Obama Just Compared Christianity With Islam…At National Prayer Breakfast

[Paperman299]

It's not an analogy. It's a passage explaining that being a good slave is being a good Christian, which is about as pro-slavery as Christianity can get.

Of course, Christians today don't advocate slavery, but telling me mid-19th Century Christians had no New Testament passages to justify their position is incorrect.

Yes it it, I can't help if you can't read. It clearly says be obedient to God as you are to your master. If you can't see this, this is your problem, not mine. As I said before, there are passages that could be put forth to both advocate slavery and abolition in the Bible. The fact remains, slavery predates Christianity. It was Christians, White Christians specifically, I know, the horror, that founded the abolition movement on religious principles. It was the British Empire that effectively ended the global slave trade. So Christianity is not responsible for slavery, but it is responsible for ending slavery in the Western world and most of the world all together. though unfortunately it continues today in parts of Africa, Muslim areas more specifically. But the existence of slavery cannot be blamed on Christianity. Without Christianity, there would have been no abolition movement. And as I said before, the Bible is not a political manifesto. Christ sought salvation for all mankind, slave and free, gentile and jew, greek and roman, man and woman. He brought us something far more important than abolition in this world, he gave us eternal life in the next.

This is sort of like saying a manual on how to swim doesn't advocate swimming. Claiming a book on How To Slavery doesn't advocate slavery is some serious cognitive dissonance. And we're limiting ourselves to the New Testament right now, of course...

As far as your other points, hrm. The British Empire started the Atlantic Slave Trade Triangle. They needed African slaves because Native American ones were dying too fast. Bringing over African slaves didn't save the Native Americans, though. Christians continued their campaign to annihilate them, if not physically, then culturally with aggressive efforts to erase their identity and "civilize" them.

Christianity gets no points for not inventing slavery. That's not even a defense. "Hey, it's not like I'm the first guy to ever murder!" Christianity's shame is not cleared away because many abolitionists were also Christians. Southern pastors argued just as vigorously, and with just as much theological merit, and over the next 150 years it would be the most religious states that would most bitterly cling to institutionalized racism.

Your verse isn't a verse on "how to slavery", it is a verse on how slaves should obey God as they obey their master. So it doesn't apply at all. There is no cognitive dissonance. You are just proscribing your preconceived prejudices against Christianity, than trying to rig together text that in reality doesn't fit your claims at all.

Slavery, even in it's chattel form, existed prior to the British with the Arabs, Spaniards, Portuguese, and others. This also doesn't include the several European Christian nations that had no slaves, and the those same nations had many who were were enslaved by the Ottomans. The British didn't have a monopoly on slavery. Though their Empire is responsible for ending the trade globally. This is getting off topic though. The point is Christians don't have a monopoly on the slave trade, though Christians are behind Abolition. This is what makes Christianity unique, not that it created slavery but it gave birth to the concept that ended globally. Without Christianity, there would have not been an abolition movement. Yet you don't address this.

As I said, salvation is a far more important issue, not material and earthly political issues like abolition. Your issue is your pride, which is inflamed by your ardent materialism and humanism. You think you have a greater moral grasp of our universe and more compassion for man than our Lord, who is all knowing and omnipotent, which is unbridled arrogance.

Fine. A verse that begins "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling," is not an instruction to slaves saying God wants them to be loyal, fearful slaves, but something that is not that.

Absolutely no one is claiming that Christianity started slavery. Why you keep bringing up these other polities as if their actions absolve Christianity for its massive hand in slavery is beyond me. It's one of the religion's most incredible traits: a complete refusal to simply and straightforwardly face up to its own blemishes. We can't even bring Christianity's role in slavery up in passing without triggering shrill protestations and wild attempts to shift blame. "What about Mauritania? What about the Portugese?" What about YOU? Why can't even one Christian have the moral courage to stand up and admit to the baser history of his creed, without the usual barrage of rationalizations, disclaimers, and self-exculpations?

What's really outrageous here is that you can't even address Christianity's historic role in the slave trade without trying to snatch credit for ending it. If Christianity was truly the animating factor in ending slavery, it damn well took its time, don't you think? Judaism existed with slavery for thousands of years. Christianity had few dissenters in nearly two millennia. It was only when we reached the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, that rationality could begin to reform Christianity. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Christian institutions stopped spit-roasting these people long enough to listen and for some of those ideas to penetrate. But Christians today certainly don't get to absolve their institutions by bringing up those Christians who forced the other Christians to stop practicing Biblical slavery, based on ideas that originated outside of religious thought.

Now at this point, you are cutting out phrases with no context, and not giving the full sentence, honestly, you are getting more pathetic by the minute with your arguments. This isn't even a proper analysis. You are just are taking one phrase out of context and ignoring the full thing which presents it as an analogy. Be obedient to Christ as you are to your master. This phrase is no way says you should enslave others. It doesn't condemn slavery nor promote it, rather it is a verse about being obedient to your heavenly lord as you would be to your earthly lord if you were a slave.

You are the one that denies Christianity's role in slavery, which was to end it. All other societies practiced slavery, this existence without slavery is a new and modern concept, a western christian concept. So yes, lets talk about Christianity's role with slavery. No one denies Christians enslaved others, but all other peoples throughout history did as well. Whether it be the Papal Bull against Slavery or the Abolition Movement started in Great Britain and the US, these were Christian based concepts that spread throughout the rest of the world. It is ironic someone so fixated on slavery condemns the the Western Christian society which moved to eliminate it world wide. So no, I don't feel guilty about slavery at all, and Christian Civilization has no need to be specifically condemned for it, when it is going on still in non-christian areas of the world. I come from a country in which there were no slaves, except for our people taken by the Ottomans. So you aren't going to brow beat me for something I have no guilt for.

And what you don't understand, and I keep hammering this point home while you don't listen. Christ came here for far more important matters than an earthly issue like slavery, he came here for eternal salvation. We are all slaves to sin, the worst kind of slavery, and Christ offers this freedom from the bonds of sin to all mankind regardless of their earthly position in life. There is nothing more loving or caring than this. But you can't recognize this

There's no sleight-of-hand here. I'm the one who originally pasted the quote, which could not be more plain in what it says. But I'm done talking about it. You HAVE to believe it doesn't say what it says. Your religion demands it of you that you see what you see. I get it. There are five lights, Picard...

I suppose Christianity doesn't need to feel bad about the Inquisition either, since other religions tortured and killed. Christianity is absolved of responsibility of the Salem witch trials as well, since there have been other violent religious panics. Feel that worrying doubt melt away! Heck, I need to get down to the nearest prison, and let the warden know all those men can go free; other people have also been committing those crimes!

Btw you can just stop preaching to me. The precepts of your personal faith are not relevant to the discussion. If you would like to offer your theological bent to Joseph Kony and his Lord's Resistance Army, the Christian sect that enslaved more than 5000 children, that would be great.

 

[Jroc]

Yes it it, I can't help if you can't read. It clearly says be obedient to God as you are to your master. If you can't see this, this is your problem, not mine. As I said before, there are passages that could be put forth to both advocate slavery and abolition in the Bible. The fact remains, slavery predates Christianity. It was Christians, White Christians specifically, I know, the horror, that founded the abolition movement on religious principles. It was the British Empire that effectively ended the global slave trade. So Christianity is not responsible for slavery, but it is responsible for ending slavery in the Western world and most of the world all together. though unfortunately it continues today in parts of Africa, Muslim areas more specifically. But the existence of slavery cannot be blamed on Christianity. Without Christianity, there would have been no abolition movement. And as I said before, the Bible is not a political manifesto. Christ sought salvation for all mankind, slave and free, gentile and jew, greek and roman, man and woman. He brought us something far more important than abolition in this world, he gave us eternal life in the next.

This is sort of like saying a manual on how to swim doesn't advocate swimming. Claiming a book on How To Slavery doesn't advocate slavery is some serious cognitive dissonance. And we're limiting ourselves to the New Testament right now, of course...

As far as your other points, hrm. The British Empire started the Atlantic Slave Trade Triangle. They needed African slaves because Native American ones were dying too fast. Bringing over African slaves didn't save the Native Americans, though. Christians continued their campaign to annihilate them, if not physically, then culturally with aggressive efforts to erase their identity and "civilize" them.

Christianity gets no points for not inventing slavery. That's not even a defense. "Hey, it's not like I'm the first guy to ever murder!" Christianity's shame is not cleared away because many abolitionists were also Christians. Southern pastors argued just as vigorously, and with just as much theological merit, and over the next 150 years it would be the most religious states that would most bitterly cling to institutionalized racism.

Your verse isn't a verse on "how to slavery", it is a verse on how slaves should obey God as they obey their master. So it doesn't apply at all. There is no cognitive dissonance. You are just proscribing your preconceived prejudices against Christianity, than trying to rig together text that in reality doesn't fit your claims at all.

Slavery, even in it's chattel form, existed prior to the British with the Arabs, Spaniards, Portuguese, and others. This also doesn't include the several European Christian nations that had no slaves, and the those same nations had many who were were enslaved by the Ottomans. The British didn't have a monopoly on slavery. Though their Empire is responsible for ending the trade globally. This is getting off topic though. The point is Christians don't have a monopoly on the slave trade, though Christians are behind Abolition. This is what makes Christianity unique, not that it created slavery but it gave birth to the concept that ended globally. Without Christianity, there would have not been an abolition movement. Yet you don't address this.

As I said, salvation is a far more important issue, not material and earthly political issues like abolition. Your issue is your pride, which is inflamed by your ardent materialism and humanism. You think you have a greater moral grasp of our universe and more compassion for man than our Lord, who is all knowing and omnipotent, which is unbridled arrogance.

Fine. A verse that begins "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling," is not an instruction to slaves saying God wants them to be loyal, fearful slaves, but something that is not that.

Absolutely no one is claiming that Christianity started slavery. Why you keep bringing up these other polities as if their actions absolve Christianity for its massive hand in slavery is beyond me. It's one of the religion's most incredible traits: a complete refusal to simply and straightforwardly face up to its own blemishes. We can't even bring Christianity's role in slavery up in passing without triggering shrill protestations and wild attempts to shift blame. "What about Mauritania? What about the Portugese?" What about YOU? Why can't even one Christian have the moral courage to stand up and admit to the baser history of his creed, without the usual barrage of rationalizations, disclaimers, and self-exculpations?

What's really outrageous here is that you can't even address Christianity's historic role in the slave trade without trying to snatch credit for ending it. If Christianity was truly the animating factor in ending slavery, it damn well took its time, don't you think? Judaism existed with slavery for thousands of years. Christianity had few dissenters in nearly two millennia. It was only when we reached the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, that rationality could begin to reform Christianity. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Christian institutions stopped spit-roasting these people long enough to listen and for some of those ideas to penetrate. But Christians today certainly don't get to absolve their institutions by bringing up those Christians who forced the other Christians to stop practicing Biblical slavery, based on ideas that originated outside of religious thought.

Now at this point, you are cutting out phrases with no context, and not giving the full sentence, honestly, you are getting more pathetic by the minute with your arguments. This isn't even a proper analysis. You are just are taking one phrase out of context and ignoring the full thing which presents it as an analogy. Be obedient to Christ as you are to your master. This phrase is no way says you should enslave others. It doesn't condemn slavery nor promote it, rather it is a verse about being obedient to your heavenly lord as you would be to your earthly lord if you were a slave.

You are the one that denies Christianity's role in slavery, which was to end it. All other societies practiced slavery, this existence without slavery is a new and modern concept, a western christian concept. So yes, lets talk about Christianity's role with slavery. No one denies Christians enslaved others, but all other peoples throughout history did as well. Whether it be the Papal Bull against Slavery or the Abolition Movement started in Great Britain and the US, these were Christian based concepts that spread throughout the rest of the world. It is ironic someone so fixated on slavery condemns the the Western Christian society which moved to eliminate it world wide. So no, I don't feel guilty about slavery at all, and Christian Civilization has no need to be specifically condemned for it, when it is going on still in non-christian areas of the world. I come from a country in which there were no slaves, except for our people taken by the Ottomans. So you aren't going to brow beat me for something I have no guilt for.

And what you don't understand, and I keep hammering this point home while you don't listen. Christ came here for far more important matters than an earthly issue like slavery, he came here for eternal salvation. We are all slaves to sin, the worst kind of slavery, and Christ offers this freedom from the bonds of sin to all mankind regardless of their earthly position in life. There is nothing more loving or caring than this. But you can't recognize this

There's no sleight-of-hand here. I'm the one who originally pasted the quote, which could not be more plain in what it says. But I'm done talking about it. You HAVE to believe it doesn't say what it says. Your religion demands it of you that you see what you see. I get it. There are five lights, Picard...

I suppose Christianity doesn't need to feel bad about the Inquisition either, since other religions tortured and killed. Christianity is absolved of responsibility of the Salem witch trials as well, since there have been other violent religious panics. Feel that worrying doubt melt away! Heck, I need to get down to the nearest prison, and let the warden know all those men can go free; other people have also been committing those crimes!

Btw you can just stop preaching to me. The precepts of your personal faith are not relevant to the discussion. If you would like to offer your theological bent to Joseph Kony and his Lord's Resistance Army, the Christian sect that enslaved more than 5000 children, that would be great.

and this has what to do with what we are facing today with radical islam?

 

[nodoginnafight]

In the United States, we enjoy freedom of speech. Each individual is allowed to call these street punks whatever he or she chooses.

I just don't understand why some Americans insist on feeding their recruiting rhetoric by applying religious status to these common thugs.

 

[Jroc]

muslum....

 

[nodoginnafight]

The terrorists thank you for feeding their recruiting rhetoric.

 

[Jroc]

The terrorists thank you for feeding their recruiting rhetoric.

What is, is what is. I didn't invent the reality nor do I ignore it

 

[nodoginnafight]

The terrorists thank you for feeding their recruiting rhetoric.

What is, is what is. I didn't invent the reality nor do I ignore it

The terrorists thank you

 

[Stephanie]

Conservative Activist Star Parker: Obama Committed “Verbal Rape” on Christians at Prayer Breakfast (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, February 9, 2015, 9:36 PM

Last Thursday Barack Obama compared Christians to ISIS savages during the Annual Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC.

On Monday conservative author, columnist and activist Star Parker told Sean Hannity that President Obama’s remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week amounted to “verbal rape.” Parker explained that Obama “sucked all the energy from the room” with his “secular humanism.”

“Let me put in context then because I was in that room. It was frankly verbal rape. Oh yeah. We were not expecting it. Nobody wanted it. It was horrible to sit through. And after it was over we all felt like crap. Verbal rape is what it was.”

Via Hannity:



all of it plus video at:
Conservative Activist Star Parker Obama Committed 8220 Verbal Rape 8221 on Christians at Prayer Breakfast Video The Gateway Pundit

 

[nodoginnafight]

The terrorists thank you - oh - you changed your avi - how come?

 

[Jroc]

The terrorists thank you - oh - you changed your avi - how come?

Nah really they thank idiots like Obama for defending them

 

[nodoginnafight]

yeah - that's why Abdullah is taking the same tact .....

If it means attacking Obama - you'll support the terrorists.

Nice .......

 

[BlindBoo]

Conservative Activist Star Parker: Obama Committed “Verbal Rape” on Christians at Prayer Breakfast (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, February 9, 2015, 9:36 PM

Last Thursday Barack Obama compared Christians to ISIS savages during the Annual Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC.

On Monday conservative author, columnist and activist Star Parker told Sean Hannity that President Obama’s remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week amounted to “verbal rape.” Parker explained that Obama “sucked all the energy from the room” with his “secular humanism.”

“Let me put in context then because I was in that room. It was frankly verbal rape. Oh yeah. We were not expecting it. Nobody wanted it. It was horrible to sit through. And after it was over we all felt like crap. Verbal rape is what it was.”

Via Hannity:



all of it plus video at:
Conservative Activist Star Parker Obama Committed 8220 Verbal Rape 8221 on Christians at Prayer Breakfast Video The Gateway Pundit

Hannity???? Now that's entertainment.

 

[Jroc]

yeah - that's why Abdullah is taking the same tact .....

If it means attacking Obama - you'll support the terrorists.

Nice .......

I believe like the Kurds they are still waiting for military supplies from Obama. He's kinda slow at that stuff you know

 

[Stephanie]

Conservative Activist Star Parker: Obama Committed “Verbal Rape” on Christians at Prayer Breakfast (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, February 9, 2015, 9:36 PM

Last Thursday Barack Obama compared Christians to ISIS savages during the Annual Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC.

On Monday conservative author, columnist and activist Star Parker told Sean Hannity that President Obama’s remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week amounted to “verbal rape.” Parker explained that Obama “sucked all the energy from the room” with his “secular humanism.”

“Let me put in context then because I was in that room. It was frankly verbal rape. Oh yeah. We were not expecting it. Nobody wanted it. It was horrible to sit through. And after it was over we all felt like crap. Verbal rape is what it was.”

Via Hannity:



all of it plus video at:
Conservative Activist Star Parker Obama Committed 8220 Verbal Rape 8221 on Christians at Prayer Breakfast Video The Gateway Pundit

Hannity???? Now that's entertainment.

You don't want to watch what she has to say, no skin off anyone's ass

 

[BlindBoo]

Conservative Activist Star Parker: Obama Committed “Verbal Rape” on Christians at Prayer Breakfast (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, February 9, 2015, 9:36 PM

Last Thursday Barack Obama compared Christians to ISIS savages during the Annual Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC.

On Monday conservative author, columnist and activist Star Parker told Sean Hannity that President Obama’s remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week amounted to “verbal rape.” Parker explained that Obama “sucked all the energy from the room” with his “secular humanism.”

“Let me put in context then because I was in that room. It was frankly verbal rape. Oh yeah. We were not expecting it. Nobody wanted it. It was horrible to sit through. And after it was over we all felt like crap. Verbal rape is what it was.”

Via Hannity:



all of it plus video at:
Conservative Activist Star Parker Obama Committed 8220 Verbal Rape 8221 on Christians at Prayer Breakfast Video The Gateway Pundit

Hannity???? Now that's entertainment.

You don't want to watch what she has to say, no skin off anyone's ass

Bwhahahahahaha, Whenever I want to be amused I turn on Hannity's show.

 

[nodoginnafight]

yeah - that's why Abdullah is taking the same tact .....

If it means attacking Obama - you'll support the terrorists.

Nice .......

I believe like the Kurds they are still waiting for military supplies from Obama. He's kinda slow at that stuff you know

If you want to argue Obama has not been decisive enough, that's a different argument. And it's one I substantially agree with.

Doesn't change the fact that denying the these terrorists any religious status is a smart thing.

 

[Stephanie]

Conservative Activist Star Parker: Obama Committed “Verbal Rape” on Christians at Prayer Breakfast (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, February 9, 2015, 9:36 PM

Last Thursday Barack Obama compared Christians to ISIS savages during the Annual Prayer Breakfast in Washington DC.

On Monday conservative author, columnist and activist Star Parker told Sean Hannity that President Obama’s remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week amounted to “verbal rape.” Parker explained that Obama “sucked all the energy from the room” with his “secular humanism.”

“Let me put in context then because I was in that room. It was frankly verbal rape. Oh yeah. We were not expecting it. Nobody wanted it. It was horrible to sit through. And after it was over we all felt like crap. Verbal rape is what it was.”

Via Hannity:



all of it plus video at:
Conservative Activist Star Parker Obama Committed 8220 Verbal Rape 8221 on Christians at Prayer Breakfast Video The Gateway Pundit

Hannity???? Now that's entertainment.

You don't want to watch what she has to say, no skin off anyone's ass

Bwhahahahahaha, Whenever I want to be amused I turn on Hannity's show.

and when we want to be entertained we turn to you. carry on looking a fool

 

[Kondor3]

Nobody's advocating perpetual war... merely Realism, as this pertains to Islam, and perpetual watchfulness, and readiness to preempt and intervene as necessary.

We've had some kind of conflict with the Islamic World since 1991. That's about as close to Perpetual as you get.

We've had some kind of conflict with the Islamic World since 1801, which is a little closer to Perpetual...

"...To the shores of Tripoli..."

 

[nodoginnafight]

Lot of sidetrack arguing going on (which is fine) but none of it changes the fact that denying the terrorists any religious status is very smart.

 

[TooTall]

Nowhere in the OP article did I see where President Obama "compared" Christianity with Islam! He was simply stating a fact about the history of Christianity.

We did the same thing 800 years ago is about as clear a comparison as one can make.

Who is we?

The crusaders were a defensive posture as a result of Islams push into the Med and points abroad.

-Geaux

The WE Obama referred to was Christians.