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How?!!? If they are his friends on Facebook you don't think some of them were also his friends in real life? You don't think his community knew why he was discharged from the military? For beating his wife??? ALMOST everyone in this country, and especially gun owners know that you can't legally own a gun if you are convicted of domestic violence, and this guy flaunted his gun out there for everyone to see. So don't fly that bullshit flag with me.
You assume he moved back to his hometown.
Dishonorable discharges aren't posted in the newspapers.
Do you know every person in your town who has had a restraining order put on them?
Do you know every person with a domestic abuse charge?
How would anyone on Facebook know these things if he didn't tell them?
And I don't have a Facebook account but I do know it is pretty easy to have "friends" you have never met.
He posted a picture of him with a gun. Do you know when that picture was actually taken? Do you know if he bought the gun before his domestic violence charges?
If you don't know all these things you cannot expect anyone else to know them
I have tried finding anyone who has posted it so far in this thread, The shooter's weapons were all bought legally. He had a Bad Conduct Discharge and not a Dishonorable Discharge. The former does not take away his gun rights but the latter would have.
Air Force just admitted late today that the Court Orders from his Court Martial never made it to the Insta-Check system. They admitted it's fucked up. Don't know how many other papers were not filed with Insta-Check. I have a thread in Breaking News with the link..
And here we are -- listening to the left tell us how much more complicated and delicate they want to make that system. The Govt can't manage it or make it work NOW... But Fed-Ex could. Or MicroSoft or any number of competent MOTIVATED private companies that would get their asses SUED to Holy Hell if they fucked up like this..
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
You assume he moved back to his hometown.
Dishonorable discharges aren't posted in the newspapers.
Do you know every person in your town who has had a restraining order put on them?
Do you know every person with a domestic abuse charge?
How would anyone on Facebook know these things if he didn't tell them?
And I don't have a Facebook account but I do know it is pretty easy to have "friends" you have never met.
He posted a picture of him with a gun. Do you know when that picture was actually taken? Do you know if he bought the gun before his domestic violence charges?
f you don't know all these things you cannot expect anyone else to know them
I have tried finding anyone who has posted it so far in this thread, The shooter's weapons were all bought legally. He had a Bad Conduct Discharge and not a Dishonorable Discharge. The former does not take away his gun rights but the latter would have.
Air Force just admitted late today that the Court Orders from his Court Martial never made it to the Insta-Check system. They admitted it's fucked up. Don't know how many other papers were not filed with Insta-Check. I have a thread in Breaking News with the link..
And here we are -- listening to the left tell us how much more complicated and delicate they want to make that system. The Govt can't manage it or make it work NOW... But Fed-Ex could. Or MicroSoft or any number of competent MOTIVATED private companies that would get their asses SUED to Holy Hell if they fucked up like this..
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
Sorry but that doesn't seem like a law problem, it sounds like a management problem.
Something as serious as making sure a guy that beats his wife and fractures his son's skull, and that he should be put in the data base to make sure he can never own a gun again is pretty important.
I have tried finding anyone who has posted it so far in this thread, The shooter's weapons were all bought legally. He had a Bad Conduct Discharge and not a Dishonorable Discharge. The former does not take away his gun rights but the latter would have.
Air Force just admitted late today that the Court Orders from his Court Martial never made it to the Insta-Check system. They admitted it's fucked up. Don't know how many other papers were not filed with Insta-Check. I have a thread in Breaking News with the link..
And here we are -- listening to the left tell us how much more complicated and delicate they want to make that system. The Govt can't manage it or make it work NOW... But Fed-Ex could. Or MicroSoft or any number of competent MOTIVATED private companies that would get their asses SUED to Holy Hell if they fucked up like this..
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
Sorry but that doesn't seem like a law problem, it sounds like a management problem.
Something as serious as making sure a guy that beats his wife and fractures his son's skull, and that he should be put in the data base to make sure he can never own a gun again is pretty important.
It's a reality of how distracted the Feds are about their BASIC duties. Like this system or ensuring fair elections without festering doubts after each contest. The EXPECTATION should be -- that there is almost NO mgt or oversight until someone gets hurt or killed.
Yet the Left and some on the Right WORSHIP bigger more muscular govt. And their 1st impulse when the fit hits the shan --- is to make those systems larger, more expensive and more muscular by the laws...
Air Force just admitted late today that the Court Orders from his Court Martial never made it to the Insta-Check system. They admitted it's fucked up. Don't know how many other papers were not filed with Insta-Check. I have a thread in Breaking News with the link..
And here we are -- listening to the left tell us how much more complicated and delicate they want to make that system. The Govt can't manage it or make it work NOW... But Fed-Ex could. Or MicroSoft or any number of competent MOTIVATED private companies that would get their asses SUED to Holy Hell if they fucked up like this..
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
Sorry but that doesn't seem like a law problem, it sounds like a management problem.
Something as serious as making sure a guy that beats his wife and fractures his son's skull, and that he should be put in the data base to make sure he can never own a gun again is pretty important.
It's a reality of how distracted the Feds are about their BASIC duties. Like this system or ensuring fair elections without festering doubts after each contest. The EXPECTATION should be -- that there is almost NO mgt or oversight until someone gets hurt or killed.
Yet the Left and some on the Right WORSHIP bigger more muscular govt. And their 1st impulse when the fit hits the shan --- is to make those systems larger, more expensive and more muscular by the laws...
Well it sounds to me like the military needs a huge overhaul.
In just the last few years:
#1. Several Air Force members were caught cheating on the nuclear tests, not compliant, and not manning their stations at nuclear missile launch silos.
#2. The Navy had a couple collisions this year with other ship killing several shipmen.
#3. The incident in Texas.
#4. Several DI's at Parris Island got busted for extreme hazing of recruits, one that result in a death.
I'm sure there are a lot more, but those are just off the top of my head.
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
Sorry but that doesn't seem like a law problem, it sounds like a management problem.
Something as serious as making sure a guy that beats his wife and fractures his son's skull, and that he should be put in the data base to make sure he can never own a gun again is pretty important.
It's a reality of how distracted the Feds are about their BASIC duties. Like this system or ensuring fair elections without festering doubts after each contest. The EXPECTATION should be -- that there is almost NO mgt or oversight until someone gets hurt or killed.
Yet the Left and some on the Right WORSHIP bigger more muscular govt. And their 1st impulse when the fit hits the shan --- is to make those systems larger, more expensive and more muscular by the laws...
Well it sounds to me like the military needs a huge overhaul.
In just the last few years:
#1. Several Air Force members were caught cheating on the nuclear tests, not compliant, and not manning their stations at nuclear missile launch silos.
#2. The Navy had a couple collisions this year with other ship killing several shipmen.
#3. The incident in Texas.
#4. Several DI's at Parris Island got busted for extreme hazing of recruits, one that result in a death.
I'm sure there are a lot more, but those are just off the top of my head.
Well -- there it is.. And we INCREASINGLY DEMAND these folks that have NO motivation towards excellence get MORE POWER and MORE money and MORE tools to abuse.
At BEST -- it's reactive mgt. Not pro-active mgt. And it's usually YEARS behind the trends and the "workarounds" that folks use to abuse their systems.
The F-ing FBI was still on teletypes, rolodexes, rotary phones, and filing cabinets until WELL into the 21st century. It's COMPLETELY inept and prone to corruption and errors..
Only if those people knew it was illegal for him to have a gun.He illegally owned a gun... and posted it on his Facebook to the world and people didn't notify law enforcement. All those people are complicity in the murders he committed for not doing something. We can't expect law enforcement to be EVERYWHERE and do EVERYTHING...
link please.Anybody who knew about his weapons and that he should not have had them has murder blood guilt on them.
Until the second he killed the first person, the NRA still considered him to be a good guy with a gun.
Liar. Only Leftards like felons with guns.Anybody who knew about his weapons and that he should not have had them has murder blood guilt on them.
Until the second he killed the first person, the NRA still considered him to be a good guy with a gun.
The mute don't say moot.In Devin Kelley's case...
... the point is moot...
... he's dead.
Props for not saying "mute"!
It's a reality of how distracted the Feds are about their BASIC duties. Like this system or ensuring fair elections without festering doubts after each contest. The EXPECTATION should be -- that there is almost NO mgt or oversight until someone gets hurt or killed.
Yet the Left and some on the Right WORSHIP bigger more muscular govt. And their 1st impulse when the fit hits the shan --- is to make those systems larger, more expensive and more muscular by the laws...
The gunman who killed 26 churchgoers in Texas escaped a mental health clinic in 2012, according to a police report. El Paso officers who detained Devin Kelley were told he was "a danger to himself and others". Kelley had been sent to the hospital after he was court-martialled for assaulting his ex-wife and stepson during his stint in the US Air Force. He was "attempting to carry out death threats" against "his military chain of command", the report states. Officials say the assault charge should have legally barred him from owning guns.
Kelley is believed to have been in a family row with his ex-wife and in-laws, police say
El Paso police arrested Kelley at a bus terminal in downtown El Paso on the evening of 7 June 2012, according to a police report first revealed by KPRC in Houston. In the report, police wrote that Kelley had escaped from Peak Behavioral Health Services in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, about 100 miles (160km) away. The person who reported him missing from the facility told police Kelley "suffered from mental disorders". Kelley "had already been caught sneaking firearms onto Holloman Air Force Base", the report adds. Later that year, Kelley pleaded guilty in a military court to repeatedly assaulting his wife and his toddler stepson.
He was sentenced to one year in a US Navy prison. FBI investigators said on Tuesday they have been trying to unlock Kelley's mobile phone, to better understand what led him to carry out the mass shooting. According to the Houston Chronicle newspaper, the killer had five days earlier shown up at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs with his children for an annual fall festival.
A friend of 26-year-old Kelley's former mother-in-law Michelle Shields, who officials believe he was targeting on Sunday, said she was glad to see him at the event with her grandchildren. "They thought, 'oh this is good. This is progress,'" said the woman, who is described as a longtime resident and family friend. Photos of the event on the church's Facebook page show children dressed in Halloween costumes and playing games. Several of the victims are also shown in the series of more than 40 photos.
MORE
You assume he moved back to his hometown.
Dishonorable discharges aren't posted in the newspapers.
Do you know every person in your town who has had a restraining order put on them?
Do you know every person with a domestic abuse charge?
How would anyone on Facebook know these things if he didn't tell them?
And I don't have a Facebook account but I do know it is pretty easy to have "friends" you have never met.
He posted a picture of him with a gun. Do you know when that picture was actually taken? Do you know if he bought the gun before his domestic violence charges?
If you don't know all these things you cannot expect anyone else to know them
I have tried finding anyone who has posted it so far in this thread, The shooter's weapons were all bought legally. He had a Bad Conduct Discharge and not a Dishonorable Discharge. The former does not take away his gun rights but the latter would have.
Air Force just admitted late today that the Court Orders from his Court Martial never made it to the Insta-Check system. They admitted it's fucked up. Don't know how many other papers were not filed with Insta-Check. I have a thread in Breaking News with the link..
And here we are -- listening to the left tell us how much more complicated and delicate they want to make that system. The Govt can't manage it or make it work NOW... But Fed-Ex could. Or MicroSoft or any number of competent MOTIVATED private companies that would get their asses SUED to Holy Hell if they fucked up like this..
Yes, somebody in the military screwed up. That doesn't mean that filing a few papers is complicated. It just means somebody screwed up.
You'd LIKE to think that. But the statement from Hollomon AirBase says they're "not certain" how often this has happened. Nobody can MANAGE these tasks. There is no REAL oversight. No penalties for screw-ups.
AND it's a pattern. The FBI blew the Insta-Check in the SC Church shooter case. Govt "intel" had at least 4 of the recent past Muslim cases of mass killing "under active investigation" at one time or another.
I think YOU just have an inflated FAITH in the ability to perform ALL these tasks. They need to quit using the Fed Govt as a Treasure Chest for the winners, drop 1/2 of the stuff they SHOULD NOT be doing. And focus on the things THEY SHOULD be doing..
Sorry but that doesn't seem like a law problem, it sounds like a management problem.
Something as serious as making sure a guy that beats his wife and fractures his son's skull, and that he should be put in the data base to make sure he can never own a gun again is pretty important.
Are you and iceberg rowing in the lagging boat? Must be.Liar. Only Leftards like felons with guns.Anybody who knew about his weapons and that he should not have had them has murder blood guilt on them.
Until the second he killed the first person, the NRA still considered him to be a good guy with a gun.
My friends in the MPs would never have used the word 'escaped.'
He was not incarcerated. However, it was his assigned place of duty, so went he walked out he went AWOL.
We don't know that, and your terminology is wrong. He was not incarcerated unless you can prove it.My friends in the MPs would never have used the word 'escaped.'
He was not incarcerated. However, it was his assigned place of duty, so went he walked out he went AWOL.
If he was involuntarily admitted. he escaped.
We don't know that, and your terminology is wrong. He was not incarcerated unless you can prove it.My friends in the MPs would never have used the word 'escaped.'
He was not incarcerated. However, it was his assigned place of duty, so went he walked out he went AWOL.
If he was involuntarily admitted. he escaped.
We don't know that, and your terminology is wrong. He was not incarcerated unless you can prove it.My friends in the MPs would never have used the word 'escaped.'
He was not incarcerated. However, it was his assigned place of duty, so went he walked out he went AWOL.
If he was involuntarily admitted. he escaped.
I guess it's a distinction without much difference. I know a couple of people who worked at a mental health facility. They said when someone was thrown in there involuntarily, they were legally required to stay, but voluntary admission people could leave when they wanted. Either way, it's an argument I'm not prepared to go to the mat with. You could be right, but I don't think so, and I wont loose much sleep over it either way.
Jessika Edwards told CNN that she and Devin Kelley worked together at Hollomon Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 to 2012. Kelley was released from the military on a bad-conduct discharge in 2014 after serving time for assaulting his wife and stepson. Edwards said that when the two made contact on Facebook in 2014, Kelley said he had been purchasing dogs through Craigslist and then using them for “target practice.” While in the Air Force, she said, Kelley was preoccupied with mass murders and made jokes about killing people. Edwards clarified that she didn’t know for sure if Kelley’s claim about shooting dogs was true, but the statement prompted her to cut off contact with him. The U.S. Air Force confirmed that Edwards and Kelley served at the base at the same time, but not whether they worked together directly, according to CNN.
In 2014, the same year he allegedly made the gruesome claim to Edwards, Kelley was cited for cruelty to animals in El Paso County, Colorado. Multiple witnesses said they saw Kelley beating a husky with his fists before dragging the dog away by the neck, The Denver Post reported. The county sheriff who responded to the incident noted back then that it seemed like Kelley was underfeeding the dog. A woman who was his neighbor at the time told The New York Times that she remembers Kelley keeping his dog tied up outside in the sun with no water. Kelley also had a history of domestic violence. The assaults that resulted in his Air Force discharge included striking his toddler stepson “severely enough that he fractured his skull,” according to the Times. And the Sutherland Springs massacre occurred after Kelley had sent threatening texts to his mother-in-law, who sometimes attended that church.
Experts say that both cruelty to animals and domestic violence can be predictors of other forms of violence. Most mass shootings in the United States, many of which never make national news, involve domestic violence. Kelley’s military conviction should have prevented him from legally buying a gun, but the Air Force failed to record it in a federal database. In recent years, there’s also been greater consensus among animal advocates, social workers and law enforcement that animal abuse is often an indicator of future violence toward humans. “People need to understand that it is never just the dog,” forensic veterinarian Martha Smith-Blackmore told HuffPost in 2015. Animal cruelty and violence toward people can even be directly intertwined. Domestic violence victims often report that their abusers also threatened to harm or kill the victims’ pets. A 1998 survey in New Jersey found that among homes where child abuse had occurred, 88 percent also had incidents of animal abuse.
In 2015, driven by the evidence of a strong link between violence toward animals and people, the FBI began collecting data on animal cruelty though its National Incident-Based Reporting System. This allows the FBI to analyze potential trends in animal abuse and how they might relate to other types of crime. But that doesn’t mean that all state and local law enforcement agencies around the country are taking animal cruelty more seriously. A January 2017 report from the Animal Legal Defense Fund found that some states still fail to mandate mental health evaluations or counseling for animal cruelty offenders or to require someone convicted of animal cruelty to give up their animals.
Texas Church Shooter Claimed He Used Dogs As Target Practice, Says Former Colleague
