one nation, under god

[Againsheila]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

I told you before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". If we were speaking Arabic, we would be saying Allah. If we were speaking spanish, we would be saying Dios, but since we are speaking English, it's "God".

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

Our children should learn self-respect, to be true to oneself, his convictions, regardless how unpopular. To not be bullied, intimidated, and compelled to conform only to appease the majority.

That is everyone’s America.

 

[Foxfyre]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

I told you before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. "Allah" is the Arabic word for "God". If we were speaking Arabic, we would be saying Allah. If we were speaking spanish, we would be saying Dios, but since we are speaking English, it's "God".

Anyhow, not a single one of the Founding Fathers was Muslim nor was there any Muslim influence in America at all at the time the country was pulled together into the Republic embodied in our Constitutionl. The hsitorical "God" was the one acknowledged by all the Founders as the grantor of unalienable rights. There is no historical reference to Allah as giving us rights and the Muslim faith does not recognize or respect unalienable rights. So it would be pretty silly and historically incorrect to put "under Allah" into a pledge of allegiance to the United States of America.

 

[Poli_Sigh]

He also said he was a Christian, a sect of one. He has to be read in the context of his writings and of the Age of Enlightenment.

Epicureanism and Christianity are not compatible since Epicureans believe that the soul dies with the body.

Damn, and here I thought epicurians just liked good food.

Are you sure he wasn't an Equestrian? I say this glibly because if not badly mistaken, TJ has most often been linked with Deism. He was a member of the Church of England (Anglican), but according to his friends and political peers was not a practicing one.

And if there are lingering doubts about his religious beliefs, I'm inclined to say his insistence that an individual's choice of religion be as free as the chooser should remove them That there be a separation of Church and State (yes, Michelle, those words do appear in the U.S. Constitution) was of paramount importance to guaranteeing a free people living in a free society.

No doubt his predilection to mistrust the mingling of the body politic with the body of religion was was formed from knowing first hand that such a marriage was not made in Heaven because its only offspring are tyranny and oppression. Europe was after all for many centuries under the thumb of both monarchs and popes.

 

[editec]

The words "under God" should never have been added to the pledge.

This is a SECULAR society, not a religious one.

 

[SFC Ollie]

First of all, allow me to remind you all that I have no opposition to removing the words "under God" from the pledge as long as it is not done to please a fringe minority.

Now let's look at Jeffersons words where this seems to be based.

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. "

What I see as the import and and clarifying word here is "THUS" I see it as my beloved cousin saying that because the constitution forbids making any laws establishing a state religion or preventing any citizen from practicing their religion, that this is the wall that was built. And in reallity it isn't much of a wall. Stop and think about it.

We (meaning our government) open each session of congress with a prayer.
We have the words in God we trust printed on or moneys
We have forbid certain religions from practicing their beliefs.
There are carvings of religious figures on and in our government buildings. This includes the term laus Deo, (praise be to God), inscribed upon the eastern face of the Washington monument.

So where is this separation at? It exists only where small groups of people want it to exist, at the time they want it.

If you truly want the words "Under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance or the words In God we Trust removed from our monies, then I suggest you get busy contacting Congressmen and Senators all over the country.....
But don't expect much, it's an election year.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

I don't deal much with what if's.
But what tyranny do I support? There are ways set into our laws to change things. More often than not it takes a majority to do so. I am simply against change for the sake of a small fringe minority. Show me where this isn't the case here......

 

[SFC Ollie]

Hey asshole, all I ask for is respect. Isn't that something that we are supposed to teach our children? Or is that something you don't believe in too?

you have to give it to get it

Well, there you go. Should be the thread killer.

Pretty much shows that certain groups of people do not want to teach their children about common respect.........

 

[SFC Ollie]

Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

Our children should learn self-respect, to be true to oneself, his convictions, regardless how unpopular. To not be bullied, intimidated, and compelled to conform only to appease the majority.

That is everyone’s America.

Our children should learn respect, yes for themselves and for others. there is no bullying here except for what you make of it. Is it being compelled to conform to learn to stop your car at a stop sign? Or is that appeasing the majority?

 

[SFC Ollie]

The words "under God" should never have been added to the pledge.

This is a SECULAR society, not a religious one.

Maybe it never should have been added, maybe there never should have been a pledge at all. But if you want it changed , you have a lot of calls and letters to write......

 

[Dr.Drock]

If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass on the ground everytime he hopped.

I don't debate what if's.

An insult is an insult no matter what form it takes. But I don't expect you to understand that.

The hypothetical is to help you understand the other viewpoint, by putting you in their shoes.

But you already know the answer and don't want to admit it. You know you'd be freaking out if the pledge said "one nation, not under god." You're afraid to admit it on an anonymous message board to someone you don't know and will never meet, and you call me a coward lol.

I'll type slowly so perhaps you can understand.

I don't answer hypotheticals especially ones that are so far from reality.

And yes I called you a coward.

I'll type even slower so perhaps you man up and stop being so scared on an anonymous message board.

If. The. Pledge. Endorsed. The. Non. Existence. Of. A. God. You. Would. Be. Throwing. A. Hissy. Fit.

But, like all blatant hypocrites, they want their way imposed on everyone but cry foul when the same thing is done to them.

I don't have to call you a coward, your fear of answering a hypothetical question on an anonmyous message board is you broadcasting to everyone that you're a coward.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Hell I call myself an asshole, it used to be in my job description............

We all know you are a male escort for black men.you dont have to remind us each time you log on.

Wow, such intellectual dribble. 4th grade graduate?

You keep crying about ad hominem, who was the one started with the ad hominem by calling me stupid when there was no insult directed your way?


Seems those who call others crybabies, tend to do the most pouting.

 

[Valerie]

The words "under God" should never have been added to the pledge.

This is a SECULAR society, not a religious one.

Maybe it never should have been added, maybe there never should have been a pledge at all. But if you want it changed , you have a lot of calls and letters to write......

What people are saying is that when they added the phrase back in the 50s THAT act was a form of deliberate "disrespect" and "bullying" the public to conform, so now some people are wanting to just undo that...

You may call them "fringe", but they are American citizens who feel affected by the requirement to pledge to something they aren't comfortable with at public school every morning. I haven't seen any evidence that the family who is suing has been in any way "disrespectful"...Have you? They feel like they are standing up for what they believe in.

 

[Newby]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

You might have a point when you can explain how tyranny of the minority is any better.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

You might have a point when you can explain how tyranny of the minority is any better.

It's not, there was no tyranny of the minority or majority pre-1954 on this issue. Hence why we should return to that.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The hypothetical is to help you understand the other viewpoint, by putting you in their shoes.

But you already know the answer and don't want to admit it. You know you'd be freaking out if the pledge said "one nation, not under god." You're afraid to admit it on an anonymous message board to someone you don't know and will never meet, and you call me a coward lol.

I'll type slowly so perhaps you can understand.

I don't answer hypotheticals especially ones that are so far from reality.

And yes I called you a coward.

I'll type even slower so perhaps you man up and stop being so scared on an anonymous message board.

If. The. Pledge. Endorsed. The. Non. Existence. Of. A. God. You. Would. Be. Throwing. A. Hissy. Fit.

But, like all blatant hypocrites, they want their way imposed on everyone but cry foul when the same thing is done to them.

I don't have to call you a coward, your fear of answering a hypothetical question on an anonmyous message board is you broadcasting to everyone that you're a coward.

When your opinion of me matters, then I'll worry. But don't hold your breath.

 

[Valerie]

I made a simple statement, I spelled it out for you in plain simple terms, and some here are too stupid to understand it.

Let's review what I have said in this thread:

Post 174:
"The 2 words should be removed if the majority wants them removed.

The 2 words should not be removed to please a small minority. "

Post 225

"They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly."


Post 261
"Once again, remove the words if the majority wants them removed.

Leave them be if they are to be removed for a small minority. Which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately the majority today won't care unless their handlers tell them to.... Left or right......"


Now I have tried to reason with some of you over these basic concepts of Respect for the flag and respect for others in the room. But it seems as though respect is not what we want our children to learn........ That is not my America........

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

You might have a point when you can explain how tyranny of the minority is any better.

I think the difference is that what the minority wants is not in any way tyrannical as they are not asking anyone else to pledge something they don't believe in, whereas the majority are...


Omitting the phrase does not inherently disrespect your belief, but it respects theirs...Adding the phrase inherently disrespected those who don't want to pledge to something they don't believe in.

 

[Intense]

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

You might have a point when you can explain how tyranny of the minority is any better.

It's not, there was no tyranny of the minority or majority pre-1954 on this issue. Hence why we should return to that.

There is Tyranny of the Minority everyday. Every Special Interest is a violation of Impartial Justice. Deal with it.

 

[Intense]

Not like we are comparing standing for the Pledge with, questioning Main Stream News, or questioning Global Warming, or questioning who's side Obama is really on.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I can't help but think that if the pledge said "under allah" you would think it everyones patriotic duty to remain seated.

I'm also kind of surprised that you support the tyranny of the majority.

You might have a point when you can explain how tyranny of the minority is any better.

I think the difference is that what the minority wants is not in any way tyrannical as they are not asking anyone else to pledge something they don't believe in, whereas the majority are...


Omitting the phrase does not inherently disrespect your belief, but it respects theirs...Adding the phrase inherently disrespected those who don't want to pledge to something they don't believe in.

Why should the majority cave in to the minority?

We should omit the word to respect their beliefs?

Why can't they accept the word and respect our beliefs?

Where is the tolerance?

I think the majority has tolerated the nonsense of the minority for far too long.