O'Donnell questions separation of church, state

[CurveLight]

And what's Funny is, that is only Directed at Congress... At the time of the Founding, a State Arguably could Declare a Religion...

It's not unlike the 2nd Amendment... Liberals want it to say something it doesn't, so they Find a Court who will take Jefferson's words in a Letter to a Church the HELL out of Context, and Attempt to Rewrite the 1st Amendment.

It's also not unlike Abortion... The Founders would Certainly NOT Support the Act of Aborting a Pregnancy of Convenience, nor would they have Found a place in the Constitution that Legitimized it...

So what Jefferson called "the Despotic Branch" did.



peace...

First trimester abortion was legal throughout the colonies in the 18th century.

I've always been curious about that. Do you have a link?

Abortion in early America. [Women Health. 1979] - PubMed result

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Since you're the one claiming that there is no separation of church and state because that exact phrase isn't mentioned, that makes it a semantic argument.

So, try again...even though the exact phrase is not in the constitution, Jefferson (who heavily influenced the first ammendment) and Madison (who wrote it) clearly believed that the first ammendment established a separation. The Supreme Court has consistantly held that there is a separation (and never ruled otherwise). So on what grounds are you claiming that there is no separation except from a purely semantic argument?

Wrong dickweed! That's not my argument .

I didn't say it was. I ASKED if that is not your argument, then what is it? Looking back, you've said that separation is a myth, and yet the guy who wrote it clearly believed the 1st ammendment separates church from state, government from religion. Please enlighten us on how President Madison was wrong about his own words.

For too many years the politicians and courts of this country have been able to perpetrate the false idea of "separation of church and state". They claim that they founding fathers of this nation designed this to be a basis for our form of government. Nothing could be further from the truth. They did intend to keep government out of the religious arena by disallowing a national religion such as existed in England with the Church of England; however the intent was never to keep the church out of government. Please consider my statement in light of these quotations from some you may have heard of:

US Supreme Court - Church of the Holy Trinity vs US 1892:
"This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ..... These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances, they speak the voice of the entire people .... These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

North Carolina Constitution 1876
"No person who shall deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil department within this State."

John Jay - First Chief Justice US Supreme Court:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

House Judiciary Report in 1854:
"Chistianity must be considered as the foundation upon which the whole structure rests. Laws will not have not permanence or power without the sanction of religious sentitment, without a firm belief that there is a Power above us that will reward our virtues and punish our vices. In this age there will be no substitute for Christianity: that, in its general principles, is the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the founders of the Republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants. There is a great and very prevalent error on this subject in the opinion that those who organized this Government did not legislate on religion."

"The great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Continental Congress - May 16, 1776:
"The Congress ... desirous ... to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely ... on His aid and direction ... Do earnestly recommend ... a day of humiliation, fasting and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and ammendment of life ... and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain His pardon and forgiveness."

The Fallacy of Separation Of Church And State

 

[Skull Pilot]

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

I'm no fan of O'Donnell but it was pretty obvious to me that she was making the point that the phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution.

The phrase Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof for some people does not prohibit things like the 10 commandments being displayed on public property etc because it is not technically a violation of the first amendment as there was no law passed by congress to do so.

Funny how you people think that the government must shun god but the "In God We Trust" motto printed on our currency is OK and the President saying "God Bless America" is OK but the 10 commandments displayed in a courthouse or a Christmas tree on the lawn of the town hall is an unforgivable violation of the first amendment.

How about a little consistency in your own opinions before you judge everyone else?

BTW just to remind you, I am an atheist and don't really care that the word God appears in public. As long as congress makes no laws.... the first amendment is in tact.

 

[bodecea]

Wrong dickweed! That's not my argument .

I didn't say it was. I ASKED if that is not your argument, then what is it? Looking back, you've said that separation is a myth, and yet the guy who wrote it clearly believed the 1st ammendment separates church from state, government from religion. Please enlighten us on how President Madison was wrong about his own words.

For too many years the politicians and courts of this country have been able to perpetrate the false idea of "separation of church and state". They claim that they founding fathers of this nation designed this to be a basis for our form of government. Nothing could be further from the truth. They did intend to keep government out of the religious arena by disallowing a national religion such as existed in England with the Church of England; however the intent was never to keep the church out of government. Please consider my statement in light of these quotations from some you may have heard of:

US Supreme Court - Church of the Holy Trinity vs US 1892:
"This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ..... These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances, they speak the voice of the entire people .... These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

North Carolina Constitution 1876
"No person who shall deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil department within this State."

John Jay - First Chief Justice US Supreme Court:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

House Judiciary Report in 1854:
"Chistianity must be considered as the foundation upon which the whole structure rests. Laws will not have not permanence or power without the sanction of religious sentitment, without a firm belief that there is a Power above us that will reward our virtues and punish our vices. In this age there will be no substitute for Christianity: that, in its general principles, is the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the founders of the Republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants. There is a great and very prevalent error on this subject in the opinion that those who organized this Government did not legislate on religion."

"The great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Continental Congress - May 16, 1776:
"The Congress ... desirous ... to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely ... on His aid and direction ... Do earnestly recommend ... a day of humiliation, fasting and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and ammendment of life ... and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain His pardon and forgiveness."

The Fallacy of Separation Of Church And State

Separation of Church and State is FALSE? Good thing we DO have the 1st amendment to protect us from people like you.

 

[GHook93]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Meaning the government cannot force us or deny us the right to practice any religion. So if they can't force us then there's some kind of seperation there...

And what's Funny is, that is only Directed at Congress... At the time of the Founding, a State Arguably could Declare a Religion...

It's not unlike the 2nd Amendment... Liberals want it to say something it doesn't, so they Find a Court who will take Jefferson's words in a Letter to a Church the HELL out of Context, and Attempt to Rewrite the 1st Amendment.

It's also not unlike Abortion... The Founders would Certainly NOT Support the Act of Aborting a Pregnancy of Convenience, nor would they have Found a place in the Constitution that Legitimized it...

So what Jefferson called "the Despotic Branch" did.



peace...

First trimester abortion was legal throughout the colonies in the 18th century.

So was beating your wife, owning slaves, burning witches at the stake and killing a man in a duel!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I didn't say it was. I ASKED if that is not your argument, then what is it? Looking back, you've said that separation is a myth, and yet the guy who wrote it clearly believed the 1st ammendment separates church from state, government from religion. Please enlighten us on how President Madison was wrong about his own words.

For too many years the politicians and courts of this country have been able to perpetrate the false idea of "separation of church and state". They claim that they founding fathers of this nation designed this to be a basis for our form of government. Nothing could be further from the truth. They did intend to keep government out of the religious arena by disallowing a national religion such as existed in England with the Church of England; however the intent was never to keep the church out of government. Please consider my statement in light of these quotations from some you may have heard of:

US Supreme Court - Church of the Holy Trinity vs US 1892:
"This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ..... These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances, they speak the voice of the entire people .... These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

North Carolina Constitution 1876
"No person who shall deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil department within this State."

John Jay - First Chief Justice US Supreme Court:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

House Judiciary Report in 1854:
"Chistianity must be considered as the foundation upon which the whole structure rests. Laws will not have not permanence or power without the sanction of religious sentitment, without a firm belief that there is a Power above us that will reward our virtues and punish our vices. In this age there will be no substitute for Christianity: that, in its general principles, is the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the founders of the Republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants. There is a great and very prevalent error on this subject in the opinion that those who organized this Government did not legislate on religion."

"The great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Continental Congress - May 16, 1776:
"The Congress ... desirous ... to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely ... on His aid and direction ... Do earnestly recommend ... a day of humiliation, fasting and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and ammendment of life ... and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain His pardon and forgiveness."

The Fallacy of Separation Of Church And State

Separation of Church and State is FALSE? Good thing we DO have the 1st amendment to protect us from people like you.

Good thing not everyone is as stupid as you are. Shall I define the word "fallacy" for you?

It's quite obvious that you and reading comprehension are mortal enemies.

 

[topspin]

what's clear is she's clueless about the amendement and most everything else.

She was a slut in college, and you tools are dumb enough to pay for her no sex comedy routine.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

what's clear is she's clueless about the amendement and most everything else.

She was a slut in college, and you tools are dumb enough to pay for her no sex comedy routine.

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

 

[topspin]

what's clear is she's clueless about the amendement and most everything else.

She was a slut in college, and you tools are dumb enough to pay for her no sex comedy routine.

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

 

[Intense]

what's clear is she's clueless about the amendement and most everything else.

She was a slut in college, and you tools are dumb enough to pay for her no sex comedy routine.

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

You missed out on manners, decency, courtesy, and common sense though, huh.

I am so impressed.

 

[topspin]

I'm not out to impress morons

 

[Intense]

I'm not out to impress morons

You got that down ass clown. Just keep on dazzling us with your credentials and skills, or lack of them. Loyola must be real proud of you. What a waste of time.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

what's clear is she's clueless about the amendement and most everything else.

She was a slut in college, and you tools are dumb enough to pay for her no sex comedy routine.

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

I'll say this again, since I know you're not bright enough to have remembered from the last time you were told. I didn't attend A&M, although it is a fine college. I think you are not only a first rate idiot, but a liar as well. No intelligent person with an college education could butcher the english language and commit grammatical errors in the manner that you consistently display. One needs to look no further than the above post to see the evidence.

 

[bodecea]

For too many years the politicians and courts of this country have been able to perpetrate the false idea of "separation of church and state". They claim that they founding fathers of this nation designed this to be a basis for our form of government. Nothing could be further from the truth. They did intend to keep government out of the religious arena by disallowing a national religion such as existed in England with the Church of England; however the intent was never to keep the church out of government. Please consider my statement in light of these quotations from some you may have heard of:

US Supreme Court - Church of the Holy Trinity vs US 1892:
"This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ..... These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances, they speak the voice of the entire people .... These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

North Carolina Constitution 1876
"No person who shall deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil department within this State."

John Jay - First Chief Justice US Supreme Court:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

House Judiciary Report in 1854:
"Chistianity must be considered as the foundation upon which the whole structure rests. Laws will not have not permanence or power without the sanction of religious sentitment, without a firm belief that there is a Power above us that will reward our virtues and punish our vices. In this age there will be no substitute for Christianity: that, in its general principles, is the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the founders of the Republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants. There is a great and very prevalent error on this subject in the opinion that those who organized this Government did not legislate on religion."

"The great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Continental Congress - May 16, 1776:
"The Congress ... desirous ... to have people of all ranks and degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely ... on His aid and direction ... Do earnestly recommend ... a day of humiliation, fasting and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and ammendment of life ... and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain His pardon and forgiveness."

The Fallacy of Separation Of Church And State

Separation of Church and State is FALSE? Good thing we DO have the 1st amendment to protect us from people like you.

Good thing not everyone is as stupid as you are. Shall I define the word "fallacy" for you?

It's quite obvious that you and reading comprehension are mortal enemies.

I'm sure you think so....using that Lonestar "logic" of yours.

Now...go ahead and show us how much smarter than the rest of us you are. That's your MO.

 

[topspin]

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

I'll say this again, since I know you're not bright enough to have remembered from the last time you were told. I didn't attend A&M, although it is a fine college. I think you are not only a first rate idiot, but a liar as well. No intelligent person with an college education could butcher the english language and commit grammatical errors in the manner that you consistently display. One needs to look no further than the above post to see the evidence.

where did you go assclown or are you ashamed of that cowchip tossing community college.

 

[bodecea]

At least she went to college. That's more than can be said about you.

And no, I don't want fries with that.

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

I'll say this again, since I know you're not bright enough to have remembered from the last time you were told. I didn't attend A&M, although it is a fine college. I think you are not only a first rate idiot, but a liar as well. No intelligent person with an college education could butcher the english language and commit grammatical errors in the manner that you consistently display. One needs to look no further than the above post to see the evidence.

Wouldn't it be funny if even the Aggies rejected you?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

you must have been an aggie dipshit, I got an acct degree from UNO and an MBA from Loyola. Which is way more than your or the Jesus freak witch has.

I'll say this again, since I know you're not bright enough to have remembered from the last time you were told. I didn't attend A&M, although it is a fine college. I think you are not only a first rate idiot, but a liar as well. No intelligent person with an college education could butcher the english language and commit grammatical errors in the manner that you consistently display. One needs to look no further than the above post to see the evidence.

where did you go assclown or are you ashamed of that cowchip tossing community college.

I'm not ashamed of anything. Fact is, I'm rather proud of my educational background.

 

[Urkie]

And what's Funny is, that is only Directed at Congress... At the time of the Founding, a State Arguably could Declare a Religion...

It's not unlike the 2nd Amendment... Liberals want it to say something it doesn't, so they Find a Court who will take Jefferson's words in a Letter to a Church the HELL out of Context, and Attempt to Rewrite the 1st Amendment.

It's also not unlike Abortion... The Founders would Certainly NOT Support the Act of Aborting a Pregnancy of Convenience, nor would they have Found a place in the Constitution that Legitimized it...

So what Jefferson called "the Despotic Branch" did.



peace...

But the whole point of the first amendment is to give everyone the right to practice any religion they want without the government forcing it upon them. If that's the case then why would they allow states to declare a religion? That would be like me saying, "you can practice any religion you want but the state says you have to practice this one" so you're out of luck...

So are you saying you think everyone should have to have a religion forced upon them? Do you believe that?

 

[topspin]

I'll say this again, since I know you're not bright enough to have remembered from the last time you were told. I didn't attend A&M, although it is a fine college. I think you are not only a first rate idiot, but a liar as well. No intelligent person with an college education could butcher the english language and commit grammatical errors in the manner that you consistently display. One needs to look no further than the above post to see the evidence.

where did you go assclown or are you ashamed of that cowchip tossing community college.

I'm not ashamed of anything. Fact is, I'm rather proud of my educational background.

then state up podunk boy

 

[Lonestar_logic]

where did you go assclown or are you ashamed of that cowchip tossing community college.

I'm not ashamed of anything. Fact is, I'm rather proud of my educational background.

then state up podunk boy

Here's my bio. and more fodder for you to hurl lame ass insults with.

I quit school at 15 never attended high school, I was incarerated in the Texas Dept. of Corrections at 18 for assault w/intent it's also where I aquired a GED, upon my release at the age of 20 after having served three of a five year sentence I attended Sam Houston University courtesy of Red Adair. I worked for Red until he retired and sold out to Boots n Coots. I stayed with them until I retired after twenty years of faithful employment. I'm now employed at an engineering firm of which I am paid extremely well. I co-own two businesses and I have amassed several thousand acres of land, some of which I raise cattle on and some I sold five years ago for 1.7 mil. to a housing developer. And on my worst day I could outsmart the likes of you.