Obama and Biden very anti Gun owner, and Gun Rights .

[AllieBaba]

I'm with you.

 

[necritan]

Oh.....and regarding the subject of "What's a tool....and what's a weapon?"

My Czechoslovakian CZ 75 SP01 pistol.....while commonly loaded with and known to launch Speer Gold Dot 124 grain + p 9mm bullets at lightning speeds from it's 4.72 '' barrel.....when un-loaded....due to its all steel frame w/ extended dust cover and integrated 1913 accessory rail....weighs in at 2.6 pounds.....and as a result....makes a helluva club........shit....I bet I could hit homeruns with it.

 

[greenpartyaz]

Have you had a gun pointed at you???? If so.....how did it make you feel???
The point is.....many crimes are prevented by the sheer introduction of lethal intent (with a gun) in a self-defense situation.....even without shots fired......simply racking a 12-gauge will make most people shit themselves.

If the safety of being armed is an illusion.....why do we have a military.....or armed police for that matter???

I saw an interesting video a couple of days ago where a couple of guys were beating the shit out of a cop in the UK.......cuzz they are "by law" without firearms.

Also....who here has said that they obsess over home-invasion...or being raped on a minute by minute basis???? You are embelishing....and twisting things.

The anti-gun crowd is afraid of guns due to inexposure or brainwashing.....plain and simple....these are the same people who wouldn't run into a burning house to save a life.....or put themselves into harms way like a LEO would do. They are sheep........


Truly....honestly.....I could care less if any of you gun-grabbers own a gun or ever try to own a gun......

I believe that the mindset I see here are people who shouldn't own guns......because all I hear is emotion and feelings based debate.....rather than using logic and fact.

Emotionally unsound people like Kirt , Silence and the gang WOULD be a danger to thenselves and their families with a gun in their home.....and I applaud them for choosing to be unarmed for all of our safety.

I however am safe with my RIGHTfull ownership of guns.......and I would appreciate it if emotional voter's wouldn't f#$% with my RIGHTS.

Truly.....in all honesty....I could care less if any of you gun "rights" takers died by the hand of some crazed criminal......it would just help to prove our point.

The last few posts are the same tired talking points the NRA likes to put out in the media and other places after a tragedy like this occurs. It is just a diversionary tactic by LaPierre and his goons. If you really care about senseless gun deaths like this one; you would advocate holding the gun owners responsible for leaving the firearms in places where children can access them? I don't hear you making an example of this "responsible" gun owner; why it is important to keep your firearms locked up and out of the reach of children. You just divert the issue, and throw a bunch of statistics out there that have nothing to do with this. Why should a 5 year old be taught about handling guns at such an early age? Are you trying to implant something in their fragile little minds at such an early age? And second, what do you say to the mother of the child Wayne? The father should be proud to exercise his second amendment right to keep a loaded gun in the house? Do you have any children? What if you were "exercising" your 2nd amendment right, by leaving your Glock on the night stand only to have your son or daughter remove the safety, and have the weapon discharge? You would be in real psychological confusion. So Wayne, what do you tell the mother of the small infant?

 

[necritan]

The last few posts are the same tired talking points the NRA likes to put out in the media and other places after a tragedy like this occurs. It is just a diversionary tactic by LaPierre and his goons. If you really care about senseless gun deaths like this one; you would advocate holding the gun owners responsible for leaving the firearms in places where children can access them? I don't hear you making an example of this "responsible" gun owner; why it is important to keep your firearms locked up and out of the reach of children. You just divert the issue, and throw a bunch of statistics out there that have nothing to do with this. Why should a 5 year old be taught about handling guns at such an early age? Are you trying to implant something in their fragile little minds at such an early age? And second, what do you say to the mother of the child Wayne? The father should be proud to exercise his second amendment right to keep a loaded gun in the house? Do you have any children? What if you were "exercising" your 2nd amendment right, by leaving your Glock on the night stand only to have your son or daughter remove the safety, and have the weapon discharge? You would be in real psychological confusion. So Wayne, what do you tell the mother of the small infant?

First off.....Glocks dont have a manual safety.....Im sure you already knew that though.....being an expert on all things gun related...Im amazed you dont know this.

Second......its a felony if someone leaves their firearm out and a child gains access to it.

Thirdly.....look around your house.....and really use your brain.....you will find 4000 things that could kill your kids.

Bathtubs....knives...electrical outlets.....pills...garbage disposal.....stairs....open door to street......toilet....thumbtacks.....rope....plasticbags....cleaning supplies....open second story windows.....powertools....blah blah blah

I feel badly for the loss of a child as the result of negligent parents......but this is a pathetic arguement for gun control......like I said before.....You antigunners ride on emotion and feelings alone....and throw logic to way side.

And finally.....I dont keep my home defense weapon on a nightstand......."Hey bad guy....hey kids....have at it while Im sleeping"......nor do I keep my gun in "Condition 1"...(google that).....

 

[strollingbones]

good morning i got a neg or neuter reputation comment for "bringing violence to my family"....first let me explain my family...i did not know it there were people who did not have guns in their homes till i was in my early twenties. in my father's house, a gun was within reach at all times...never more than 3 ft from him...every room of the house...no violence came to our home due to that. when a man tryed to break into my home with my child and i only here...and this was before cordless, cells etc...had one phone in one room that i could not reach without him seeing me.....so i guess you think i should have let him break in....and do what he wanted to do.....well you can think that....


as for the negative or neuter rep you gave me....i think that was just a wee bit childish...i am a liberal...did you know that...liberals own guns...big surprise. but your leaving bad rep was misuse (I think) of the system. the thread is the place to discuss issues...i didnt realize the rep button was to get revengue.

 

[Silence]

Have you had a gun pointed at you???? If so.....how did it make you feel???
The point is.....many crimes are prevented by the sheer introduction of lethal intent (with a gun) in a self-defense situation.....even without shots fired......simply racking a 12-gauge will make most people shit themselves.

If the safety of being armed is an illusion.....why do we have a military.....or armed police for that matter???

I saw an interesting video a couple of days ago where a couple of guys were beating the shit out of a cop in the UK.......cuzz they are "by law" without firearms.

Also....who here has said that they obsess over home-invasion...or being raped on a minute by minute basis???? You are embelishing....and twisting things.

The anti-gun crowd is afraid of guns due to inexposure or brainwashing.....plain and simple....these are the same people who wouldn't run into a burning house to save a life.....or put themselves into harms way like a LEO would do. They are sheep........


Truly....honestly.....I could care less if any of you gun-grabbers own a gun or ever try to own a gun......

I believe that the mindset I see here are people who shouldn't own guns......because all I hear is emotion and feelings based debate.....rather than using logic and fact.

Emotionally unsound people like Kirt , Silence and the gang WOULD be a danger to thenselves and their families with a gun in their home.....and I applaud them for choosing to be unarmed for all of our safety.

I however am safe with my RIGHTfull ownership of guns.......and I would appreciate it if emotional voter's wouldn't f#$% with my RIGHTS.

Truly.....in all honesty....I could care less if any of you gun "rights" takers died by the hand of some crazed criminal......it would just help to prove our point.

I have in fact had a gun pointed at me. I was 17 and the person holding the gun was my father. He had once again flown into a rage at my mother and gathered us all in the living room, pointing the gun one by one at us and telling us he was going to kill us all. I was scared shitless.

I don't think I've said once, or seen anyone else say that you don't have the RIGHT to own guns. I certainly support the 2nd Amendement and I fully support law abiding citizens right to own guns. What I don't support is lax laws which allow guns to fall into the hands of criminals and unstable people.

and like Obama said last night "don't tell me we can't uphold the 2nd Amendement while keeping AK-47's out of the hands of criminals"

 

[busara]

Oh.....and regarding the subject of "What's a tool....and what's a weapon?"

My Czechoslovakian CZ 75 SP01 pistol.....while commonly loaded with and known to launch Speer Gold Dot 124 grain + p 9mm bullets at lightning speeds from it's 4.72 '' barrel.....when un-loaded....due to its all steel frame w/ extended dust cover and integrated 1913 accessory rail....weighs in at 2.6 pounds.....and as a result....makes a helluva club........shit....I bet I could hit homeruns with it.

the argument wasnt whether or not a weapon is a tool, it's whether a weapon should be treated the same as any other tool. if there is no difference between a weapon and another tool, (like a bat, breadmaker, riding mower), there should be no restrictions whatsoever on it. by your thinking, a gun, rpg, landmine, tank, F-15, nuclear missle, whatever, would just be any other tool and should have no restrictions, right?

 

[sealybobo]

I'm with you.

Show me they are anti guns? Did you even listen last night? Wanting to take ak 47's away from gangs in East LA is not being anti gun.

No one wants to mess with your guns. Relax.

This is right wing bullshit.

 

[editec]

What I don't support is lax laws which allow guns to fall into the hands of criminals and unstable people.

We don't have lax laws, so much as we have lax enforcement, I think.

We live in a nation where holding a pound of hemp for personal consumption could easily get you more hard time than killing somebody.

Seriously, punks kill people with guns and are out in five to seven years!

Why?

I realy cannot explain it, but our value system is completely forking crazy.

I don't blame that problem on gun owners, or the NRA.

I'm not sure who to blame to be honest.

Seems to me if you willfully kill somebody, and I don't care if you're under 18 or not, you ought to at minimum spend the rest of your life in solidtary confinement.

I had some assclown East Boston punk try to shoot me about ten years ago.

Why?

No real reason. To build up his rep. as a man not to be messed with I suppose. I threaten him by not being impressed by his tough guy act, so he went home and got a popgun to off me.

It jammed when he tried to shoot me with it and he ran away.

You think I wouldn't drop that son of a bitch in heartbeat if I thought I could get away with it?

I'd be doing the world a public service as I have no doubt -- NO DOUBT WHATEVER! -- this twisted little puke will kill somebody for no particular reason, sooner or later.

Had he killed me?

He'd probably be on the streets by now.

 

[Silence]

editec, I agree, laws governing punishment for violent crimes should be enforced more strictly.

No one remedy will cure the ills of our society, it has to be done in conjunction with MANY efforts, education, jobs training, gun control laws, harsher penalties for violent crimes, etc.

Until we give the poorest in our society an alternative to crime they will continue to commit crimes because they see no way out and they will take what they don't have by any means possible.

It's bullshit and I certainly don't suscribe to the idea that being poor automatically means you have no future but it's harder to climb out of a hole that is three generations deep when their is no ladder to climb up.

 

[KGB]

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

Let's go for two million!

how did all those guns suddenly jump out from their storage places & kill those people?


It should read, 1 million Americans have been killed by criminals using guns since 1960....

I say, ban the criminals, not the weapons....

 

[Shogun]

you like posting pictures eh? you are posting information which has nothing to do with what i'm stating. a baseball bat is not made to be a weapon. a yo-yo isnt made to be a weapon, even though it used to be. a barbie doll could be used as a weapon. doesnt mean it was made to be one. how many different ways can i state this? a gun should be treated different than these other common objects because it is made to be a weapon. just like an rpg, a tank, a land mine .....

im not saying a bat cant be used as one. just that bat isnt made to be one. so what are you trying to argue here? that a bat should have restrictions like guns do?

Indeed, Im one of those "EVIDENCE > rhetorical bullshit" sorta dudes..

made to be a weapon or not a BASEBALL BAT becomes such in the hands of a person who decides to wield it as one. It doesn't matter at all if the intention of a steak knife is to cut a t-bone when it's sticking out of the chest of a victim.

so, no. a gun should not be treated differently than any other tool... HAMMER. AXE. KNIFE. etc. Your opinion is noted and trashed.

 

[Eightball]

editec, I agree, laws governing punishment for violent crimes should be enforced more strictly.

No one remedy will cure the ills of our society, it has to be done in conjunction with MANY efforts, education, jobs training, gun control laws, harsher penalties for violent crimes, etc.

Until we give the poorest in our society an alternative to crime they will continue to commit crimes because they see no way out and they will take what they don't have by any means possible.

It's bullshit and I certainly don't suscribe to the idea that being poor automatically means you have no future but it's harder to climb out of a hole that is three generations deep when their is no ladder to climb up.

Awe..........The Poor...........They are just victims of our terrible unbalanced society that won't level the playing field and do a 1917 Bolshevik revolution and strip the wealthy of their ungodly gains and riches and share it with the have nots that can't help being criminals to feed their babies and spouses.

Thats the same logic that won't brand illegal aliens, as criminals but all the illegal aliens or more P.C. illegal immigrants.

Our poor when compared to the "poor" of the Third World Countries are not poor at all. How many poor in the third world have cars, T.V.'s, welfare checks, Medi-caid......public clinics.......rescue missions.......Methadone clinics......

I've been poor economically, but never poor in spirit. Thats the difference between you and me Silence.

As much as life knocks us down, we can still be "wealthy" in spirit, and see current life as a "glass half full" and not "half empty" or pessimism.

I've stood in government food lines at churches and got my government cheese, rice, butter......etc..

You have this pity, on folks that criminalize their lives cause they don't have "enough". There are so many public agencies in this country both on the Federal and local level that not one adult, nor one child should go hungry. Those that you see that push grocery cars are often in and out of rescue missions, half-way houses, etc... and often by their own will refuse to stay in programs....willfully and sometimes because they have hurt themselves irreparibly due to drugs.

If people are willing to get with "programs" and "submitt" to being shown or guided, there is help for them to not be the "poor".

It just makes me sick to read your post of how the criminal element is our society's fault...........therefore, we shouldn't protect ourselves from them if they break into our home............We are the bad ones for not emptying out our wallets and going hungry so that they won't need to rob or hurt anyone.

 

[editec]

This puck wasn't poor.

He was pulling down about $30K a year blabbing for MBNA.

No this kid's problem was he is a stupid punk, that's all.

Too many mafia movies or something.



There was a line of people waiting to kick his sorry ass. after that.

First of all for assulting the girl, secondly for bringing a gun to a party, and finally (and of least importance, too) for trying to off me.

He got his head slammed into a bar repeatedly before he went to prison.

A full bar full of people were there when it happened, I might add.

The D.A. refused to charge him for trying to shoot me for "a lack of evidence" even though there was a witness who saw the whole event. That particular D.A. and I weren't exactly on good speaking terms.

Anyway, the little puke came back with the cops to get the person who hammered his head agains the bar repeatedly arrested, but oddly nobody in the bar noticed his head being slammed on the bar three or four times.

He ended up getting a year in prison for assulting some girl at the same party, and then he skeedattled back to East Boston, I expect, after he did his time to a place where people appreciate and fear gun toting punks.

 

[Silence]

once again, someone reading what they want me to say instead of what I actually said

You have the right to protect yourself, you have the right to own a gun....you also have a responsibility to the people in your community to want and demand that precautions be taken to ensure that ONLY law abiding citizens have access to guns.

Being poor isn't an excuse for being a criminal. I grew up poor and abused and I faced all the things that many of the most hardened criminal use as excuses for their behavior. You can allow your past to help or hinder your future BUT if you see no future for yourself other than more pain and more suffering what is the point of trying? I was lucky in that I had a friend who's mother gave me guidance and someone to look up to. I didn't have that at home, I stuck with an abusive father and a mother to afraid for her life and the lives of her children to escape. Not everyone has the benefit of seeing that there is more out there than what is right in front of them. They get stuck in a cycle of drugs, abuse, crime and violence and that is difficult, if not impossible sometimes to overcome.

All I am saying is that if we have the capability and the capacity to offer a way out why not do it? Why not open a door instead of slamming it shut? Why not offer a hand up instead of just another hand out which only last until it's gone and they come looking for more only to find the well is dry.

What is the phrase?

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself forever. (or something like that)

I don't believe in something for nothing and I don't believe in using your past as a crutch but I also believe that there are certain segements of the population who face much harder obstacles and I'm all for doing my part to make those obstacles a little easier to overcome, for the betterment of society as a whole not because I feel pity for them. But because in helping them I also help myself.

 

[AllieBaba]

the argument wasnt whether or not a weapon is a tool, it's whether a weapon should be treated the same as any other tool. if there is no difference between a weapon and another tool, (like a bat, breadmaker, riding mower), there should be no restrictions whatsoever on it. by your thinking, a gun, rpg, landmine, tank, F-15, nuclear missle, whatever, would just be any other tool and should have no restrictions, right?

That's just silly. All tools are treated differently. You have to have a CDL to drive a truck commercially. You have to have a license to use explosives. YOu have to be certified to handle PESTICIDES.

Guns are no different, and just because people are scared of them doesn't mean they should be removed from the rest of us. And I don't hear much squawking about reasonable limitations on their sale and use. But we have laws to keep us from killing each other, and changing the accessability of guns for law abiding citizens isn't going to make any difference, except perhaps to make those who do abide by the laws less safe.

I have still not heard any one of the control freaks who think NOBODY should be able to have guns explain why the crime rate ESCALATES in tandem with higher gun restrictions in US cities.

 

[necritan]

the argument wasnt whether or not a weapon is a tool, it's whether a weapon should be treated the same as any other tool. if there is no difference between a weapon and another tool, (like a bat, breadmaker, riding mower), there should be no restrictions whatsoever on it. by your thinking, a gun, rpg, landmine, tank, F-15, nuclear missle, whatever, would just be any other tool and should have no restrictions, right?

I was just having a little fun with word games......but....

A gun "is" a weapon......and the 2nd amendment clearly protects the freedom to individual ownership of them. Although you say you agree with this.....I see many strings attached to this in your posts.

If people have a problem with the "Main" purpose of a gun......which is essentially.....a bullet launching platform.......and the bullet is designed as a penetrative wound channel maker..........then I say...."What else should I use in the event that this particular "tool" is the only feasible answer in a particular situation?????

 

[necritan]

I have in fact had a gun pointed at me. I was 17 and the person holding the gun was my father. He had once again flown into a rage at my mother and gathered us all in the living room, pointing the gun one by one at us and telling us he was going to kill us all. I was scared shitless.

I don't think I've said once, or seen anyone else say that you don't have the RIGHT to own guns. I certainly support the 2nd Amendement and I fully support law abiding citizens right to own guns. What I don't support is lax laws which allow guns to fall into the hands of criminals and unstable people.

and like Obama said last night "don't tell me we can't uphold the 2nd Amendement while keeping AK-47's out of the hands of criminals"

What a horrible thing for one human.....especially a father.....to do to another. That is criminal in every way.

However.....this is not even remotely common.

Long guns are used rarely in criminal cases.....an AK is a long gun by definition.

We have background checks in place......what else is needed to establish a law abiding citizen......guns getting into the wrong hands is due to importation of illegal guns.....selling of stolen guns from idiot gun owners....etc.

Education and exposure to firearms function and safety.....rather than sweeping the existence of them under the rug like they are a dirty secret....could do a great deal of help to prevent : accidental child death , accidental gunowner death , unsafe keeping of firearms while not attending them.....and a safer home and society from criminal intent.

 

[necritan]

Show me they are anti guns? Did you even listen last night? Wanting to take ak 47's away from gangs in East LA is not being anti gun.

No one wants to mess with your guns. Relax.

This is right wing bullshit.

No....this is "Rights" shit......and it is important.

On what plan shall they take the "evil" AK's from the gang-bangers......and can you tell me how many gang related murders are commited with AK's????

They want to re-do the Assault Weapon ban......plain and simple.....this takes them away from the law aiding citizens......but....I'm guessing thats ok with you.....cuzz "Assault Weapon" sounds scary....so get rid of em....right????

 

[necritan]

We don't have lax laws, so much as we have lax enforcement, I think.

We live in a nation where holding a pound of hemp for personal consumption could easily get you more hard time than killing somebody.

Seriously, punks kill people with guns and are out in five to seven years!

Why?

I realy cannot explain it, but our value system is completely forking crazy.

I don't blame that problem on gun owners, or the NRA.

I'm not sure who to blame to be honest.

Seems to me if you willfully kill somebody, and I don't care if you're under 18 or not, you ought to at minimum spend the rest of your life in solidtary confinement.

I had some assclown East Boston punk try to shoot me about ten years ago.

Why?

No real reason. To build up his rep. as a man not to be messed with I suppose. I threaten him by not being impressed by his tough guy act, so he went home and got a popgun to off me.

It jammed when he tried to shoot me with it and he ran away.

You think I wouldn't drop that son of a bitch in heartbeat if I thought I could get away with it?

I'd be doing the world a public service as I have no doubt -- NO DOUBT WHATEVER! -- this twisted little puke will kill somebody for no particular reason, sooner or later.

Had he killed me?

He'd probably be on the streets by now.

Had you been armed at the time....dont know if you were......but had you been......he would be dead....and it would have been justified. Crime comes with some dangers too.....not enough however in this day and age.

I agree with you 10000000% on criminals being sentenced to lightly.

How does it make sense ....hypothetically speaking.....that a woman....while resisting being raped...shoots her attacker and gets sued or charged with manslaughter....while Johnny Criminal kills someone and gets out in 7-10?????