Official Usmb Mafia Game #5: A Game Of Fire And Ice (day 6)

[House]

To summarize, so it doesn't get lost:

-Sameech said he saw Avi kill Rosie here in the thread

Where was this? I know he was all over Avatar, but I can't recall an exact post specifying him eyeballing Avatar kill Rosie.

Not saying it didn't happen... but as above, terrible remembery.

This is why Avatar was lynched House. Sameech said he watched Avatar kill Rosie. Then it was questioned if Sam may be ice and because Avatar said he did NOT kill Rosie, but his partner did. I think it is weird you don't remember this or the previous question we just discussed 2 pages back.

I think it's weird that you remember something I can find no trace of.

 

[Wolfsister77]

@sameech - you'll have to excuse me, I'm in the middle of a blood sugar crash. How does Avi's blocking ability make him Scum?

He can block the vig killing him which is why I tried to get her to do it straight out of the gates before he could stop her. Blocking doesn't make him scum-- that I know he carried out the NK on Rosie makes him scum. I just don't find it particularly good for town to disclose whether I am a tracker or a Night Watchman and what the limits are on my use at this particular point in time. Geez, apparently to crumb this town you need a bread truck.

Now off to paint some more freaking walls and ceilings while I can.

Okay, so this is the only post I could find regarding Sam claiming knowledge of who killed Rosie.

It says he "knew" Avatar killed Rosie, but didn't specify that he "saw" him do it.

Semantics, I know... but the devil is in the details.

Is there another post I've missed where he said he saw the attack?

I would ISO Sameech around that time or I will when I have a moment. There was a couple more that were not as damning to Avi as this one was were he insinuated that Avi killed Rosie. This is the only one I recal where he said he knew Avi killed Rosie due to a PR. My problem with it is, that same night he said he found out FA was town. I'm not sure how he can see both and how he gets a cop result on one and a tracker result on the other. I've heard of Watcher and Tracker but never Night Watchman. Not saying it doesn't exist but not sure. And he did kind of over react to the questioning.

 

[Wolfsister77]

To summarize, so it doesn't get lost:

-Sameech said he saw Avi kill Rosie here in the thread

Where was this? I know he was all over Avatar, but I can't recall an exact post specifying him eyeballing Avatar kill Rosie.

Not saying it didn't happen... but as above, terrible remembery.

This is why Avatar was lynched House. Sameech said he watched Avatar kill Rosie. Then it was questioned if Sam may be ice and because Avatar said he did NOT kill Rosie, but his partner did. I think it is weird you don't remember this or the previous question we just discussed 2 pages back.

I think it's weird that you remember something I can find no trace of.

She's right about what happened. It was all in twilight D2 once Avi admitted he was scum.

 

[House]

Sam are you trying to claim you witnessed me killing Rosie?

Found this post, but I'm still unable to find Sam answering it affirmatively. I did see

Sam are you trying to claim you witnessed me killing Rosie?

That's the way I read his post Avi.

But not a post from Sam saying yes.

 

[CaféAuLait]

On 8-30 in Central QT Sam starts to call Ayi scum and tells Aye to use her vig ability to kill Aye.
Post 583 Post 591 he reasserts this claim and tells Aye to VIG kill Avatar. Sam and Avi go at it a bit then it settles.
Sam disappears from the QT for a day and leaves it alone. We all keep discussing stuff.

on 9-1 morning Sam comes back declares Avatar scum again because of something Avatar said about investigative abilities ( I had pointed this out on the GT) the comment Avi made about the word investigate.

On 9-1 again Sam comes back ( after avatars lynch) and says we should have taken his hint prior. He does not state what his PR is, just that he will probably be dead before he can used his magic again.

 

[Wolfsister77]

In our hood House, it was right around 551 and 564 but again, Sam hinted heavily in the game that he knew Avi carried out the NK. Whether he saw it or tracked it was not specified. He didn't specify his PR until much later at 641 when he said he was a Night Watchman and FA was town.

 

[CaféAuLait]

@sameech - you'll have to excuse me, I'm in the middle of a blood sugar crash. How does Avi's blocking ability make him Scum?

He can block the vig killing him which is why I tried to get her to do it straight out of the gates before he could stop her. Blocking doesn't make him scum-- that I know he carried out the NK on Rosie makes him scum. I just don't find it particularly good for town to disclose whether I am a tracker or a Night Watchman and what the limits are on my use at this particular point in time. Geez, apparently to crumb this town you need a bread truck.

Now off to paint some more freaking walls and ceilings while I can.

Okay, so this is the only post I could find regarding Sam claiming knowledge of who killed Rosie.

It says he "knew" Avatar killed Rosie, but didn't specify that he "saw" him do it.

Semantics, I know... but the devil is in the details.

Is there another post I've missed where he said he saw the attack?

No, that is the post where he clamed to be either watchman or tracker which would give him the ability to see or KNOW Avatar kill Rosie.


What did you think he meant? When you voted for Avatar here:

Official USMB Mafia Game 5 A Game of Fire and Ice Page 103 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Wolfsister77]

I agree with Cafe on this House, you voted for Avi, what do you think he meant when he said he knew that Avi killed Rosie? Does it matter if he saw it as a watcher or tracked it as a tracker? Either way, it is seeing it. either of those PR's will see something if it happened. So what is the issue if Sam didn't say the words see and instead said he knew it happened as a watcher or tracker?

 

[ScarletRage]

@Wolfsister77 What was the context of Sameech knowing FA was town?

 

[Mertex]

@CaféAuLait The person who claimed they were the only one working for town was me trying to stop the Grandma lynch and get a train on scum.

I am pretty satisified that Cafe Wolf and Mertex are all town.

That leaves scum in House Sameech TSO Mathblade and Gath.

I think House is town. My read could be far off. But his moving votes to ensure there are not mislynches makes me feel he is a town read because of this. My suspicion of him came from the fact many do not think this is his first game.

Last night and a bit before that I had myself convinced Tn/wolf were a team. I'll tell you what happened last night. This was FAR before Math ( who I thought was scum due to thinking Mebelle is scum) brought up the possible team play. I don't believe TN did not know he had a neighborhood BTW.

I moved my vote to Gath and Wolf immediately moved her vote to Gath quoting mine IIRC. She had me FOSed IIRC and I thought this to be weird she would follow my vote given she has me at being possible Scum. I mentioned the quick move on Wolf's part in my hood and almost immediately Wolf removed her vote. It may have been a coincidence, but it kinda gave me the impression she and TN may be a team since TN/TSO are I my hood and I thought it may have been mentioned to her. Additionally, this is the second time she has done this ( follow my vote) and at first I thought she may be subtly buddying me.

Anyway that is part of what I had. But my wiggle read of Sam has me questioning if Sam and Math are not partners and I may have it wrong, unless Sam is being truthful on the watcher thing.

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

Select and give one player "1-Shot Jailkeeper" status. This means your target can jail one person once during the Night. A person that is jailed cannot be killed during that Night, but he or she also isn't able to use any abilities.

@AyeCantSeeYou Gath had to trigger this during the day. All green dots are day abilities.

Okay, IF that is the case then Sam could not have seen FA visit Rosie and be townfirm on FA- as a watchmen or tracker.

Where did Sameech claim to have seen FA?

House and Wolf states it is in their hood IIRC. I think Mertex said it was here on the GT. I may be wrong about that.

Where did I say that?

If I said anything like that I was just quoting someone else saying it. I have gone through all of Sam's post and did not find anything resembling any remark that he saw FA or confirmed FA was town. He might have said it in one of his hoods, which I'm not a member of any of those.

 

[CaféAuLait]

I agree with Cafe on this House, you voted for Avi, what do you think he meant when he said he knew that Avi killed Rosie? Does it matter if he saw it as a watcher or tracked it as a tracker? Either way, it is seeing it. either of those PR's will see something if it happened. So what is the issue if Sam didn't say the words see and instead said he knew it happened as a watcher or tracker?

Hmmmmm
Strange. House can't recall or does not know game terms? Seeing or knowing is no difference. The memory issue seems to have been used twice in a row as well. Don't know why you were pushing the semantics so hard House.

 

[Mertex]

@sameech - you'll have to excuse me, I'm in the middle of a blood sugar crash. How does Avi's blocking ability make him Scum?

He can block the vig killing him which is why I tried to get her to do it straight out of the gates before he could stop her. Blocking doesn't make him scum-- that I know he carried out the NK on Rosie makes him scum. I just don't find it particularly good for town to disclose whether I am a tracker or a Night Watchman and what the limits are on my use at this particular point in time. Geez, apparently to crumb this town you need a bread truck.

Now off to paint some more freaking walls and ceilings while I can.

Okay, so this is the only post I could find regarding Sam claiming knowledge of who killed Rosie.

It says he "knew" Avatar killed Rosie, but didn't specify that he "saw" him do it.

Semantics, I know... but the devil is in the details.

Is there another post I've missed where he said he saw the attack?

I would ISO Sameech around that time or I will when I have a moment. There was a couple more that were not as damning to Avi as this one was were he insinuated that Avi killed Rosie. This is the only one I recal where he said he knew Avi killed Rosie due to a PR. My problem with it is, that same night he said he found out FA was town. I'm not sure how he can see both and how he gets a cop result on one and a tracker result on the other. I've heard of Watcher and Tracker but never Night Watchman. Not saying it doesn't exist but not sure. And he did kind of over react to the questioning.

Post #3013 is where Sam said (not insinuated) Avatar killed Rosie. I searched all of Sam's posts and nowhere did I find where he said anything about FA. Are you sure he didn't say that in your hood? Or Central?

 

[CaféAuLait]

@CaféAuLait The person who claimed they were the only one working for town was me trying to stop the Grandma lynch and get a train on scum.

I am pretty satisified that Cafe Wolf and Mertex are all town.

That leaves scum in House Sameech TSO Mathblade and Gath.

I think House is town. My read could be far off. But his moving votes to ensure there are not mislynches makes me feel he is a town read because of this. My suspicion of him came from the fact many do not think this is his first game.

Last night and a bit before that I had myself convinced Tn/wolf were a team. I'll tell you what happened last night. This was FAR before Math ( who I thought was scum due to thinking Mebelle is scum) brought up the possible team play. I don't believe TN did not know he had a neighborhood BTW.

I moved my vote to Gath and Wolf immediately moved her vote to Gath quoting mine IIRC. She had me FOSed IIRC and I thought this to be weird she would follow my vote given she has me at being possible Scum. I mentioned the quick move on Wolf's part in my hood and almost immediately Wolf removed her vote. It may have been a coincidence, but it kinda gave me the impression she and TN may be a team since TN/TSO are I my hood and I thought it may have been mentioned to her. Additionally, this is the second time she has done this ( follow my vote) and at first I thought she may be subtly buddying me.

Anyway that is part of what I had. But my wiggle read of Sam has me questioning if Sam and Math are not partners and I may have it wrong, unless Sam is being truthful on the watcher thing.

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

Select and give one player "1-Shot Jailkeeper" status. This means your target can jail one person once during the Night. A person that is jailed cannot be killed during that Night, but he or she also isn't able to use any abilities.

@AyeCantSeeYou Gath had to trigger this during the day. All green dots are day abilities.

Okay, IF that is the case then Sam could not have seen FA visit Rosie and be townfirm on FA- as a watchmen or tracker.

Where did Sameech claim to have seen FA?

House and Wolf states it is in their hood IIRC. I think Mertex said it was here on the GT. I may be wrong about that.

Where did I say that?

If I said anything like that I was just quoting someone else saying it. I have gone through all of Sam's post and did not find anything resembling any remark that he saw FA or confirmed FA was town. He might have said it in one of his hoods, which I'm not a member of any of those.

A bit ago ( an hour or so) I said I thought Sam said he knew FA was town AFTER FA was lynched but then realized it was before. You quoted me and said,

Yea.

This read to me as if you had seen it somewhere.

 

[Wolfsister77]

@Wolfsister77 What was the context of Sameech knowing FA was town?

I wish I could copy 641 word for word but paraphrasing he said FA is town, from N1, and he knows that because he's a Night Watchman and not a Tracker.

 

[Wolfsister77]

@sameech - you'll have to excuse me, I'm in the middle of a blood sugar crash. How does Avi's blocking ability make him Scum?

He can block the vig killing him which is why I tried to get her to do it straight out of the gates before he could stop her. Blocking doesn't make him scum-- that I know he carried out the NK on Rosie makes him scum. I just don't find it particularly good for town to disclose whether I am a tracker or a Night Watchman and what the limits are on my use at this particular point in time. Geez, apparently to crumb this town you need a bread truck.

Now off to paint some more freaking walls and ceilings while I can.

Okay, so this is the only post I could find regarding Sam claiming knowledge of who killed Rosie.

It says he "knew" Avatar killed Rosie, but didn't specify that he "saw" him do it.

Semantics, I know... but the devil is in the details.

Is there another post I've missed where he said he saw the attack?

I would ISO Sameech around that time or I will when I have a moment. There was a couple more that were not as damning to Avi as this one was were he insinuated that Avi killed Rosie. This is the only one I recal where he said he knew Avi killed Rosie due to a PR. My problem with it is, that same night he said he found out FA was town. I'm not sure how he can see both and how he gets a cop result on one and a tracker result on the other. I've heard of Watcher and Tracker but never Night Watchman. Not saying it doesn't exist but not sure. And he did kind of over react to the questioning.

Post #3013 is where Sam said (not insinuated) Avatar killed Rosie. I searched all of Sam's posts and nowhere did I find where he said anything about FA. Are you sure he didn't say that in your hood? Or Central?

He said that in North, 641, confirmed by House. We both saw it.

 

[Mertex]

@CaféAuLait The person who claimed they were the only one working for town was me trying to stop the Grandma lynch and get a train on scum.

I am pretty satisified that Cafe Wolf and Mertex are all town.

That leaves scum in House Sameech TSO Mathblade and Gath.

I think House is town. My read could be far off. But his moving votes to ensure there are not mislynches makes me feel he is a town read because of this. My suspicion of him came from the fact many do not think this is his first game.

Last night and a bit before that I had myself convinced Tn/wolf were a team. I'll tell you what happened last night. This was FAR before Math ( who I thought was scum due to thinking Mebelle is scum) brought up the possible team play. I don't believe TN did not know he had a neighborhood BTW.

I moved my vote to Gath and Wolf immediately moved her vote to Gath quoting mine IIRC. She had me FOSed IIRC and I thought this to be weird she would follow my vote given she has me at being possible Scum. I mentioned the quick move on Wolf's part in my hood and almost immediately Wolf removed her vote. It may have been a coincidence, but it kinda gave me the impression she and TN may be a team since TN/TSO are I my hood and I thought it may have been mentioned to her. Additionally, this is the second time she has done this ( follow my vote) and at first I thought she may be subtly buddying me.

Anyway that is part of what I had. But my wiggle read of Sam has me questioning if Sam and Math are not partners and I may have it wrong, unless Sam is being truthful on the watcher thing.

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

@Wake

If jailer's keys are given to Player A and scum targets Player A for their Night Kill, does Player A still receive the keys, or are they still in the hands of the original holder due to the NK cancelling them out?

Select and give one player "1-Shot Jailkeeper" status. This means your target can jail one person once during the Night. A person that is jailed cannot be killed during that Night, but he or she also isn't able to use any abilities.

@AyeCantSeeYou Gath had to trigger this during the day. All green dots are day abilities.

Okay, IF that is the case then Sam could not have seen FA visit Rosie and be townfirm on FA- as a watchmen or tracker.

Where did Sameech claim to have seen FA?

House and Wolf states it is in their hood IIRC. I think Mertex said it was here on the GT. I may be wrong about that.

Where did I say that?

If I said anything like that I was just quoting someone else saying it. I have gone through all of Sam's post and did not find anything resembling any remark that he saw FA or confirmed FA was town. He might have said it in one of his hoods, which I'm not a member of any of those.

A bit ago ( an hour or so) I said I thought Sam said he knew FA was town AFTER FA was lynched but then realized it was before. You quoted me and said,

Yea.

This read to me as if you had seen it somewhere.

I think it was Wolf's post that I saw that said that. That's why I just spent 1/2 hour reviewing all 10 pages of Sam's posts and didn't find anything where he said anything about FA. I'm thinking if he said it, it might have been in a hood, where Wolf and him are part of. So, yeah, I may have seen it somewhere, where someone else posted it, but I didn't find it in his posts.

 

[Wolfsister77]

So the million dollar question is, does this make Sam ice scum or PR?

 

[CaféAuLait]

Mertex

This is the post where I thought you meant you had seen it too.

Official USMB Mafia Game 5 A Game of Fire and Ice Page 136 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[CaféAuLait]

@Wolfsister77 What was the context of Sameech knowing FA was town?

I wish I could copy 641 word for word but paraphrasing he said FA is town, from N1, and he knows that because he's a Night Watchman and not a Tracker.

@Wolfsister77

Why did it matter? I guess that is the point. What was being discussed for Sam to tell you all FA was town? It makes no sense to me for Sam ( if scum) to screw up some scam on us/town by seemingly protecting FA, a townie.

 

[House]

I agree with Cafe on this House, you voted for Avi, what do you think he meant when he said he knew that Avi killed Rosie? Does it matter if he saw it as a watcher or tracked it as a tracker? Either way, it is seeing it. either of those PR's will see something if it happened. So what is the issue if Sam didn't say the words see and instead said he knew it happened as a watcher or tracker?

Hmmmmm
Strange. House can't recall or does not know game terms? Seeing or knowing is no difference. The memory issue seems to have been used twice in a row as well. Don't know why you were pushing the semantics so hard House.

Oh stop jumping at shadows. I told you guys I have limited access and I'm jumping in here when I can. I have a ton of different things I'm having to deal with this week, so excuse the shit out of me if game details go to a back burner while I deal with things that put food on my table.

Memory issues are easily resolved with post links, which we have been discussing. Clarification of details and seeking the truth among the fog seems town to me. If you disagree, I'll stop asking questions, no problem.

I agree with Cafe on this House, you voted for Avi, what do you think he meant when he said he knew that Avi killed Rosie? Does it matter if he saw it as a watcher or tracked it as a tracker? Either way, it is seeing it. either of those PR's will see something if it happened. So what is the issue if Sam didn't say the words see and instead said he knew it happened as a watcher or tracker?

I simply believe "knowing" something is different from "seeing" it. If that's some game issue where the two are interchangeable, excuse the fuck outta me.