Obamacare - the Democrats' 2014 Albatross

[Meister]

No offense, but your ideology prevents you from supporting a simplified plan that would tax HC providers and equity owners, who benefit from more customers and cheap labor, and simply provide tax credits to workers w/o HC, and have no mandate. Additionally, the govt could support high risk pools to protect people who are denied coverage when they change insurors. There was a way to provide access for workers, but the gop cannot ideologically support it, and prior to the TPM, they were open and even admitted there was a growing problem of inequitable distribution of benefits. (I realize u are not strictly a goper, but the gop is not unlike you on this issue)

There's no reason to take the Wal-Mart stock from the Waltons, in fact even the dems have no interest in doing. There's no wealth redistribution going on in this country. But so long as its heresey in the gop to raise taxes to provide a benefit like HC or education from people who are willign to work, the gop will have difficulty in winning natl elections.

This does not HAVE to depend on taxes or other expenses passed to the taxpayer.

What is wrong with business or educational loans to teach financial responsibility and planning?

If this takes work to manage, that creates more jobs for people to manage existing resources BETTER to PAY for health care and education. (instead of wasting twice as much public money SPENT per state on failed prison systems after the fact, when these resources could be LENT into education on the preventative side) Why not create campuses around jobs and education, training nurses and doctors and other service providers in exchange for serving the public to earn credits or money toward their education? Why not create jobs for lawyers or law school interns collecting debts and damages owed to taxpayers for crime or corruption, and use that money to fund services?

Because since the 1960s, we've chosen to operate on a system whereby HC insurance is part of a worker's benefits. In the 1960s, we came close to single payor, as that was what the rest of the industrial economies were going to, but the Big 3 automakers said, no, this is an employer's responsibilty to his employees.

In 2000, we had an election. One issue was whether this system was broken. The gop proposed, as do you, that employees should now pay out of pocket. The dems countered that no, this was a grab by the Kochs to engage in class warfare, and workers shouldn't have to pay on their own. 60% agreed with the dems on that issue.

I suggest that if the gop wants to win, they need to accept the will of the voters.

The will of the voters are not standing behind obamacare. The last election had everything OTHER THAN obamacare. Immigration, women's vagina, income inequality, but aca wasn't part of the mix.

 

[Oldstyle]

Surprisingly to me, Obamacare seems to be doing what it was supposed to do. Workers w/o healthcare are getting healthcare, and because of structural changes in our economy and increased productivity, there are fewer "hours" that people can work, but now they seem to be having as much income as before, and even having a net gain because they now have healthcare.

POLITICALLY, I don't know if the dems can sell that or whether the GOP will again succeed with a propaganda line "they are socializing your medicare and installing death panels."

What you need to remember, Ben is that implementation of the employer mandate has been delayed...as this latest CBO report illustrates when that does kick in people are going to lose full time jobs. The CBO's estimate are job losses of over 2 million by 2025. That may very well be an underestimation of the problem.

As for the "death panel" thing? You can call them whatever you like...but health care will have to be rationed in the future...there's no other way this system can work. Some panel will be deciding who gets care and who doesn't. That's reality...not propaganda.

I have no doubt that Obamacare is a top down governmental solution. But, the central planner perspective seems to be that there WILL BE LESS DEMAND FOR LABOR, and thus fewer fulltime jobs. That change in the economy is real and has been accellerating since the technical revolution began. I would prefer to see more of a response by private markets, but the gop intentionlly ignored this issue for 8 years, and instead propped up a bubble market.

If people work 30 hours a week instead of 40, and recieve HC via subsidies paid for by taxes on HC providers and those who own equity stocks in companines but provide no labor, I'm not bothered at all. To the extent obamacare taxes one employee to provide a subsidy to another employee, I think that's bad policy.

I find your 'death panel' reference disengenous. The gop flat out lied. Of course there's rationing. I know a young man who has a significant brain injury and Blue Cross told his family the only long term care was a nursing home (eventually turning to medicaid) or they care for him at home. Under any HC financing scheme, we will have to limit the amt of GNP going to HC. All first world economies have to do that.

But, the point is we have a two party system, and only one party is even marginally functionable at governing.

With all due respect, Ben...if you're making the point that the Democrats are "functionable" (sic) at governing my only question for you is if that IS the case then why did they do such a gawd awful job of it when they controlled the House, the Senate and the Oval Office? ObamaCare is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever written by Congress. Not because it's "socialism" or nonsense like that...but because it just doesn't WORK the way it's constructed. You accuse the GOP of lying about "death panels"? My point still stands...panels (no matter what you call them!) will have to ultimately decide what will and what will not be covered under the new system and those decisions WILL result in some people dying while others do not. Anyone who tells you that ISN'T the case isn't being honest with you.

As far as who will end up paying for ObamaCare? The bulk of that will be coming out of the pockets of the Middle Class. I've already seen my healthcare bills increase dramatically over the past two years. I'm one of those people who makes too much to qualify for subsidies so I'm screwed. Obama's promises that Middle Class yearly premiums would be going down by thousands of dollars because of the ACA were optimistic at best. You could see this one coming a mile away...

 

[HenryBHough]

The trick is to reduce your income so as to have healthcare subsidized. Get it right and the amount you have available to SPEND AS YOU SEE FIT at the end of the month will be greater than wot you'd have if you worked hard enough to pick up the whole Obamabill.

 

[RDD_1210]

In 2014, Americans have a choice. More of the same big government, high taxes, and job losses. More of the same business as usual, with record debt and a dysfunctional healthcare law that will cost millions of jobs. Or we can choose a new direction. We know where the Democrats want to take us. They support bigger government, higher taxes, and more failure. Let's vote GOP for a different, better way. To stop Obama's healthcare law from bankrupting America. For lower taxes and more freedom. And most of all, to stop this idea that America's best days are behind her. We can reclaim America. It's time to fight.
NRSC | National Republican Senatorial Committee

The brainwashing is complete. Your masters are pleased.

Too funny, I am on the phone all day everyday with John Q Public, you are NOT going to be happy in November.

Is this the same John Q Public that was going to vote Obama out in '12?

 

[RDD_1210]

The trick is to reduce your income so as to have healthcare subsidized. Get it right and the amount you have available to SPEND AS YOU SEE FIT at the end of the month will be greater than wot you'd have if you worked hard enough to pick up the whole Obamabill.

No it wouldn't. But then again reality escapes you.

 

[HenryBHough]

The trick is to reduce your income so as to have healthcare subsidized. Get it right and the amount you have available to SPEND AS YOU SEE FIT at the end of the month will be greater than wot you'd have if you worked hard enough to pick up the whole Obamabill.

No it wouldn't. But then again reality escapes you.

Actually it does. But it depends upon your income level in the first place. I DO understand that those already without income (entirely dependent upon government handouts) would have no idea how that might work.

 

[RDD_1210]

The trick is to reduce your income so as to have healthcare subsidized. Get it right and the amount you have available to SPEND AS YOU SEE FIT at the end of the month will be greater than wot you'd have if you worked hard enough to pick up the whole Obamabill.

No it wouldn't. But then again reality escapes you.

Actually it does. But it depends upon your income level in the first place. I DO understand that those already without income (entirely dependent upon government handouts) would have no idea how that might work.

Ok so tell us what income level you think your master plan would work at. Be specific.

 

[Geaux4it]

The brainwashing is complete. Your masters are pleased.

Sigh..

As an American, I'm concerned when my country drops to #12 in economic freedom under Obama's rule. As an American, I'm concerned when the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been in 40 years. As an America, I'm concerned about a healthcare law that will kill jobs and dis-incentivize work. I'm no one's servant. I'm a citizen like you. And it's time for a change.

Does it also concern you that our middle class is shrinking, while our poor population expands and our rich, get richer? Does that concern you at all?

Call me Joe concerned

Yes, we need more Democrat agendas... They are working oh so well.

-Geaux

 

[RDD_1210]

Sigh..

As an American, I'm concerned when my country drops to #12 in economic freedom under Obama's rule. As an American, I'm concerned when the labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been in 40 years. As an America, I'm concerned about a healthcare law that will kill jobs and dis-incentivize work. I'm no one's servant. I'm a citizen like you. And it's time for a change.

Does it also concern you that our middle class is shrinking, while our poor population expands and our rich, get richer? Does that concern you at all?

Call me Joe concerned

Yes, we need more Democrat agendas... They are working oh so well.

-Geaux

Ok, so it does concern you. What's the solution? Try and be specific. "Removing the dumb democrats" isn't a real answer.

 

[Antares]

The brainwashing is complete. Your masters are pleased.

Too funny, I am on the phone all day everyday with John Q Public, you are NOT going to be happy in November.

Is this the same John Q Public that was going to vote Obama out in '12?

LOL, tell me.....besides Pelosi which Dem is running around praising the ACA ?

 

[RDD_1210]

Too funny, I am on the phone all day everyday with John Q Public, you are NOT going to be happy in November.

Is this the same John Q Public that was going to vote Obama out in '12?

LOL, tell me.....besides Pelosi which Dem is running around praising the ACA ?

A question answered with a question. How neat!

 

[Meister]

By November?

Most of the bugs will be worked out and it will be as popular as Medicare part D.

But it won't stop Conservatives from vomiting up year old horror stories that got proved false time and time again.

By November the next round of individuals will be receiving their healthcare insurance cancellation letters.

 

[Edgetho]

Via Politico:

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani announced plans on Twitter on Wednesday that might sound a little familiar to Americans.

Rouhani’s announcement of universal health care for all Iranians makes a not-so-subtle nod to the U.S.’s Affordable Care Act, more commonly known as Obamacare.

 

[Wyatt earp]

No offense, but your ideology prevents you from supporting a simplified plan that would tax HC providers and equity owners, who benefit from more customers and cheap labor, and simply provide tax credits to workers w/o HC, and have no mandate. Additionally, the govt could support high risk pools to protect people who are denied coverage when they change insurors. There was a way to provide access for workers, but the gop cannot ideologically support it, and prior to the TPM, they were open and even admitted there was a growing problem of inequitable distribution of benefits. (I realize u are not strictly a goper, but the gop is not unlike you on this issue)

There's no reason to take the Wal-Mart stock from the Waltons, in fact even the dems have no interest in doing. There's no wealth redistribution going on in this country. But so long as its heresey in the gop to raise taxes to provide a benefit like HC or education from people who are willign to work, the gop will have difficulty in winning natl elections.

This does not HAVE to depend on taxes or other expenses passed to the taxpayer.

What is wrong with business or educational loans to teach financial responsibility and planning?

If this takes work to manage, that creates more jobs for people to manage existing resources BETTER to PAY for health care and education. (instead of wasting twice as much public money SPENT per state on failed prison systems after the fact, when these resources could be LENT into education on the preventative side) Why not create campuses around jobs and education, training nurses and doctors and other service providers in exchange for serving the public to earn credits or money toward their education? Why not create jobs for lawyers or law school interns collecting debts and damages owed to taxpayers for crime or corruption, and use that money to fund services?

Because since the 1960s, we've chosen to operate on a system whereby HC insurance is part of a worker's benefits. In the 1960s, we came close to single payor, as that was what the rest of the industrial economies were going to, but the Big 3 automakers said, no, this is an employer's responsibilty to his employees.

In 2000, we had an election. One issue was whether this system was broken. The gop proposed, as do you, that employees should now pay out of pocket. The dems countered that no, this was a grab by the Kochs to engage in class warfare, and workers shouldn't have to pay on their own. 60% agreed with the dems on that issue.

I suggest that if the gop wants to win, they need to accept the will of the voters.

Since the 1960's? Wrong. ...it started when F DR froze wages in WW2 the company's had to come up with a new plan to get good quality employee s

 

[RDD_1210]

Via Politico:

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani announced plans on Twitter on Wednesday that might sound a little familiar to Americans.

Rouhani’s announcement of universal health care for all Iranians makes a not-so-subtle nod to the U.S.’s Affordable Care Act, more commonly known as Obamacare.

Good for them.

 

[Spoonman]

what is just starting to happen now is people who thought they were going to receive a benefit from obamacare are finding out they are no better off, if not worse. Approval for this program has been declining steadily and will continue to drop

 

[RDD_1210]

what is just starting to happen now is people who thought they were going to receive a benefit from obamacare are finding out they are no better off, if not worse. Approval for this program has been declining steadily and will continue to drop

All made up, just like the rest of your posts. Completely false.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

what is just starting to happen now is people who thought they were going to receive a benefit from obamacare are finding out they are no better off, if not worse. Approval for this program has been declining steadily and will continue to drop

All made up, just like the rest of your posts. Completely false.

No, its actually true, much to your chagrin.