Zone1 NY State's politically selectively prosecution of Trump?

[WorldWatcher]

Thank you, you are convicting Trump for what Cohen pleaded to.

I didn't convict Trump of anything. He was convicted by a jury of his peers.

This is how the government works, they threaten a man with endless jail and millions in court costs forcing the poor soul to plead guilty.

Because once showed the evidence against him.

Pleading guilty is much different then being convicted so keep your lies or ignorance to yourself until you actually learn what happened.

No it's not. Charges are made, and instead of going through a trial, a pleading of guilty is made.

A Judge * * CANNOT * * accept a guilty plea where the evidence shows the defendant didn't commit the crime charged.

Claiming Trump is guilty because of a plea bargain of a lawyer, talk about supporting tyranny with pure ignorance. I can see how Stalin convicted all those innocent folks and sent them to the Gulags, it is because of the ignorance and stupidity of people.

Trump is guilty of falsification of business records as a felony by attempting to aid or conceal another crime.

As part of pre-trial motions Justice Merchan specifically warned the prosecution that they could not attempt to convince the jury that "Because Cohen was guilty for federal crimes, that Trump is therefore guilty". The prosecution had the responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump committed the crimes that * * HE * * was charged with. Those indictments under New York State law.

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[WorldWatcher]

You are completely ignorant. Two points you just made, I have proven as pure ignorance in less than a minute. Do I need to go down your pathetic list and show every bit of ignorance you just posted. Nothing you posted is correct

Ahhhh...

Instead of discussing facts, you have devolved to the name calling stage very quickly.

Instead of watching the world from afar, how about watching the government from up close

Mission and history - FEC.gov

Find what you need to know about the federal campaign finance process. Explore legal resources, campaign finance data, help for candidates and committees, and more.

www.fec.gov

The Federal Election Commission (FEC) is the independent regulatory agency charged with administering and enforcing the federal campaign finance law. The FEC has jurisdiction over the financing of campaigns for the U.S. House, Senate, Presidency and the Vice Presidency.

Thank you for posting information that directly supports what I said. Which was that the FEC is a civil agency NOT a criminal law enforcement agency. It's right there in the paragraph you quoted: "The Federal Election Commission (FEC) is the independent REGULATORY AGENCY charged with administering and enforcing the federal campaign finance law."

It's a regulatory agency, taking civil actions. The FEC is now a criminal law enforcement agency, at the federal level that is the Department of Justice. The fact that the GOP commissioners blocked their investigators from looking at the Trump campaign does not matter one wit to the fact that Cohen committed campaign fraud, was charged, and was convicted.

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[WorldWatcher]

You are speaking of Federal Election Laws. The Federal Election Commission investigated this and stated that no violation occurred.

No they didn't. The professional investigators at the FEC recommended investigating the complaint. The GOP commissioners blocked that recommendation and killed it based on politics.

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[WorldWatcher]

The judge prevented the FEC expert from testifying that it wasn’t a crime.

Properly so. The FEC expert was allowed to testify about his area of expertise which was the FEC, it's history and it's functioning.

The FEC expert was NOT an expert on criminal law and it's application by the court system. The defense wanted to the FEC expert to testify that Cohen's criminal conviction was invalid, in other words they wanted in this court to attempt to try Cohen's case all over because if Cohen's conviction was invalid, then there was not "intent" to hide his crime since the defense would argue it didn't exist.

However Cohen's conviction of campaign fraud in federal court was/is prima facia evidence that (a) a crime was committed, and (b) that Cohen was the perpetrator of that crime.

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[elektra]

No they didn't. The professional investigators at the FEC recommended investigating the complaint. The GOP commissioners blocked that recommendation and killed it based on politics.

Calling dollars spent on lawyers or legal non-disclosure agreements would of gone nowhere, and did

 

[elektra]

Ahhhh...
Instead of discussing facts, you have devolved to the name calling...

Ahhhhh, I should of realized the simple defintion of words are not known to you. Which is apparant when instead of admitting facts you claim it was politics.

Ignorance is s lack of knowledge. Those who ger upset and call such name calling, may be a bit, dumb.

Thus far you have cried politics and name calling.

Seems that is all you have.

 

[elektra]

"The Federal Election Commission (FEC) is the independent REGULATORY AGENCY charged with administering and enforcing the federal campaign finance law."

It's a regulatory agency, taking civil actions.

Yes, a regulatory agency with exclusive jurisdiction.

Why highlight one part, ignoring the other parts? The other part prove you incorrect.

Why did you cherry pick. Leaving out this part, it is part of the same, small, paragraph.
The FEC has jurisdiction over the financing of campaigns for the U.S. House, Senate, Presidency and the Vice Presidency.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Calling dollars spent on lawyers or legal non-disclosure agreements would of gone nowhere, and did

It went to court and Trump was convicted.

That's not my definition of no where.

So let's say...

I have my attorney buy me a personal purchase of a Mercedes-AMG GT Roadster clocking in at $130,700 MSRP, which I trick out to about $150,000.

The attorney buys the car for me and I pay him back over 12 months "Taxing Up" the payments to cover income taxes for the attorney, plus a bonus, paying a total of $350,000 over the 12 months which the attorney invoices as "attorney services".
.
.
.
.
.
Does that transform the purchase of a personal car (non tax deductible) in to a business tax deduction for "attorney services" when routed through my business?

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[WorldWatcher]

Ahhhhh, I should of realized the simple defintion of words are not known to you. Which is apparant when instead of admitting facts you claim it was politics.

Ignorance is s lack of knowledge. Those who ger upset and call such name calling, may be a bit, dumb.

Thus far you have cried politics and name calling.

Still at it I see.

Seems that is all you have.

No, I have the facts of the case. Indictment, Statement of Facts, the law, evidence, transcripts, and the jury verdict.

That's plenty.

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[WorldWatcher]

Yes, a regulatory agency with exclusive jurisdiction.

The FEC doesn't have "exclusive jurisdiction" anyone that told you that is lying to you.

The FEC has Federal CIVIL "jurisdiction".

The DOJ has Federal CRIMINAL "jurisdiction".

The States have State civil and criminal jurisdiction.

Why highlight one part, ignoring the other parts? The other part prove you incorrect.

No they don't.

The DOJ prosecuting criminal violations of Federal law show they are the criminal law enforcement agency.

The FEC can only levy civil fines.

Why did you cherry pick. Leaving out this part, it is part of the same, small, paragraph.
The FEC has jurisdiction over the financing of campaigns for the U.S. House, Senate, Presidency and the Vice Presidency.

Didn't leave it out, it's immaterial to what was said. It doesn't say "exclusive" and it doesn't say "criminal". The FEC can only supervise and levy civil fines. They are not a criminal law enforcement agency.

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[elektra]

It went to court and Trump was convicted.
That's not my definition of no where.

A Complaint was filed with the federal agency that enforces the law. It went no where. Which you state is your definition of, no where.

State court stated a Federal law was violated thus basing the state's case on a lie.

NO Federal Crime, Trump is innocent.

This is everyone's definition of a politically corrupt court.

 

[elektra]

So let's say...

I have my attorney buy me a personal purchase of a Mercedes-AMG GT Roadster clocking in at $130,700 MSRP, which I trick out to about $150,000.

So let's say, we have a real case to discuss and not your fictional unrelated scenario.

 

[WorldWatcher]

A Complaint was filed with the federal agency that enforces the law. It went no where. Which you state is your definition of, no where.

A civil complaint was filed with the FEC, the investigators recommended actually investigating it. The GOP members killed it not based on merit after an investigation, but based on polics by preventing an investigation.

The FEC enforces civil law, the DOJ enforces criminal law. Which that did when Cohen was charged and convicted.

State court stated a Federal law was violated thus basing the state's case on a lie.

The state proseuctor stated there was a Federal law violation and they were correct. Cohen was charged and convicted in Federal court which is prima facia evidence in state court that a Federal crime occurred.

NO Federal Crime,

Yes, Federal crime - Cohen's conviction.

Trump is innocent.

Trump wasn't charged with a Federal crime, that was committed by Cohen.

Trump was charged with a State crime of falsification of business records to conceal Cohen's illegal activities.

He was convicted.

This is everyone's definition of a politically corrupt court.

No, it's the very definition of criminal charges stemming from a conspiracy to rig the 2016 election through violations of Federal law (Cohen) and State law (Trump).

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[WorldWatcher]

So let's say, we have a real case to discuss and not your fictional unrelated scenario.

We've been discussing a real case regarding Trump's conviction.

But I can understand your attempt to ignore the description of a parallel and how it undercuts they logic.

Just because an attorney invoices money for a retainer that didn't exist for work not performed during the period that the invoice stated that work was performed does not make a conspiracy to conceal a crime not a - well - conspiracy to commit a crime.

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[elektra]

A civil complaint was filed with the FEC, the investigators recommended actually investigating it. The GOP members killed it not based on merit after an investigation, but based on polics by preventing an investigation.

A complaint was filed. It was determined no law was broke.

Democrat investigators, based on politics, wanted Trump to be prosecuted.

Still no crime. You support convicting an innocent man.

 

[WorldWatcher]

A complaint was filed. It was determined no law was broke.

Yes it was "determined" that the complaint wouldn't be investigated.

Democrat investigators, based on politics, wanted Trump to be prosecuted.

FEC investigators, you have know knowledge of what political party to which they belonged.

Still no crime. You support convicting an innocent man.

Yes there was a crime.

Cohen was charged and convicted of it. He wasn't innocent.

Trump was charged of State felonious falsification of business records and he was convicted. He wasn't innocent.

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[elektra]

FEC investigators, you have know knowledge of what political party to which they belonged.

FEC investigators, you have no knowledge of. You do not know what political party they belong to.

FEC, the complaint is submitted. The board reviews and determines if a may of been committed. The board, if they believe a crime is committed then orders an investigation.

FEC, determined no crime was committed.

You have no knowledge as to if the commissioners were partisan or not.

 

[elektra]

Yes there was a crime.
Cohen was charged and convicted of it. He wasn't innocent.

Cohen is not Trump. We do not declare anyone is guilty based on the conviction of someone else.

Cohen was forced to plead. No trial. Had Cohen went to trial he may of been found innocent. Sadly going to trial can and does financially bankrupt people all across the USA.

COHENS's guilt or innocence is Cohen's alone. Irrelevant in regards to Trump.

 

[WorldWatcher]

FEC investigators, you have no knowledge of. You do not know what political party they belong to.

FEC, the complaint is submitted. The board reviews and determines if a may of been committed. The board, if they believe a crime is committed then orders an investigation.

The complaint was submitted, investigators recommended pursuing it. The GOP members of the board killed it.

Again, the FEC isn't a criminal law enforcement agency. They are a civil enforcement agency. Criminal law enforcement actions at the Federal level is a DOJ function.

FEC, determined no crime was committed.

No they didn't.

They determined not to persue a civil action. Not that there was no crime committed, criminal enforcement is a DOJ function.

You have no knowledge as to if the commissioners were partisan or not.

Sure we do. None of the GOP members of the commission voted to open an investigation over riding the recommendation of their own investigators.

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[WorldWatcher]

Cohen is not Trump.

Never said he was.

We do not declare anyone is guilty based on the conviction of someone else.

Correct.

The prosecution still had the burden of proof to show that Trump commited the indicated crimes to conceal Cohen's crimes.

They met that standard, the jury convicted. Trump is now convicted of state crimes for falsification of business records (Class E Felony).

Cohen was forced to plead. No trial. Had Cohen went to trial he may of been found innocent. Sadly going to trial can and does financially bankrupt people all across the USA.

Might, mayhap, maybe....

Doesn't change the fact he was charged and convicted of his crimes. A guilty plea is still a conviction.

COHENS's guilt or innocence is Cohen's alone. Irrelevant in regards to Trump.

False.

The attempt to aid/conceal Cohen in his criminal activity through conspiracy on the front end and felonious falsification of state business records on the back end, is and essential element of the 34 felonies for which Trump was convicted.

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