Nobody needs an AK47 with a 30 round magazine

[Dr Grump]

Okay, again...

What does a background check do to stop gun crime and mass shootings...as reference please review mass shootings at Columbine, Colorado Theater, the two Fort Hood Shootings, the Navy yard shooting, Santa BArbara and Newton...also the 24 most violent cities which are run by democrats... please point to the study that shows the gang bangers in those cities undergo background checks before they commit murder...

dittos, registering guns, and limiting magazine capacity...

Please....please...someone tell me how they do anything you claim you think they do....

it doesn't...in the USA. Because your society is awash with guns. However, you have to start somewhere. Your current system isn't working.

I am just pointing out to rabbi and others that those countries that have less homicides and gun crime have stricter laws. That seems to work fine for them. As I stated, guns are not even a political issue down here. I know it is up there. Different folks with different mindsets.

In saying that, the pro-gun mindset in the US sux....doesn't help anybody, and is a neanderthal mindset IMO. "Oh, the criminals are armed!!" Fuck yeah, because you have such lax guns laws. And around in circles you go...

 

[2aguy]

Define working...every year 250-375,000 crimes are stopped and lives are saved by regular Americans with guns....that is a good thing...

 

[Dr Grump]

OK, good thing. Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

Absolutely untrue. So I'm a mass murderer, get paroled, and I can go and buy a gun?? Think before type.

 

[Dr Grump]

Define working...every year 250-375,000 crimes are stopped and lives are saved by regular Americans with guns....that is a good thing...

link...

 

[boedicca]

Is he left-handed or right-handed?

Clearly, he's ambidextrous!

 

[boedicca]

Yeah, OK they do. Here's a guy proving it.
This guy exercising his 2nd Amendment right to defend his store in Ferguson is AWESOME | SOOPERMEXICAN

"Go ahead make my day!"

Famous quote...
From one of our founding fathers I believe.
Or maybe it's in our Constitution...I forget.

Abraham Lincoln said it when he crossed the Delaware in a speedboat and ran over King George.

 

[2aguy]

this link takes you to a Law Journal article that looks at defensive gun use studies...

Armed Resistance to Crime The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun

Nevertheless, among these imperfect surveys, two were relatively good for present purposes. Both the Hart survey in 1981 and the Mauser survey in 1990 were national surveys which asked carefully worded questions directed at all Rs in their samples. Both surveys excluded uses against animals and occupational uses. The two also nicely complemented each other in that the Hart survey asked only about uses of handguns, while the Mauser survey asked about uses of all gun types. The Hart survey results implied a minimum of about 640,000 annual DGUs involving handguns, while the Mauser results implied about 700,000 involving any type of gun.[37] It should be stressed, contrary to the claims of Reiss and Roth,[38] that neither of these estimates entailed the use of "dubious adjustment procedures." The percent of sample households reporting a DGU was simply multiplied by the total number of U.S. households, resulting in an estimate of DGU-involved households. This figure, compiled for a five year period, was then divided by five to yield a per-year figure.

The information is in the Journal article, you'll have to look for more info...but here is more from the article...

Eleven of the surveys permitted the computation of a reasonable adjusted estimate of DGU frequency. Two surveys for which estimates could not be produced were the Cambridge Reports and the Time/CNN. Neither asked the DGU question of all Rs; thus, it would be sheer speculation what the responses would have been among those Rs not asked the DGU question. All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year. None of the surveys implied estimates even remotely like the 65,000 to 82,000 figures derived from the NCVS. To date, there has been no confirmation of even the most approximate sort of the NCVS estimates. Indeed, no survey has ever yielded an estimate which is of the same magnitude as those derived from the NCVS.

 

[Dr Grump]

Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

And if you read his link you'll see there are restrictions on what firearms you can own and the hoops you have to jump through to get one...

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, good thing. Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

Absolutely untrue. So I'm a mass murderer, get paroled, and I can go and buy a gun?? Think before type.

Yes, actually you can. Although I dont know how many mass murderers there are in Switzerland.

 

[The Rabbi]

Okay, again...

What does a background check do to stop gun crime and mass shootings...as reference please review mass shootings at Columbine, Colorado Theater, the two Fort Hood Shootings, the Navy yard shooting, Santa BArbara and Newton...also the 24 most violent cities which are run by democrats... please point to the study that shows the gang bangers in those cities undergo background checks before they commit murder...

dittos, registering guns, and limiting magazine capacity...

Please....please...someone tell me how they do anything you claim you think they do....

it doesn't...in the USA. Because your society is awash with guns. However, you have to start somewhere. Your current system isn't working.

I am just pointing out to rabbi and others that those countries that have less homicides and gun crime have stricter laws. That seems to work fine for them. As I stated, guns are not even a political issue down here. I know it is up there. Different folks with different mindsets.

In saying that, the pro-gun mindset in the US sux....doesn't help anybody, and is a neanderthal mindset IMO. "Oh, the criminals are armed!!" Fuck yeah, because you have such lax guns laws. And around in circles you go...

Actually the totalitarian nanny staters suck. Nothing wrong with our gun laws except they are too restrisctive. "You have to start somewhere" is the kind of bullshit people throw when they can't explain something cogently.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

And if you read his link you'll see there are restrictions on what firearms you can own and the hoops you have to jump through to get one...

Which in the case of freie Waffen is nothing.
Point made. I'll await your apology.

 

[2aguy]

Here is the Wikipedia article in defensive gun uses...it is of course biased...but I usually show it to point out that even anti gun researchers believe that 100,000 crimes are stopped by regular people armed with guns...

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Besides the NSDS and NCVS surveys, ten national and three state surveys summarized by Kleck and Gertz gave 764 thousand to 3.6 million DGU per year.[3]Hemenway contends the Kleck and Gertz study is unreliable and no conclusions can be drawn from it.[4] He argues that there are too many "false positives" in the surveys, and finds the NCVS figures more reliable, yielding estimates of around 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Applying different adjustments, other social scientists suggest that between 250,000 and 370,000 incidences per year.[9][10]

 

[2aguy]

What the anti gunners say, especially our Australian friends is this...they would rather see someone raped, beaten robbed or murdered rather then have them use a gun to stop it...right...? they still have rapes, beatings, robberies and murder in Australia...Right? they just would rather the rape, robbery, beating, or murder succeed...if the only other choice would be for the victim to use a gun to stop it...right...? that is where their belief meets the real world...right? that is the preferred outcome over the victim using a gun to stop it...right?

 

[Dr Grump]

OK, good thing. Because if you read your own stupid link you'd discover anyone can buy a gun in Switzerland.

Absolutely untrue. So I'm a mass murderer, get paroled, and I can go and buy a gun?? Think before type.

Yes, actually you can. Although I dont know how many mass murderers there are in Switzerland.

Um, no you can't.

 

[Dr Grump]

Which in the case of freie Waffen is nothing.
Point made. I'll await your apology.

Do you actually read shit, or just make it up as you go along. FROM the link (again, I'll even highlight in bold the relevant part)..

"In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Waffenerwerbsschein), in accordance with Article 8 of Act. Swiss citizens over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit."

Now say 'thank you' to me for educating your ignorant arse....

 

[Dr Grump]

What the anti gunners say, especially our Australian friends is this...they would rather see someone raped, beaten robbed or murdered rather then have them use a gun to stop it...right...? they still have rapes, beatings, robberies and murder in Australia...Right? they just would rather the rape, robbery, beating, or murder succeed...if the only other choice would be for the victim to use a gun to stop it...right...? that is where their belief meets the real world...right? that is the preferred outcome over the victim using a gun to stop it...right?

No.

 

[2aguy]

hmmm..just found this. Mass shootings in Switzerland...but...but...that can't happen...they have regulations against that sort of thing...right?


Why Two Mass Shootings Will Not Change Swiss Gun Culture TIME.com

Over the weekend, authorities reported that the suspect in the Menznau shooting, who arrived in Switzerland as an asylum seeker from Kosovo in 1991 and became a naturalized Swiss citizen, used his brother’s gun in the rampage. (The perpetrator, whose name was not released, reportedly suffered from psychological problems, and arms permits cannot be issued to people with a history of mental illness.)

However, unlike the current emotional debate surrounding gun control in the U.S., the Swiss approach is more dispassionate and pragmatic. Given Switzerland’s long history of what the Swiss proudly call “responsible gun ownership” and a low crime rate, very few voices are calling for drastic measures like an outright ban on privately owned firearms. Instead, the majority of anti-gun activists are urging better control over who buys firearms and for what purpose.

Wait...he stole the gun...then murdered 4 people...but...but...they have rules against that sort of thing....and....and...they don't keep ammo in their homes....

Wow, they sound like Americans...

One of the reasons there is not more of a push to introduce more restrictive laws is the country’s deeply ingrained gun culture, which is based on an old belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every man had to keep his weapon at home to be able to fight. Many Swiss still consider gun ownership as their patriotic and civic duty, even though their neutral country has not been involved in an armed conflict in over 160 years.

Good for them....

but they also have their tinfoil hat brigade who believes registering guns on a national level would have stopped the two mass shootings...

Here is the other one...

The issue is even more pertinent these days because the tragedy at the Menznau factory, where an employee armed with a Sphinx AT380 weapon opened fire on his co-workers in the company’s cafeteria, came only weeks after another shooter killed three people and wounded two others in the southern Swiss village of Daillon in early January.

These happened in 2013....is anyone surprised we didn't hear about them...

 

[ChrisL]

And that is going to stop accidents from happening how again?

Less guns less chance of an accident. Although why you're bringing accidents into it.....

Well then your "point" is even more pointless because gun laws are certainly not going to stop criminals and murderers. They can easily obtain illegal weapons off the streets, and if there are bans in effect, they will do that and strengthen the illegal market for guns.

 

[Dr Grump]

Here is the Wikipedia article in defensive gun uses...it is of course biased...but I usually show it to point out that even anti gun researchers believe that 100,000 crimes are stopped by regular people armed with guns...

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Besides the NSDS and NCVS surveys, ten national and three state surveys summarized by Kleck and Gertz gave 764 thousand to 3.6 million DGU per year.[3]Hemenway contends the Kleck and Gertz study is unreliable and no conclusions can be drawn from it.[4] He argues that there are too many "false positives" in the surveys, and finds the NCVS figures more reliable, yielding estimates of around 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Applying different adjustments, other social scientists suggest that between 250,000 and 370,000 incidences per year.[9][10]

That is between 600-1100 a day. I don't believe it.

 

[Dr Grump]

hmmm..just found this. Mass shootings in Switzerland...but...but...that can't happen...they have regulations against that sort of thing...right?


Why Two Mass Shootings Will Not Change Swiss Gun Culture TIME.com

Over the weekend, authorities reported that the suspect in the Menznau shooting, who arrived in Switzerland as an asylum seeker from Kosovo in 1991 and became a naturalized Swiss citizen, used his brother’s gun in the rampage. (The perpetrator, whose name was not released, reportedly suffered from psychological problems, and arms permits cannot be issued to people with a history of mental illness.)

However, unlike the current emotional debate surrounding gun control in the U.S., the Swiss approach is more dispassionate and pragmatic. Given Switzerland’s long history of what the Swiss proudly call “responsible gun ownership” and a low crime rate, very few voices are calling for drastic measures like an outright ban on privately owned firearms. Instead, the majority of anti-gun activists are urging better control over who buys firearms and for what purpose.

The point being they still have fuck-all compared to the US, and they still have paperwork you have to fill out before buying.