Obama - a legacy of recycling Jimmy Carter's failed policies

[candycorn]

Yet you're the one following me around, trying to pick a fight, have nothing better to do....all in all you're acting like the loser we all know you are.

I'm "following you around"?!? Ass-hat, I started this thread. You're the one who felt the need to jump in and cry like a little bitch because you don't like the facts. I have two links - one from the AP - showing the disaster Obama has made out of the economy. You felt the need to start posting the results of the electoral college because you can't deny your idol is collapsing the U.S.

Now come on crybaby - do what you always do and try to deny the fact that I started this thread and thus you followed me like a desperate little kitty...

332-206..

You chose to engage...you don't have anyone IRL that you can talk to...poor baby

 

[candycorn]

even the GOP didn't want to vote for him.

I think that is why Rotten and Reddy are so pissed all the time; they had to vote for this guy that owns showhorses and claim him as one of their own. I think if you injected these two jugheads with truth serum, they'd admit that they knew Romney didn't give two shits about them or anyone they know; they just hate Obama the man so much that they'd sell their soul to try to eject him from office.

Was Kennedy rich? Did you vote for him?

I can only speak for myself, I do not hate Obama the man, I hate what he stands for, what he believes, and what he is trying to do to OUR country.

and yes, a majority of americans voted for him twice. And, the USA is getting what it voted for-----------incompetence, inexperience, and a deep seated hatred of everything this country stands for.

It was the majority of voters actually.

The incompetence, inexperience and deep seated hatred are what you're trying to sow; not Obama.

Kennedy died several years before I was born.

 

[Redfish]

I think that is why Rotten and Reddy are so pissed all the time; they had to vote for this guy that owns showhorses and claim him as one of their own. I think if you injected these two jugheads with truth serum, they'd admit that they knew Romney didn't give two shits about them or anyone they know; they just hate Obama the man so much that they'd sell their soul to try to eject him from office.

Was Kennedy rich? Did you vote for him?

I can only speak for myself, I do not hate Obama the man, I hate what he stands for, what he believes, and what he is trying to do to OUR country.

and yes, a majority of americans voted for him twice. And, the USA is getting what it voted for-----------incompetence, inexperience, and a deep seated hatred of everything this country stands for.

It was the majority of voters actually.

The incompetence, inexperience and deep seated hatred are what you're trying to sow; not Obama.

Kennedy died several years before I was born.

Your youth explains a lot, your avatar of Fluke explains even more. Hopefully as you age and gain some real life experiences you will realize the liberalism is a failed ideology that hurts the lower and middle classes much worse than the rich.

 

[candycorn]

Was Kennedy rich? Did you vote for him?

I can only speak for myself, I do not hate Obama the man, I hate what he stands for, what he believes, and what he is trying to do to OUR country.

and yes, a majority of americans voted for him twice. And, the USA is getting what it voted for-----------incompetence, inexperience, and a deep seated hatred of everything this country stands for.

It was the majority of voters actually.

The incompetence, inexperience and deep seated hatred are what you're trying to sow; not Obama.

Kennedy died several years before I was born.

Your youth explains a lot, your avatar of Fluke explains even more. Hopefully as you age and gain some real life experiences you will realize the liberalism is a failed ideology that hurts the lower and middle classes much worse than the rich.

Yeah, women who don't "know their place" is always a target of the right wing.
332-206; no failure there beeotch.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I would call this astounding "failure" - except that these are the exact results Obama intended from the beginning:

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday that U.S. employers added only 169,000 jobs in August and that the labor force participation rate edged down to 63.2 percent, its lowest point since August 1978.

(and who was president again in 1978?)

It’s worth noting that the unemployment rate today would be approximately 10.8% if labor force participation were at January 2009 levels.

(after 4.5 years and 100% of the policies he insisted would "solve" the problem - we see an economy exponentially worse than the one he inherited)

Obamas failed economy

not this time on Syria anyhow

first axelrod was on the tube spouting reagans diplomacy worked

in this case "peace through strength"

since the threat of a few cruize missiles scared Syria and Russia into compliance

now just today spokes model jay carney reaffirmed Reagan diplomacy

works when at the presser he said we will "trust but verify"

that they are ridding the chemical weapons

--LOL

cant get any better then that

 

[skye]

Obama's legacy will successfully achieve the impossible....making the Jimmy Carter's days look good.

You can not get worse than that!

 

[JoeB131]

[

First of all, "everyone else" could do the same thing. Go into business for themselves. Second, businesses model what other successful businesses do because they have to compete. So when you started pulling away top talent because you paid them more, treated them better, and ran a more successful business, other businesses would follow suit.

Guy, I want a world that works well for EVERYONE, not just the business scum or the 1%ers.

So do most of us.

Once again, when you realize your position is indefensible, you become completely disingenuous. Lets start with the realization that workers don't have "rights" (check the Constitution). Second, you're openly admitting you're too lazy to do it better, so you're lazy ass would rather just pull a lever and trade away your rights, freedoms, and power to an oligarchy in exchange for them forcing other people to run their business the way that you want.

Guy, sorry, I won't miss the freedom to be cheated and lied to by my employer. I would HAPPILY see that freedom taken away from him, because I never have a desire to excercise it.

Oh, at this point, I'm pulling the lever out of pure fucking revenge.

Also, and I truly do mean this seriously, fuck poor people like you who are too lazy to work for what you want. We should tax the fuck out of lazy poor people anyway, to help drive them off to Cuba where they long to be in the first place. You people have never paid your fair share and you do nothing for society other than drag of down. You people are just parasites who are collapsing the U.S. It's time we get you useless people out of this country and under Castro where you belong.

Guy, most of the poor work their asses off. It's the one percenters who sit on their asses and collect the fruits of their labor are the problem.

The thing is, you are turning this country into Cuba under Batista. Pick up a history book to see where that usually ends up. The rich get to fly out, toadies like you end up on boats.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, sorry, I like drinking clean water.

Then clean it yourself you lazy fuck. I like an immaculate home - I don't ask you to come clean it for me

Not talking about my home. Now maybe in the shack you live in, you drill the water right up from next to the septic tank, but out here, us city people, we like getting our water from a common resivoir.

And we don't want rich assholes dumping carcinogens in them to make a quick buck.

I work more than 40 hours every single week and I don't get one extra penny. Gasp! And guess what Joe - I'm alive and well....

Then you are sort of pathetic. I'm glad you like working for free to make someone else rich.

The only thing that came to an end was freedom and prosperity. Ever since unions and government stepped in - jobs have been shipped over seas. How is that working on for you Joe? The funniest part is, as is always the case, you libtards created the problem and then you cry the loudest about it.

Simple solution to that. Tax the shit out of anything that comes in from overseas. Easy-peasy. Also, when some asshole moves his plant overseas, put his picture and his address on TV so everyone knows who he is.

Ever since the federal government overstepped their Constitutional bounds, this nation has spiraled into a $16 trillion debt that will collapse us.

Only because Reagan and Bush cut taxes for rich assholes.

Shit, man, back under LBJ, we taxed the rich at 70%. We not only posted surpluses, we had a Great Society, we put men on the moon, and check it out, we even had a Great Society.

This is why I go easy on you, because of your youth. I'm old enough to remember what a REAL middle class looks like.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Yet the corporations are making billions. At our expense.

....as are Government, Unions, and "Non Profits". What is your point? Big is Big.

 

[francoHFW]

109- total BS...

Carter also had not one combat death, totally turned around by covert chickenhawk Raygun and his pals Saddam and Osama- how did that work out...

Too bad Carter had Teddy and Dems who blocked his spending cuts...but at least he didn't ruin the nonrich LONG TERM by pandering to the rich- or have a defense or S and L BUBBLE...

 

[JoeB131]

109- total BS...

Carter also had not one combat death, totally turned around by covert chickenhawk Raygun and his pals Saddam and Osama- how did that work out...

Too bad Carter had Teddy and Dems who blocked his spending cuts...but at least he didn't ruin the nonrich LONG TERM by pandering to the rich- or have a defense or S and L BUBBLE...

Actually, Carter had 6 combat deaths in Iran.

And Reagan didn't have that many.

 

[P@triot]

First of all, "everyone else" could do the same thing. Go into business for themselves. Second, businesses model what other successful businesses do because they have to compete. So when you started pulling away top talent because you paid them more, treated them better, and ran a more successful business, other businesses would follow suit.

Guy, I want a world that works well for EVERYONE, not just the business scum or the 1%ers. So do most of us.

We already have that. People much poorer than you (Chris Gardner and Michael Oher just to name a couple) ended up with tens of millions through hard work, commitment, and determination. And both are minorities too.

So when two minorities from the worst case of poverty can end up millionaires without any hand outs from government - it proves that:

A.) We have a system that works for EVERYONE

B.) You are trying to destroy that system

C.) You're full of SHIT

Once again, when you realize your position is indefensible, you become completely disingenuous. Lets start with the realization that workers don't have "rights" (check the Constitution). Second, you're openly admitting you're too lazy to do it better, so you're lazy ass would rather just pull a lever and trade away your rights, freedoms, and power to an oligarchy in exchange for them forcing other people to run their business the way that you want.

Guy, sorry, I won't miss the freedom to be cheated and lied to by my employer. I would HAPPILY see that freedom taken away from him, because I never have a desire to excercise it. Oh, at this point, I'm pulling the lever out of pure fucking revenge.

And yet you crave being CHEATED and LIED to by your government

(This just proves that it's not about integrity with you - it's about your envy of those who have more than you in life)

When your employer "cheats" you and "lies" to you, you can start your own business. Or you can quit your job and find a new employer. But when your government cheats you and lies to you - you are fucked.

Also, and I truly do mean this seriously, fuck poor people like you who are too lazy to work for what you want. We should tax the fuck out of lazy poor people anyway, to help drive them off to Cuba where they long to be in the first place. You people have never paid your fair share and you do nothing for society other than drag of down. You people are just parasites who are collapsing the U.S. It's time we get you useless people out of this country and under Castro where you belong.

Guy, most of the poor work their asses off. It's the one percenters who sit on their asses and collect the fruits of their labor are the problem.

The thing is, you are turning this country into Cuba under Batista. Pick up a history book to see where that usually ends up. The rich get to fly out, toadies like you end up on boats.

No poor people "work their asses off". That's why their poor. Half of them are heroin addicts that would rather get high in a back alley than do anything else in life. The other half are lazy, useless, envious little creatures like you. Either way - fuck 'em. We've coddled you little bitches for far too long. It's time to take the pacifiers out of your mouths, stop wiping your little chins, and turn you lose to fend for yourselves. Cuba is waiting for you Joe. I suggest you get your boat ticket now.

 

[P@triot]

Guy, sorry, I like drinking clean water.

Then clean it yourself you lazy fuck. I like an immaculate home - I don't ask you to come clean it for me

Not talking about my home. Now maybe in the shack you live in, you drill the water right up from next to the septic tank, but out here, us city people, we like getting our water from a common resivoir. And we don't want rich assholes dumping carcinogens in them to make a quick buck.

"We like our water from a common reservoir" (nice spelling by the way - no wonder you're not employable) is Joe code for "I want someone to provide my water for me - preferably in a bottle with a nipple just like mommy used to do for me".

1.) You can go to the store and purchase bottled water

2.) You can collect rain water and boil it or treat it with iodine

3.) You can harvest water from the ground through a variety of techniques such as "witching"

4.) You can purchase an atmospheric water generator that would provide you with unlimited clean drinking water that no business could contaminate

But all of those simple solutions require one common denominator - personal responsibility. JoeB. would have to get up off of his lazy ass and actually provide for himself. And that is something lazy JoeB refuses to accept.

I work more than 40 hours every single week and I don't get one extra penny. Gasp! And guess what Joe - I'm alive and well....

Then you are sort of pathetic. I'm glad you like working for free to make someone else rich.

Let me get this straight - you're an hourly factory worker, I'm a salaried professional and a small business entrepreneur, and I'm the "pathetic" one?

The only thing that came to an end was freedom and prosperity. Ever since unions and government stepped in - jobs have been shipped over seas. How is that working on for you Joe? The funniest part is, as is always the case, you libtards created the problem and then you cry the loudest about it.

Simple solution to that. Tax the shit out of anything that comes in from overseas. Easy-peasy. Also, when some asshole moves his plant overseas, put his picture and his address on TV so everyone knows who he is.

Good thing Joe is not a doctor: "so the tests have shown you have cancer - my idea to treat you is to inject you with large portions of more cancer"

Joe - "taxing the shit" out of corporations is what caused them to ship jobs overseas in the first place. It's a simple fact that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. You cannot combat that with more taxes.

Both Detroit and California have implemented your ideas. And both are bankrupt cesspool shit-holes. Incidentally, so did Cuba, Greece, and the former U.S.S.R. (how's that working out?)

Meanwhile, Texas has done the exact opposite of what you advocate for and they are flourishing. You're simply far too ignorant of basic economics to even take seriously, much less respect. Here, why don't you learn something for once in your angry, useless, miserable life....

High Tax States Are Losing Taxpayers - US News and World Report

Ever since the federal government overstepped their Constitutional bounds, this nation has spiraled into a $16 trillion debt that will collapse us.

Only because Reagan and Bush cut taxes for rich assholes.

Shit, man, back under LBJ, we taxed the rich at 70%. We not only posted surpluses, we had a Great Society, we put men on the moon, and check it out, we even had a Great Society.

This is why I go easy on you, because of your youth. I'm old enough to remember what a REAL middle class looks like.

Well besides you're "Great Society" quote being redundant as hell, it's also pure unadulterated bullshit. There was nothing "great" about it. You're just an old, angry, lazy, asshole who remembers what never actually was and can't move on from his youth. But of course, you libtards think of that era as being "great" because you could still mistreat blacks and they weren't allowed to drink from "your" water fountain.

There is a reason Kennedy cut taxes and is on record as stating it's the only way to fix a failing economy - and it's because they tried your ignorant way and it failed (just like you). It's had a 100% failure rate world wide. You can cry for it all you want, but it ain't happening. It's Cuba or nothing for you pal...

 

[francoHFW]

'No poor people "work their asses off". That's why their poor.'

1. they're
2. Absolute RW idiocy. Try earning 6 bucks as a migrant worker. All kinds of poor workers work like mad- that's just so stupid.

 

[francoHFW]

1. JFK NEVER SAID THAT. there are also jobs bills, stimuli- TAX CUTS ONLY WORK UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

chech what reaganism has done after early success- and also included a huge defense stimulus and and s and l bubble.

Memorize the facts, hater dupes:
1. WORKERS past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.
But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):
1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%
A 13% drop since 1980
A 13% drop since 1980
2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.
Share of National Income going to Top 10%:
1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50% TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.
Household Debt as percentage of GDP:
1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%
An increase of 16% since Reagan.
3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.
The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.
1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:
1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%
A 45% increase after 1980.
5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.
Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:
1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%
A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.
The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:
1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%
A 10% Decrease.
Links:
1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Researc...s/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – Congratulations to Emmanuel Saez | The White House
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/imag...ving_thumb.gif
3 = http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/...&LastYear=2010
4 = http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php...or-debt-of-gdp
4 = FRB: Z.1 Release--Financial Accounts of the United States--June 6, 2013
5/6 = Wealth And Inequality In America - Business Insider

 

[JoeB131]

[

We already have that. People much poorer than you (Chris Gardner and Michael Oher just to name a couple) ended up with tens of millions through hard work, commitment, and determination. And both are minorities too.

So when two minorities from the worst case of poverty can end up millionaires without any hand outs from government - it proves that:

A.) We have a system that works for EVERYONE

B.) You are trying to destroy that system

C.) You're full of SHIT

Again, it works well for the 1%. What about the rest of us? Just because you found a couple of people who managed to win at life's lottery doesn't make the lottery fair.

Oh, and yes, I'd happily destroy a system that leaves us with the worst poverty in the industrialized world. Because it is unacceptable for a country this rich to have so much of it living in swaths destitution.

And if you had a lick of sense, you'd want that too. Frankly, I worry about being killed by a poor kid who was never taught to read but was all to able to get his hands on a gun. You should be, too.

And yet you crave being CHEATED and LIED to by your government

No, man, that would be the asshole who insists there were WMD's found in Iraq when there weren't. You seem fine with being lied to by your government, as long as rich people can profit off the war. (and who cares if poor kids come home in body bags or without limbs?)

(This just proves that it's not about integrity with you - it's about your envy of those who have more than you in life)

When your employer "cheats" you and "lies" to you, you can start your own business. Or you can quit your job and find a new employer. But when your government cheats you and lies to you - you are fucked.

Or we can go to our government and pass laws that say, YOU AIN'T ALLOWED TO DO THAT. Oh, wait. We totally did that. It was called "The Labor Movement". And we were so fucking proud of ourselves, we passed a Holiday called "Labor Day" to celebrate it. True, you are like 20 and don't know what a real middle class looks like, so I can understand your confusion.

[
No poor people "work their asses off". That's why their poor. Half of them are heroin addicts that would rather get high in a back alley than do anything else in life. The other half are lazy, useless, envious little creatures like you. Either way - fuck 'em. We've coddled you little bitches for far too long. It's time to take the pacifiers out of your mouths, stop wiping your little chins, and turn you lose to fend for yourselves. Cuba is waiting for you Joe. I suggest you get your boat ticket now.

Guy, I work in manufacturing. Now, I make a good wage because I have college and experience and background. A lot of the ladies who make far less work 8 hours a day on assembly lines standing all day.

Frankly, I get tired of people riding dressage horsies telling me about how hard they worked exploiting others...

This is what you don't get. 20 years ago, I'd have never voted for someone like Obama.

Today, I would. In fact, my biggest problem with Obama is he doesn't go far enough.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

"We like our water from a common reservoir" (nice spelling by the way - no wonder you're not employable) is Joe code for "I want someone to provide my water for me - preferably in a bottle with a nipple just like mommy used to do for me".

1.) You can go to the store and purchase bottled water

2.) You can collect rain water and boil it or treat it with iodine

3.) You can harvest water from the ground through a variety of techniques such as "witching"

4.) You can purchase an atmospheric water generator that would provide you with unlimited clean drinking water that no business could contaminate

But all of those simple solutions require one common denominator - personal responsibility. JoeB. would have to get up off of his lazy ass and actually provide for himself. And that is something lazy JoeB refuses to accept.

And not a one of those things would provide as good of water as we get out of the city water supply, mope. But damn. A Clean Water system that provides decent water to everyone! COMMUNIST!!!!! Don't you know only the wealthy deserve to drink clean water!!!

Let me get this straight - you're an hourly factory worker, I'm a salaried professional and a small business entrepreneur, and I'm the "pathetic" one?

Well, which are you guy, a small businessman Or a Salaried professional. Frankly, people who work for salaries are kind of chumps.

Joe - "taxing the shit" out of corporations is what caused them to ship jobs overseas in the first place. It's a simple fact that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. You cannot combat that with more taxes.

That's like saying a short dress made you rape that girl. It's bullshit. Guy, I work in this feild. Free Trade is as much about breaking the middle class as it is about making a profit for the greedy. Also, America has about the lowest taxes in the Industrialized world. So why are countries like Germany and Japan, which have higher tax rates, more prosperous?

Meanwhile, Texas has done the exact opposite of what you advocate for and they are flourishing. You're simply far too ignorant of basic economics to even take seriously, much less respect. Here, why don't you learn something for once in your angry, useless, miserable life....

Guy, I've been to texas. All I saw were dumb, bible thumping morons who live in poverty who don't know any better. Which is why they elect morons like Dubya and Perry.

Well besides you're "Great Society" quote being redundant as hell, it's also pure unadulterated bullshit. There was nothing "great" about it. You're just an old, angry, lazy, asshole who remembers what never actually was and can't move on from his youth. But of course, you libtards think of that era as being "great" because you could still mistreat blacks and they weren't allowed to drink from "your" water fountain.

What I remember about my youth was my Dad could support 5 kids on a middle class salary and still have enough money left over to afford his fishing cabin in Wisconsin. Most of his neighbors up there other middle class folks. yeah, it did suck for minorities, which is why we needed a great society and a civil rights movement. (Both of which conservatives fought like hell against.)

But we had the wealth we had because we had a middle class, we had unionization, and we had the rich paying their fair share.

There is a reason Kennedy cut taxes and is on record as stating it's the only way to fix a failing economy - and it's because they tried your ignorant way and it failed (just like you). It's had a 100% failure rate world wide. You can cry for it all you want, but it ain't happening. It's Cuba or nothing for you pal...

Actually, JFK still kept the top marginal rate at 70%, and even Nixon and Ford didn't close it.

And frankly, the recession he was trying to fix was so mild it would barely register today.

 

[Mac1958]

.

There are reasonable arguments on both ends of the rich vs. poor/wealth inequality debate, but to pretend that "rich" people just fell into their wealth is either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. What this argument chooses to ignore is the effort, self-discipline, risk-taking and sacrifice it took to get there.

Funny, these folks don't have much to say while that's happening, do they?

It's a dishonest argument and dishonest arguments are not worth wasting time on.

And these folks REALLY want to ignore THIS:

 

[JoeB131]

.

There are reasonable arguments on both ends of the rich vs. poor/wealth inequality debate, but to pretend that "rich" people just fell into their wealth is either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. What this argument chooses to ignore is the effort, self-discipline, risk-taking and sacrifice it took to get there.

Funny, these folks don't have much to say while that's happening, do they?

It's a dishonest argument and dishonest arguments are not worth wasting time on.

And these folks REALLY want to ignore THIS:

]

You know what, a lot of people work hard, sacrifice, excercise self-discipline, and because of the vaguaries of life's lottery, they don't end up being big NBA stars.

They work hard, and they often find themselves getting screwed over by their bosses because maybe they got sick, or maybe the boss needed to show he was "cutting costs" by firing people.

And some don't work quite as hard. They do their jobs contientiously, but they also spend times in their communities and their families and putting their priorities elsewhere, and that doesn't make screwing them over okay, either.

Now, getting back to your example of Michael Jordan. I live in Chicago, he isn't all that. After all his wealth and hard work, his wife Juanita walked out on him because he was chasing too much stray tail. I'm sure his kids aren't too fond of him either at this point.

 

[Mac1958]

.

There are reasonable arguments on both ends of the rich vs. poor/wealth inequality debate, but to pretend that "rich" people just fell into their wealth is either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. What this argument chooses to ignore is the effort, self-discipline, risk-taking and sacrifice it took to get there.

Funny, these folks don't have much to say while that's happening, do they?

It's a dishonest argument and dishonest arguments are not worth wasting time on.

And these folks REALLY want to ignore THIS:

]

You know what, a lot of people work hard, sacrifice, excercise self-discipline, and because of the vaguaries of life's lottery, they don't end up being big NBA stars.

They work hard, and they often find themselves getting screwed over by their bosses because maybe they got sick, or maybe the boss needed to show he was "cutting costs" by firing people.

And some don't work quite as hard. They do their jobs contientiously, but they also spend times in their communities and their families and putting their priorities elsewhere, and that doesn't make screwing them over okay, either.

Now, getting back to your example of Michael Jordan. I live in Chicago, he isn't all that. After all his wealth and hard work, his wife Juanita walked out on him because he was chasing too much stray tail. I'm sure his kids aren't too fond of him either at this point.

Maybe many of these people just think "they work hard". Maybe if they were exercising the self-discipline and sacrifice that some others do, taking the risks that others do, putting in the hours that others do, taking on the stress and responsibilities that others do, they would realize that maybe they weren't working as hard as they thought.

But there's no way they could know. That doesn't stop them from complaining -- out of pure ignorance.

And does Jordan's divorce make his points wrong? It just wipes out the entire point? It makes it somehow wrong? Let's just ignore that whole "effort and learning from failure" thing? Come on Joe, I know you're better than that.

This is why I know this whole issue is a waste of time.

.