal background checks,

.

Yeah, and?

The ATF is currently approving upwards of 3 million Background Checks for new firearms purchases a month ...
And has been for quite some time ... They know what we have.

There are more firearms than people in the United States at this point.
It seems as though a lot of armed American Citizens also want to exercise their Constitutionally Protected Rights.

.​

Yes, lots of new guns are being sold. Lots of used guns being sold too. No obligation for a used seller to even care if the purchaser is a felon, or otherwise not legal to even be near a gun. You got the money, you get the gun. Don't tell me bad guys only steal guns or have a straw buyer. No need to steal or have a straw buyer, when they can buy them themselves.

Everything you say is nothing but fear-mongering.

The problem is you're trying to make afraid people who think rationally and know you're full of shit.

You may be cementing the fear-based views of your fellow irrational gun-haters, but you're not going to convince normal people of anything.

Would you point out which part of that post you think is untrue?

The part where you imply criminals will start obeying the law if we pass JUST ONE MORE.

Hint: They won't.

So other than the law, what is stopping more people from having fully automatic weapons?

They're expensive, you retard.

 

[daveman]

A large majority of Americans want universal background checks,

.

Yeah, and?

The ATF is currently approving upwards of 3 million Background Checks for new firearms purchases a month ...
And has been for quite some time ... They know what we have.

There are more firearms than people in the United States at this point.
It seems as though a lot of armed American Citizens also want to exercise their Constitutionally Protected Rights.

.​

Yes, lots of new guns are being sold. Lots of used guns being sold too. No obligation for a used seller to even care if the purchaser is a felon, or otherwise not legal to even be near a gun. You got the money, you get the gun. Don't tell me bad guys only steal guns or have a straw buyer. No need to steal or have a straw buyer, when they can buy them themselves.

Bad guys use straw buyers.....they do not use private sellers because they are afraid they are ATF, or the police.....if you did some basic research you would know this.....they use friends and family with clean records to buy the guns.....prosecutors don't want to prosecute baby momma's and grandmothers, the typical gang straw buyer because juries don't like to convict these women because they often claim the gang threatens them if they don't buy the guns.....

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive.


In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review


Convicted Murderers Admit: Gun Laws Are a Joke

To gain insight into why and how, one local news station decided to go right to the source of the problem.

To get our data, we sent surveys to every killer who used a gun to murder someone in Harris County since 2014. We wanted to know how they got their gun, what they paid, and how often, if ever, they went through a background check.

The information from the inmates tells a story most of us already know:

• 90 percent of those surveyed received their gun on the black market. They either traded goods for the firearm or a friend gave them the gun.
• 63 percent of the guns were stolen and the majority of them were given to the perpetrator for free.
• 90 percent of the surveyors weren’t eligible to legally buy a gun because of past criminal convictions.
• 100 percent of the surveyors concealed carry despite failing to have a CCW permit.

In Texas, a felon in possession of a firearm can serve 2 to 1- years in prison.
But in Harris County, the average jail sentence for the offense is 3-and-a-half months.

It should be no surprise that criminals are buying guns on the unregulated market.

But when asked, the convicted killers abc13 interviewed were all well aware of the gun laws.

Many were previously convicted and knew they wouldn’t pass federally mandated background checks.

Others suggested they would never put a family member in a position to buy a gun for them since the penalty for that so-called ‘straw purchase’ is severe.

Despite gun control laws that focus on expanded background checks and banning “assault weapons,” the survey results prove neither one of would have prevented these murderers from committing their crime.

When asked what can be done to keep guns off the streets, each criminal had different views.

“I feel guns is not the problem. People just need to respect each other, and stop been [sic] disrespectfully [sic]. Youngster in the hood need to listen when older people tellin them something. Guns WILL always be in the streets of H-town! Sorry to say that

,” said 44-year-old Cedric Jones.

I will be happy to read your entire remark as soon as you post something other than your handful of memorized bumper sticker statements and your massive store of cut and paste crap.

Chickenshit.

That's exactly what I consider the reams of the same cut and past propaganda the previous poster constantly supplies to be. Chickenshit.
He hasn't posted anything original since his 2nd day here.

Another little bitch-fit that people are allowed to disagree with you.

Too bad.

Disagree all you want. Don't expect me to read pages of the same shit you posted yesterday, the day before that, and the day before that.

Yeah, no point. It's not like you'd give any consideration to other points of view.

 

[TeeDub]

"assault weapon" isn't a valid description of anything. M4 isn't an "assault weapon" either.

Any weapon can be used in an assault. So I guess they are all "assault weapons" from a bb gun to a machine gun.

Whether assault rifles exist is a really dumb discussion. Our military has a definition of Assault Rifle, and the M4 certainly meets that definition. I'm asking how the M4 differs from an ar15, other than being full auto capable. I've already shown that the AR15 can be easily converted to full auto in #5.

So how many people have been killed by a fully auto AR15? ZERO. If you had a AR15 shooting in "fully auto mode" it's barrel would melt.

 

[daveman]

"assault weapon" isn't a valid description of anything. M4 isn't an "assault weapon" either.

Any weapon can be used in an assault. So I guess they are all "assault weapons" from a bb gun to a machine gun.

Whether assault rifles exist is a really dumb discussion. Our military has a definition of Assault Rifle, and the M4 certainly meets that definition. I'm asking how the M4 differs from an ar15, other than being full auto capable. I've already shown that the AR15 can be easily converted to full auto in #5.

So how many people have been killed by a fully auto AR15? ZERO. If you had a AR15 shooting in "fully auto mode" it's barrel would melt.

BUT THEY MIGHT SOMEDAY BE KILLED ITS EASY TO CONVERT IVE SAID SO SEVERAL TIMES SO ITS TRUE AND THATS WHY ARS SHOULD BE BANNED THEIR SOOOOOO DANGEROUS

-- Bulldog

 

[westwall]

QUOTE="BULLDOG, post: 27101429, member: 49372"]
The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

I dont dispute what you say. The weaponry should be exclusive for the military and never allowed for the public use. There is no valid reason for other than an ego builder and a power play by testosterone filled Rambos.
There are so many slaughtered by these that that itself should be prove they should be banned. But no, that 250 year old 2nd amendment says we have a right.
So let the mass murders continue. When it reaches your children or close family, get back to me.

more people are killed every single year by knives, by clubs, and by bare hands than by all rifle types let alone just the AR-15 rifle.....

More people die each year falling off ladders than are killed by mass public shooters in general and by mass public shooters with rifles...

What are you talking about?

The AR-15 is not a military weapon....do you understand that?

There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.

I don't care about your typical gun nuts justifications. There is no reason why those weapons are needed in private ownership. The same for the other weapons of mass slaughter.

I've never seen innocent kids been killed by a pump action ladder or a fully automatic knife.

The Quran problem is and will remain so, the gun culture and the pathetic insecure mental state of those proponents is the problem. There is no need for thise weapons other than penile extensions and ego boosters by a bunch of immature cowboys posing as protectors of freedom. What rubbish.
You're as dumb as a stump.

And your opinion doesn't mean shit. Until the COTUS is repealed (after LOTS of bloodshed) your opinion doesn't affect the gun owning community at all.

Many in the gun owning community do want some weapons banned. The numbers fluctuate some, but basically, much more than half of the country wants limits. No reason why Constitutional laws cant be fashioned to limit the sale of guns. I don't advocate out right banning, but if something isn't done to reduce the sales of guns to known criminals, a ban might be in our future.

Two-thirds of Americans support assault weapons ban: Fox News poll
[/QUOTE]






No, they don't. Those are fake polls promulgated by propagandists. The AR-15 is single most popular rifle type in the country.

That is a fact.

 

[9thIDdoc]

If there were a way to stop all sales to known criminals (and background checks cannot do that) it wouldn't be that much of a problem for criminals. Guns are highly durable. I have killed deer with rifles that may have been involved in the Spanish-American war or WWI or II and may still be in fine shape decades from now. What makes anyone think that criminals need to buy more guns? Most have had ample opportunity to store more than they could reasonably use in several lifetimes. Those that haven't had that kind of foresight could simply steal them from legal gun owners including police and military (who have real assault rifles or whatever else they might want) or other criminals. And if the government becomes criminal what's going to stop it from buying guns? And of course not all criminals are known criminals. And of course that excludes those who seem to suddenly become stark raving crazy and are probably by far the biggest percentage of mass murderers. Some folks just seem determined to continue to beat a dead horse.

 

[BULLDOG]

No con job. Those other sources are already there. If your boat is sinking, you stop up every hole you can, even if you can't get all of them.

.

If you happen to live in the South, go to a large gun dealer (Bass Pro, Academy or whatever) the day a truck delivers new firearms and ammunition.
Stay for a little while and observe who is buying what, and how much of it.

I don't want to tell you what to look for, because it will twist your head up, and you will want to fight with me about bullshit.

If you don't have that opportunity, sorry, I am not going to explain it to you.
But if you do have the opportunity, don't try to fight what is evident if you pay attention.

It's not rocket science, and you are smart enough to pick up on it.

.​

And every buyer there has a background check. Not the same thing as a individual seller, is it?

Individuals sell their private property, and the only way to keep track would be to mandate a gun registry.......which what you actually want, because you don't care about actually stopping criminals.

You want the gun registry because you know that throughout history, past and current, gun registration is needed to keep law abiding gun owners from hiding their guns.

Just shut your pie hole. We do background checks for new guns without a registry, and we can do the same for used guns. As much as you whine about a gun registry, I'm beginning to think it wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

Why do you think you're fooling? You want a registry, and you want guns confiscated.

You can believe anything you want to believe, no matter how goofy and wrong it might be.

 

[BULLDOG]

A large majority of Americans want universal background checks,

.

Yeah, and?

The ATF is currently approving upwards of 3 million Background Checks for new firearms purchases a month ...
And has been for quite some time ... They know what we have.

There are more firearms than people in the United States at this point.
It seems as though a lot of armed American Citizens also want to exercise their Constitutionally Protected Rights.

.​

Yes, lots of new guns are being sold. Lots of used guns being sold too. No obligation for a used seller to even care if the purchaser is a felon, or otherwise not legal to even be near a gun. You got the money, you get the gun. Don't tell me bad guys only steal guns or have a straw buyer. No need to steal or have a straw buyer, when they can buy them themselves.

Everything you say is nothing but fear-mongering.

The problem is you're trying to make afraid people who think rationally and know you're full of shit.

You may be cementing the fear-based views of your fellow irrational gun-haters, but you're not going to convince normal people of anything.

Would you point out which part of that post you think is untrue?

The part where you imply criminals will start obeying the law if we pass JUST ONE MORE.

Hint: They won't.

So other than the law, what is stopping more people from having fully automatic weapons?

They're expensive, you retard.

You can convert an AR for about $100.

 

[BULLDOG]

A large majority of Americans want universal background checks,

.

Yeah, and?

The ATF is currently approving upwards of 3 million Background Checks for new firearms purchases a month ...
And has been for quite some time ... They know what we have.

There are more firearms than people in the United States at this point.
It seems as though a lot of armed American Citizens also want to exercise their Constitutionally Protected Rights.

.​

Yes, lots of new guns are being sold. Lots of used guns being sold too. No obligation for a used seller to even care if the purchaser is a felon, or otherwise not legal to even be near a gun. You got the money, you get the gun. Don't tell me bad guys only steal guns or have a straw buyer. No need to steal or have a straw buyer, when they can buy them themselves.

Bad guys use straw buyers.....they do not use private sellers because they are afraid they are ATF, or the police.....if you did some basic research you would know this.....they use friends and family with clean records to buy the guns.....prosecutors don't want to prosecute baby momma's and grandmothers, the typical gang straw buyer because juries don't like to convict these women because they often claim the gang threatens them if they don't buy the guns.....

America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review

Wisconsin isn’t alone in its nonchalance. California normally treats straw purchases as misdemeanors or minor infractions. Even as the people of Baltimore suffer horrific levels of violence, Maryland classifies the crime as a misdemeanor, too. Straw buying is a felony in progressive Connecticut, albeit one in the second-least-serious order of felonies. It is classified as a serious crime in Illinois (Class 2 felony), but police rarely (meaning “almost never”) go after the nephews and girlfriends with clean records who provide Chicago’s diverse and sundry gangsters with their weapons. In Delaware, it’s a Class F felony, like forging a check. In Oregon, it’s a misdemeanor.

--------

I visited Chicago a few years back to write about the city’s gang-driven murder problem, and a retired police official told me that the nature of the people making straw purchases — young relatives, girlfriends who may or may not have been facing the threat of physical violence, grandmothers, etc. — made prosecuting those cases unattractive.


In most of those cases, the authorities emphatically should put the straw purchasers in prison for as long as possible. Throw a few gangsters’ grandmothers behind bars for 20 years and see if that gets anybody’s attention. In the case of the young women suborned into breaking the law, that should be just another charge to put on the main offender.

Read more at: America Should Be Prosecuting Straw Purchasers, Not Gun Dealers | National Review


Convicted Murderers Admit: Gun Laws Are a Joke

To gain insight into why and how, one local news station decided to go right to the source of the problem.

To get our data, we sent surveys to every killer who used a gun to murder someone in Harris County since 2014. We wanted to know how they got their gun, what they paid, and how often, if ever, they went through a background check.

The information from the inmates tells a story most of us already know:

• 90 percent of those surveyed received their gun on the black market. They either traded goods for the firearm or a friend gave them the gun.
• 63 percent of the guns were stolen and the majority of them were given to the perpetrator for free.
• 90 percent of the surveyors weren’t eligible to legally buy a gun because of past criminal convictions.
• 100 percent of the surveyors concealed carry despite failing to have a CCW permit.

In Texas, a felon in possession of a firearm can serve 2 to 1- years in prison.
But in Harris County, the average jail sentence for the offense is 3-and-a-half months.

It should be no surprise that criminals are buying guns on the unregulated market.

But when asked, the convicted killers abc13 interviewed were all well aware of the gun laws.

Many were previously convicted and knew they wouldn’t pass federally mandated background checks.

Others suggested they would never put a family member in a position to buy a gun for them since the penalty for that so-called ‘straw purchase’ is severe.

Despite gun control laws that focus on expanded background checks and banning “assault weapons,” the survey results prove neither one of would have prevented these murderers from committing their crime.

When asked what can be done to keep guns off the streets, each criminal had different views.

“I feel guns is not the problem. People just need to respect each other, and stop been [sic] disrespectfully [sic]. Youngster in the hood need to listen when older people tellin them something. Guns WILL always be in the streets of H-town! Sorry to say that

,” said 44-year-old Cedric Jones.

I will be happy to read your entire remark as soon as you post something other than your handful of memorized bumper sticker statements and your massive store of cut and paste crap.

Chickenshit.

That's exactly what I consider the reams of the same cut and past propaganda the previous poster constantly supplies to be. Chickenshit.
He hasn't posted anything original since his 2nd day here.

Another little bitch-fit that people are allowed to disagree with you.

Too bad.

Disagree all you want. Don't expect me to read pages of the same shit you posted yesterday, the day before that, and the day before that.

Yeah, no point. It's not like you'd give any consideration to other points of view.

But I have read all that crap, and did consider it. multiple times. If that's all he's got, repetition won't make it any more true.

 

[BULLDOG]

"assault weapon" isn't a valid description of anything. M4 isn't an "assault weapon" either.

Any weapon can be used in an assault. So I guess they are all "assault weapons" from a bb gun to a machine gun.

Whether assault rifles exist is a really dumb discussion. Our military has a definition of Assault Rifle, and the M4 certainly meets that definition. I'm asking how the M4 differs from an ar15, other than being full auto capable. I've already shown that the AR15 can be easily converted to full auto in #5.

So how many people have been killed by a fully auto AR15? ZERO. If you had a AR15 shooting in "fully auto mode" it's barrel would melt.

How many people have been killed doesn't effect the ability to convert to fully auto capability. More substantial barrels are easily available.

 

[BULLDOG]

"assault weapon" isn't a valid description of anything. M4 isn't an "assault weapon" either.

Any weapon can be used in an assault. So I guess they are all "assault weapons" from a bb gun to a machine gun.

Whether assault rifles exist is a really dumb discussion. Our military has a definition of Assault Rifle, and the M4 certainly meets that definition. I'm asking how the M4 differs from an ar15, other than being full auto capable. I've already shown that the AR15 can be easily converted to full auto in #5.

So how many people have been killed by a fully auto AR15? ZERO. If you had a AR15 shooting in "fully auto mode" it's barrel would melt.

BUT THEY MIGHT SOMEDAY BE KILLED ITS EASY TO CONVERT IVE SAID SO SEVERAL TIMES SO ITS TRUE AND THATS WHY ARS SHOULD BE BANNED THEIR SOOOOOO DANGEROUS

-- Bulldog

And you haven't said what part of the conversion is expensive or otherwise too hard to do. Keep in mind that every member of the military who was issued a rifle was trained to completely disassemble and reassemble the weapon they were issued. It's not like it involves some darkly held secret.

 

[BULLDOG]

QUOTE="BULLDOG, post: 27101429, member: 49372"]
The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

I dont dispute what you say. The weaponry should be exclusive for the military and never allowed for the public use. There is no valid reason for other than an ego builder and a power play by testosterone filled Rambos.
There are so many slaughtered by these that that itself should be prove they should be banned. But no, that 250 year old 2nd amendment says we have a right.
So let the mass murders continue. When it reaches your children or close family, get back to me.

more people are killed every single year by knives, by clubs, and by bare hands than by all rifle types let alone just the AR-15 rifle.....

More people die each year falling off ladders than are killed by mass public shooters in general and by mass public shooters with rifles...

What are you talking about?

The AR-15 is not a military weapon....do you understand that?

There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.

I don't care about your typical gun nuts justifications. There is no reason why those weapons are needed in private ownership. The same for the other weapons of mass slaughter.

I've never seen innocent kids been killed by a pump action ladder or a fully automatic knife.

The Quran problem is and will remain so, the gun culture and the pathetic insecure mental state of those proponents is the problem. There is no need for thise weapons other than penile extensions and ego boosters by a bunch of immature cowboys posing as protectors of freedom. What rubbish.
You're as dumb as a stump.

And your opinion doesn't mean shit. Until the COTUS is repealed (after LOTS of bloodshed) your opinion doesn't affect the gun owning community at all.

Many in the gun owning community do want some weapons banned. The numbers fluctuate some, but basically, much more than half of the country wants limits. No reason why Constitutional laws cant be fashioned to limit the sale of guns. I don't advocate out right banning, but if something isn't done to reduce the sales of guns to known criminals, a ban might be in our future.

Two-thirds of Americans support assault weapons ban: Fox News poll

No, they don't. Those are fake polls promulgated by propagandists. The AR-15 is single most popular rifle type in the country.

That is a fact.
[/QUOTE]
So fox news is now an anti-gun propagandist? Really?

 

[westwall]

QUOTE="BULLDOG, post: 27101429, member: 49372"]
The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

I dont dispute what you say. The weaponry should be exclusive for the military and never allowed for the public use. There is no valid reason for other than an ego builder and a power play by testosterone filled Rambos.
There are so many slaughtered by these that that itself should be prove they should be banned. But no, that 250 year old 2nd amendment says we have a right.
So let the mass murders continue. When it reaches your children or close family, get back to me.

more people are killed every single year by knives, by clubs, and by bare hands than by all rifle types let alone just the AR-15 rifle.....

More people die each year falling off ladders than are killed by mass public shooters in general and by mass public shooters with rifles...

What are you talking about?

The AR-15 is not a military weapon....do you understand that?

There is only one mass public shooting where the rifle had an advantage in the shooting, and that was Las Vegas, where the range was over 200 yards......but he was also firing into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, from a concealed and fortified position.......with his initial shooting masked by the concert.



And if the crowed wasn't trapped in that concert arena, he wouldn't have been able to kill as many since they would have run away or found cover.....since shooting at moving targets at hundreds of yards is almost impossible for all but expertly trained shooters...



At the range of every other mass public shooting a rifle has no advantage over pistols or shotguns.......



again.....at the range of a mass public shooting the AR-15 is no better than a pump action shotgun....as are 2 handguns......you idiot...



Boulder....used an AR-15 with magazines that held more than 10 bullets.. 10 killed.....



Virginia Tech...2 pistols, one with 10 round magazine..... 32 killed.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 2 pistols?



Boulder...10 killed with an AR-15 rifle and regular magazines ( holding more than 10 bullets)



Luby's Cafe..... 2 pistols....24 killed.



Do you see that the 2 pistols killed more than the AR-15?



Do you know what the difference was between these attacks?



The cops immediately responded and shot at the attacker in boulder, causing him to stop shooting unarmed victims, and then he shot himself....



Virginia Tech and Luby's Cafe, the police didn't get there, and at Luby's Cafe, the one woman who could have shot and killed the attacker had to leave her gun in her car because of stupid gun free zone laws....



Boulder AR-15 with magazines that hold more than 10 bullets...you know, regular magazines..... 10 killed...



Kerch, Russia, Polytechnic school shooting.... 5 shot, pump action shotgun...which means it had 5 shells which is 5 less than 10........20 killed 70 wounded.



Do you see that the AR-15 killed fewer people than the 5 shot, pump action shotgun?



The difference? The Russian police station was 100 yards away from the school...and it still took them 10 minutes to get to the school...and he managed to kill 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun....10 more than the Boulder shooter with a rifle and a regular sized magazine...





So again.......in a mass public shooting the number of bullets in the gun magazine don't mean anything......the gun doesn't make the difference....



What makes the difference?



1) if the target is a gun free zone, more people get killed.



2) if someone starts shooting at the attacker, they commit suicide, or surrender, or runaway....



That is what you don't understand and don't care to understand since you simply have a mental issue when it comes to the AR-15 rifle.

That rifle had no special advantage in a mass public shooting.

I don't care about your typical gun nuts justifications. There is no reason why those weapons are needed in private ownership. The same for the other weapons of mass slaughter.

I've never seen innocent kids been killed by a pump action ladder or a fully automatic knife.

The Quran problem is and will remain so, the gun culture and the pathetic insecure mental state of those proponents is the problem. There is no need for thise weapons other than penile extensions and ego boosters by a bunch of immature cowboys posing as protectors of freedom. What rubbish.
You're as dumb as a stump.

And your opinion doesn't mean shit. Until the COTUS is repealed (after LOTS of bloodshed) your opinion doesn't affect the gun owning community at all.

Many in the gun owning community do want some weapons banned. The numbers fluctuate some, but basically, much more than half of the country wants limits. No reason why Constitutional laws cant be fashioned to limit the sale of guns. I don't advocate out right banning, but if something isn't done to reduce the sales of guns to known criminals, a ban might be in our future.

Two-thirds of Americans support assault weapons ban: Fox News poll

No, they don't. Those are fake polls promulgated by propagandists. The AR-15 is single most popular rifle type in the country.

That is a fact.

So fox news is now an anti-gun propagandist? Really?
[/QUOTE]





Fox is still MSM, so yeah.

 

[BlackSand]

So fox news is now an anti-gun propagandist? Really?

.

Sweetie ... I wouldn't care if Fox News or The New York Times published a poll that said 75% of Americans supported Slavery.

It still wouldn't change what the Thirteenth Amendment says, means or the Rights it Protects.
It wouldn't even matter if you felt like supporting the idea that only Government Approved Outlets could sell Slaves.

.​

 

[JoeMoma]

Well, no, it cannot be "easily" converted-the receiver is different.

Most people could make an auto sear in their garage with a grinder and a vice. It wouldn't be legal, but it could be done pretty easily. However, the question was other than full auto, what are the material differences between the two rifles.

No, most people can't make that easily in their garage with a grinder and a vice.

 

[BULLDOG]

Well, no, it cannot be "easily" converted-the receiver is different.

Most people could make an auto sear in their garage with a grinder and a vice. It wouldn't be legal, but it could be done pretty easily. However, the question was other than full auto, what are the material differences between the two rifles.

No, most people can't make that easily in their garage with a grinder and a vice.

Which part do you think is impossible for the average tinkerer? Of course a simple slide table would make it much easier. The width and the location of the drilled hole are the only 2 critical measurements on it. The rest can be a few thousandths off without a problem.