Obama and Biden very anti Gun owner, and Gun Rights .

[Shogun]

"statistically speaking" doesn't mean shit when you happen to be that minimal statistic. "STATISTICALLY SPEAKING" you'll never be raped... Now tell me how stupid it is to pretend that rape doesn't occur.


The gun issue is a losing battle for my side. I wish we had more Jim Webbs than caracature pussy bitches who think crime only happens in fictional newspapers and epic greek poetry.


Millions of gun owners are not wrong.

 

[Shogun]

how have i waffled? i said that a gun shouldnt be considered just another object like a bat. is that saying people cant own guns?

can a bat kill you if wielded by hands that want to murder?

 

[editec]

Yeah, that's right americans.

Keep worrying about your precious guns, or alternatively, keep worrying about those who have guns. They are the most important issue on your political plates.

Sleep, sleeeeep!

 

[Eightball]

is that what I said? really? so I should buy a gun because YOU think I should feel safer owning one and because I know I wouldn't I'm illogical?

I've been the victim of a crime, it was committed against me by a member of my own family thank you. If I had a gun I guess I could've shot him.

The sad fact is, IF you are going to be the victim of a crime you are much more likely to know the person committing the crime against you, would you be able to shoot someone you knew?

I want to be clear...I am NOT against guns. I understand why people own them, why people have the right to own them, I'm just for precautions to make sure that the wrong people don't own them, such as people with mental instability issues and history of violence.

You just can't make the mental bridge or connection between being a helpless victim, and an assertive victim that has some means to defend themselves. A gun is a viable option, yet you string out all kinds of deflective stories about being attacked or assaulted by a family member.........What does that have to do with defending one's self?

For instance.........Should I use an example of helplessness as a child victim of........possibly molestation to say that guns are bad? Now there's something very unconnective in my scenario......isn't there?

Let's be very adult about this, shall we? Let's not let subjective past experience as a helpless victim taint, an objective scenario that can happen to anyone of any economic class, race, sex, religion, nationality, or age.

Many of us have been victims of violent personal crime, many have blessedly not been. I hope they never will.

The statistics say that many of us who have been safe up to now in our lives will have some violent encounter that will be very traumatic. Societal-wise there is a very large element in our populous that don't abide by ethics, morals, or laws. They live like self-seeking animals, doing what they want, when they want, how they want, and they have seared consciences, which negates trying to dialogue them out of killing, or hurting you to cover their tracks from the law.

One person here mentioned........"Me and the wife will just escape"............I.E. we won't have to worry about a gun defense........take the furniture, we can jump out the back door or window. I agree, furniture isn't worth a life, nor any inanimate objects, but to say that "we can escape" is a subjective argument, and a type of mental "escapism" in and of itself. I pity that person. I really do. A gun will most likely be a last resort, and in most cases of a break-in by persons intent on physically harming whoever they encounter, it will be the only "escape"(a firearm) from harm.

I used to laugh when radio pundits would say that liberal suffer from brain damage..........Yet, not one anti-gun person on this thread has given a specific, rational anwser to fending off a dangerous intruder in one's home.

I've heard folks say, they've been mugged in public......OK......We are talking about one's private abode, home, apartment, townhouse, condo, ranchette, tent, cave....etc.... where you live.

Here's what we have up to date: I'll escape out of the house, call the police, think gun death statistics in the U.S.A., do the Swiss method....outlaw handguns, and have an assault rifle for protection.

Someone here even had the nonsensical gall to say that if we outlaw handguns, then we don't have to worry, cause the bad guys don't have handguns anymore.......

I don't even want to answer that one........Seems like we trust the bad or criminal element more than we trust ourselves to obey the law.

Only in liberal run cities do we have dumb old, "Turn in your guns anonymously for a $50.00 coupon, all you criminals, and we'll look the other way." Ironically, Oakland, California did this a few years ago, and their murder rate is still running higher than previous years. When you have anti-gun mayors like Willie Brown, and Jerry Brown, your doomed.

Know, what?.........The only guns turned in are by pro-active sheeple.......oops, meant, anti-gun folks who's over active consciences, pushes them ridiculously over the precipice of logic and self preservation.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, that's right americans.

Keep worrying about your precious guns, or alternatively, keep worrying about those who have guns. They are the most important issue on your political plates.

Sleep, sleeeeep!

yea, i'd say preserving the fucking constition IS a pretty worthy issue to pay attention to. your snarky fucking comments don't erase the second Amendment. I bet you are not this casual with the application of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh, eh?

 

[busara]

can a bat kill you if wielded by hands that want to murder?

and a tank is just a car, right?

is a bat designed with the purpose of killing someone? look, i already covered this. it is made to be a weapon, not a common tool. that doesnt mean americans cant own them, as they clearly can due to the second amendment.

 

[Eightball]

Yeah, that's right americans.

Keep worrying about your precious guns, or alternatively, keep worrying about those who have guns. They are the most important issue on your political plates.

Sleep, sleeeeep!

Interestingly, you and a famous dictator back in the 1930's worried about private citizens owning firearms......His last name started with H, and ended with an "r". He disarmed the populous, and the populous was at his mercy.

Every despotic leader in modern age, starts out their power move by eliminating firearms from the citizenry.

Why: Thats a no-brainer. This is how you maintain your power base. Hitler did it........and more despots than we can count with our fingers and toes since then have utilized the same methods. Dis-arm the citizenry, and they are now helpless, but must accept any unethical, or undemocratic, unprincipled rule of the government.

Actually the underlying reasons for gun control are just that. Less chance of protest from the citizenry. That's the covert and accurate agenda. Outwardly or publically, it's to protect us from ourselves...........Yeah, sure. Big Bro, wants to take good care of us......Yeah, sure.

 

[Shogun]

is a bat designed with the purpose of killing someone? look, i already covered this. it is made to be a weapon, not a common tool. that doesnt mean americans cant own them, as they clearly can due to the second amendment.

I guess that depends on the person wielding the fucking bat. Do you realize that the very FIRST weapon that a human ever picked up was likely a club?


And, define "common" tool, dude... I have a plastic knife used to chop lettuce in my kitchen.. is that common enough? Is there a "too sharp to be common" point that I should be aware of? You are goddamn right "due to the second amendment". If you can bitch about gun rights despite that then, please, don't get your panties in a bunch over violations of the Fourth when you hear about wiretapping. Or The first when The Ginsbergs and Bruce's go on trial. YOU don't want a gun? fine. dont have one. But, your bullshit hardon over guns doesn't erase the fact that millions of people EVERY DAY manage to own guns, and use them, without killing other human beings.

 

[Shogun]

and a tank is just a car, right?

is a bat designed with the purpose of killing someone? look, i already covered this. it is made to be a weapon, not a common tool. that doesnt mean americans cant own them, as they clearly can due to the second amendment.

no, a tank is not a car. Thats pretty fucking stupid to say on your part. Just like a fucking submarine is not a fishing boat. Not to mention, that you don't even have the RIGHT TO DRIVE ON PUBLIC STREETS.


did you have anything else you need answered?

 

[busara]

no, a tank is not a car. Thats pretty fucking stupid to say on your part. Just like a fucking submarine is not a fishing boat. Not to mention, that you don't even have the RIGHT TO DRIVE ON PUBLIC STREETS.


did you have anything else you need answered?

oh, so there are differences between weapons and non weapons? the fact that almost anything can be used as a weapon doesnt mean it was designed as such. someone can choke to death on a piece of steak. so the steak is a weapon!

if you would actually listen to what i said, it is that a gun is designed to kill. a bat is not. therefore, a gun shouldnt be treated the same as a bat. just like a tank shouldnt be treated the same as a car.

im not saying anything radical here. just that a gun isnt just another 'tool'


and much anger you have, young shogun. watch your blood pressure

 

[Shogun]

oh, so there are differences between weapons and non weapons? the fact that almost anything can be used as a weapon doesnt mean it was designed as such. someone can choke to death on a piece of steak. so the steak is a weapon!

if you would actually listen to what i said, it is that a gun is designed to kill. a bat is not. therefore, a gun shouldnt be treated the same as a bat. just like a tank shouldnt be treated the same as a car.

im not saying anything radical here. just that a gun isnt just another 'tool'


and much anger you have, young shogun. watch your blood pressure

yes.. there is. It's all about the intent of the person using the tool. I could kill you with a screwdriver. a claw hammer. laundry detergent. antifreeze. ANYTHING I wanted to use to kill you is but a reach away.

Again, DESIGNED AS SUCH? what the hell do you think Neanderthals were using to kill each other with before discovering how to chip stones? Clubs. What is a baseball bat? a club.


and, again with the stupid comparisons, eh? STEAK? Does a cook murder someone if a customer chokes on a steak? Is that the same answer if the cook puts antifreeze, just a tool, in the bbq sauce?

yes, you are trying to mold the definition of tool around your opinion. I think it's pretty radical to ignore the fact of how many homo sapiens have ever been CLUBBED to death just because you don't like black powder machines.



A CLUB IS DESIGNED TO KILL. HITTING A BALL WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL USE FOR A FUCKING CLUB.



and, a tank is NOT a car. I've already stated this. Not that you have the right to drive a car anyway.


You have much ignorance in you, basura.. go read a book.

HAMMER! JUST A TOOL!

 

[busara]

a baseball bat is designed to hit a ball. it isnt made with the purpose of beating someone with it. the clubs you posted werent designed to hit a baseball, they were designed to beat someone to death with. see the difference?
"It's all about the intent of the person using the tool."
so if we have someone who drives a tank without the intent to kill, it is no longer a weapon? when someone drives a riding mower without the blades turned on, is it suddenly no longer a mower? like it or not, there is a difference between a bat and a gun. for some reason you cant grasp that. if a gun were no different than a kitchen knife or a baseball bat, there would be no restrictions on them.

"theres a waiting period on to buy that gun."
"oh, but i dont intend to use it to hurt someone."
"well in that case, here ya go."

a gun is designed as a weapon. a baseball bat is not. why the hell are you arguing that?

and taking a shot at my age with the driving remark? how immature. anyone who must result to insults is pathetic

 

[strollingbones]

I have a part time job at a brew thur...we dont keep a gun on the premises.....we keep a baseball bat. a gun will trump a baseball bat but you can inflict a lot of damage with a baseball bat. skull fractures are no joke.
check out a lot of stores, look in the corner in back of the cashier....see what you find.

 

[Shogun]

a baseball bat is designed to hit a ball. it isnt made with the purpose of beating someone with it. the clubs you posted werent designed to hit a baseball, they were designed to beat someone to death with. see the difference?
"It's all about the intent of the person using the tool."
so if we have someone who drives a tank without the intent to kill, it is no longer a weapon? when someone drives a riding mower without the blades turned on, is it suddenly no longer a mower? like it or not, there is a difference between a bat and a gun. for some reason you cant grasp that. if a gun were no different than a kitchen knife or a baseball bat, there would be no restrictions on them.

"theres a waiting period on to buy that gun."
"oh, but i dont intend to use it to hurt someone."
"well in that case, here ya go."

a gun is designed as a weapon. a baseball bat is not. why the hell are you arguing that?

and taking a shot at my age with the driving remark? how immature. anyone who must result to insults is pathetic

no, a baseball bat is taken from a design meant to shatter a human skull. I've posted my evidence. where is yours?

uh, you DO realize that baseball bats ARE used as weapons, right? just checking.


and yes, if I drive a tank down the street and use it for transportation it is no more a weapon than a CLAW HAMMER used to drive in a nail.. DESPITE

and no.. if it is not used for mowing grass then it is not a LAWN MOWER. Is the knife used to stab a mugging victim STILL just a steak knife? Is a prison shank STILL just a toothbrush?


and, there are restrictions because jackasses with fuzzy logic about the application of selective amendments have had their way in government. trigger locks wont keep criminals from killing people with guns. Bckground checks won't keep criminals from getting a handgun. Your retarded justification of selective amendment importance HINGES on ignoring the WEAPONS turned tools above.

again, I"VE POSTED my evidence that a club (bat) was originally a weapon. I hate to break it to you.. but that design wans't invented for the sake of baseball.

a shot at your age? what the fuck are you even talking about? You DO REALIZE THAT DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, right brainiac? NOT A RIGHT? Can you hear me now? Can you READ the letters on line fuck you?

 

[Shogun]

I have a part time job at a brew thur...we dont keep a gun on the premises.....we keep a baseball bat. a gun will trump a baseball bat but you can inflict a lot of damage with a baseball bat. skull fractures are no joke.
check out a lot of stores, look in the corner in back of the cashier....see what you find.

that is EXACTLY it. a fucking baseball bat is in the design of a club..

 

[Shogun]

Club (weapon)

Baseball and T-ball bats - The baseball bat is often used as an improvised weapon, much like the pickaxe handle. In countries where baseball is not commonly played, baseball bats are often first thought of as weapons, and in Poland, baseball bats have been made illegal to possess without a license[citation needed]. Tee ball bats are also used in this manner. Their smaller size and lighter weight make the bat easier to handle in one hand than a baseball bat.

Club (weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[busara]

that is EXACTLY it. a fucking baseball bat is in the design of a club.. the FIRST fucking weapon!

you like posting pictures eh? you are posting information which has nothing to do with what i'm stating. a baseball bat is not made to be a weapon. a yo-yo isnt made to be a weapon, even though it used to be. a barbie doll could be used as a weapon. doesnt mean it was made to be one. how many different ways can i state this? a gun should be treated different than these other common objects because it is made to be a weapon. just like an rpg, a tank, a land mine .....

im not saying a bat cant be used as one. just that bat isnt made to be one. so what are you trying to argue here? that a bat should have restrictions like guns do?

 

[Silence]

Eightball, I was making the point that I've been the victim of a violent crime, it wasn't a stranger who committed this crime against me therefore owning a gun wouldn't have really made me any safer.

The safety of guns is an ILLUSION pure and simple. You, as a gun owner, aren't really any safer than I am, as a none gun owner. and the reason I believe that is because if as a non-gun owner I'm more likely to be a victim why haven't a been one yet? Because crime isn't as rampant and raging as the nightly news would have us believe, not by strangers anyway.

I don't know how people function when everyday they think they could be the victim of a violent attack. I believe it's possible, I'm not blind to it and I certainly have taken self-defense classes so I can protect myself but I won't go so far as to buy a weapon that poses more of a danger to me and my family than it does to the criminal I'm supposedly going to use it on.

 

[necritan]

wow, way to completely twist what i said.

and did you miss the part where i said i support the 2nd amendment?

I stand corrected.....

 

[necritan]

Eightball, I was making the point that I've been the victim of a violent crime, it wasn't a stranger who committed this crime against me therefore owning a gun wouldn't have really made me any safer.

The safety of guns is an ILLUSION pure and simple. You, as a gun owner, aren't really any safer than I am, as a none gun owner. and the reason I believe that is because if as a non-gun owner I'm more likely to be a victim why haven't a been one yet? Because crime isn't as rampant and raging as the nightly news would have us believe, not by strangers anyway.

I don't know how people function when everyday they think they could be the victim of a violent attack. I believe it's possible, I'm not blind to it and I certainly have taken self-defense classes so I can protect myself but I won't go so far as to buy a weapon that poses more of a danger to me and my family than it does to the criminal I'm supposedly going to use it on.

Have you had a gun pointed at you???? If so.....how did it make you feel???
The point is.....many crimes are prevented by the sheer introduction of lethal intent (with a gun) in a self-defense situation.....even without shots fired......simply racking a 12-gauge will make most people shit themselves.

If the safety of being armed is an illusion.....why do we have a military.....or armed police for that matter???

I saw an interesting video a couple of days ago where a couple of guys were beating the shit out of a cop in the UK.......cuzz they are "by law" without firearms.

Also....who here has said that they obsess over home-invasion...or being raped on a minute by minute basis???? You are embelishing....and twisting things.

The anti-gun crowd is afraid of guns due to inexposure or brainwashing.....plain and simple....these are the same people who wouldn't run into a burning house to save a life.....or put themselves into harms way like a LEO would do. They are sheep........


Truly....honestly.....I could care less if any of you gun-grabbers own a gun or ever try to own a gun......

I believe that the mindset I see here are people who shouldn't own guns......because all I hear is emotion and feelings based debate.....rather than using logic and fact.

Emotionally unsound people like Kirt , Silence and the gang WOULD be a danger to thenselves and their families with a gun in their home.....and I applaud them for choosing to be unarmed for all of our safety.

I however am safe with my RIGHTfull ownership of guns.......and I would appreciate it if emotional voter's wouldn't f#$% with my RIGHTS.

Truly.....in all honesty....I could care less if any of you gun "rights" takers died by the hand of some crazed criminal......it would just help to prove our point.