Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Fort Fun Indiana]

One was coaches and players praying before a game. This does not establish a religion.

Sure it does, when it is led by the coach.

Prayer in the classroom does not establish a religion.

Sure it does, when it is led by the teacher.

Information on any religion does not establish that religion as a State religion.

Sure it does, when it is presented outside of curriculum.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Appears you're the only one attempting to inject "tendrils."

separation of Church and State. Congress shall make no law..., remember? Yet government tendrils all over our practice of religion. I am for removing all tendrils.

Clearly familiar with the term..? Your bold and everything..?

Okay, well, in case you somehow remain blissfully unaware:

The phrase of Jefferson (see above) was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947.[79] The Supreme Court did not consider the question of how this applied to the states until 1947; when they did, in Everson v. Board of Education, the court incorporated the establishment clause, determining that it applied to the states and that a law enabling reimbursement for busing to all schools (including parochial schools) was constitutional.[80]

 

[Grumblenuts]

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[20]

- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, well, in case you somehow remain blissfully unaware:

Knowing what "establishment" entails is far from making me "unaware". I am for freedom. I am unafraid of it. Seems freedom makes some uncomfortable?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Okay, well, in case you somehow remain blissfully unaware:

Knowing what "establishment" entails is far from making me "unaware". I am for freedom. I am unafraid of it. Seems freedom makes some uncomfortable?

I'm for freedom (from religion). You're the one who was going on about "tendrils" - sounding quite uncomfortable.. Still waiting for that definition, btw..?

I am for removing all tendrils.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Instead of no sign of religion, we should have signs from all religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity

"If God was here he'd tell you to your face, man, you're some kinda sinner"
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind

 

[Meriweather]

Still waiting for that definition, btw..?

Asked and answered.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm for freedom (from religion).

I am for freedom from drugs. How should we go about implementing this freedom?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Still waiting for that definition, btw..?

Asked and answered.

So you have none. Just being deliberately incoherent I gather.. What.......ever!

I'm for freedom (from religion).

I am for freedom from drugs. How should we go about implementing this freedom?

What's the topic?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I am for freedom from drugs. How should we go about implementing this freedom?

Well, you get a time machine and rewrite the constitution, if your wish is to compare drugs to religion.

 

[BreezeWood]

Something you and Catholics agree on

Oh my word! I didn't know I couldn't preach! Why didn't someone stop me! And the last time was so recent! Woe is me! Shame! Shame! Shame! (Now I'll stop laughing.)

The guy even sited passages in the Bible that talked against women preachers.

Now upyou see you can find a passage in the Bible for anything. I even found where it said being gay doesn’t matter but most Christians disagree with my interpretation of two women grinding

All forms of Greek pornea, including homosexual acts, are condemned in both the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures - for example:

Romans 1:24-27
Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated* and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion,+ for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;+ 27 likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males,+ working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.+

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom?+ Do not be misled.* Those who are sexually immoral,+ idolaters,+ adulterers,+ men who submit to homosexual acts,+ men who practice homosexuality,+ 10 thieves, greedy people,+ drunkards,+ revilers, and extortioners+ will not inherit God’s Kingdom.+ 11 And yet that is what some of you were.+ But you have been washed clean;+ you have been sanctified;+ you have been declared righteous+ in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.+

However, same sex friendships are encouraged in the Bible - a good example is Ruth and Naomi:

Ruth 1:16,17
But Ruth said: “Do not plead with me to abandon you, to turn back from accompanying you; for where you go I will go, and where you spend the night, I will spend the night. Your people will be my people, and your God my God.+ 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May Jehovah do so to me and add to it if anything but death should separate me from you.”

Note that Naomi was Ruth's mother-in-law and that they were both widows, though Naomi had lost both her
sons in death.

In Greek there are 4 words for love - only one of these is to be between husband and wife (or betrothed as in the example in the Song of Solomon) - namely romantic love and affection:

1. Eros - romantic love
2. Agape - love based on principles (wide range e.g. love for God (Mt.22:37-40) and for one's enemies (Mt.5:44)
3. Philia - brotherly affection (this includes spiritual brothers and sisters)
4. Storge - family love. (this includes one's spiritual family).

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom?

True Christians are those who actually follow what Jesus taught.

.
the fallacies and forgeries can not mask the examples passed through generations the spoken religion what the religious itinerant intentionally made obvious for all walks of life as the same value by the beings own judgement for the values to have real meaning.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, you get a time machine and rewrite the constitution, if your wish is to compare drugs to religion.

The point being missed is that I am speaking of freedom. Is freedom defined differently when it is about religion?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well, you get a time machine and rewrite the constitution, if your wish is to compare drugs to religion.

The point being missed is that I am speaking of freedom. Is freedom defined differently when it is about religion?

Don't feed this red herring argument.

The government could never force your child to be a certain religion.

But they can force you to let a doctor give a lifesaving drug to your child.

As it should be.

 

[Meriweather]

Don't feed this red herring argument.

The government could never force your child to be a certain religion.

But they can force you to let a doctor give a lifesaving drug to your child.

As it should be.

As you have moved the goal posts, carry on without me.

 

[BreezeWood]

Don't feed this red herring argument.

The government could never force your child to be a certain religion.

But they can force you to let a doctor give a lifesaving drug to your child.

As it should be.

As you have moved the goal posts, carry on without me.

As you have moved the goal posts, carry on without me.

.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Is freedom defined differently when it is about religion?

Yes, it is. Drugs, being substantive rather than ideological, call for entirely different regulation or lack thereof. This topic is about freedom of/from religion. In this country, our Constitution guarantees our freedom to choose between religious beliefs -or- to be entirely free of any such indoctrination. Free of religious inculcation. No government -body, -institution, nor -individual representative allowed to force religious doctrine upon anyone here. No "In God We Trust." No "Under God." No Jesus Camp in our public/state schools. Whether in public or in private, free of any such creepy, government "tendrils" (influence, suggestion, interference, sanction, prodding).

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, it is. Drugs, being substantive rather than ideological, call for entirely different regulation or lack thereof. This topic is about freedom of/from religion. In this country, our Constitution guarantees our freedom to choose between religious beliefs -or- to be entirely free of any such indoctrination. Free of religious inculcation. No government -body, -institution, nor -individual representative allowed to force religious doctrine upon anyone here. No "In God We Trust." No "Under God." No Jesus Camp in our public/state schools. Whether in public or in private, free of any such creepy, government "tendrils" (influence, suggestion, interference, sanction, prodding).

Again, we are talking past each other. I am speaking of freedom while you are focused on regulation. You are saying religion, like drugs, needs to be regulated. The Founding Fathers were against regulating religion. There will be no law regarding religion. State was to have a hands off approach, and remain separated from what religion. You are in favor of regulating religion, and you want the Federal government to do this regulating. Correct?

 

[Grumblenuts]

I am speaking of freedom while you are

What???

Yes, it is. Drugs, being substantive rather than ideological, call for entirely different regulation or lack thereof. This topic is about freedom of/from religion. In this country, our Constitution guarantees our freedom to choose between religious beliefs -or- to be entirely free of any such indoctrination. Free of religious inculcation. No government -body, -institution, nor -individual representative allowed to force religious doctrine upon anyone here. No "In God We Trust." No "Under God." No Jesus Camp in our public/state schools. Whether in public or in private, free of any such creepy, government "tendrils" (influence, suggestion, interference, sanction, prodding).

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes, it is. Drugs, being substantive rather than ideological, call for entirely different regulation or lack thereof. This topic is about freedom of/from religion. In this country, our Constitution guarantees our freedom to choose between religious beliefs -or- to be entirely free of any such indoctrination. Free of religious inculcation. No government -body, -institution, nor -individual representative allowed to force religious doctrine upon anyone here. No "In God We Trust." No "Under God." No Jesus Camp in our public/state schools. Whether in public or in private, free of any such creepy, government "tendrils" (influence, suggestion, interference, sanction, prodding).

Again, we are talking past each other. I am speaking of freedom while you are focused on regulation. You are saying religion, like drugs, needs to be regulated. The Founding Fathers were against regulating religion. There will be no law regarding religion. State was to have a hands off approach, and remain separated from what religion. You are in favor of regulating religion, and you want the Federal government to do this regulating. Correct?

There will be no law regarding religion.

.
that is not what the amendment states ...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

laws preventing the establishment of religion are permissible.

 

[sealybobo]

Something you and Catholics agree on

Oh my word! I didn't know I couldn't preach! Why didn't someone stop me! And the last time was so recent! Woe is me! Shame! Shame! Shame! (Now I'll stop laughing.)

The guy even sited passages in the Bible that talked against women preachers.

Now upyou see you can find a passage in the Bible for anything. I even found where it said being gay doesn’t matter but most Christians disagree with my interpretation of two women grinding

All forms of Greek pornea, including homosexual acts, are condemned in both the Hebrew and Christian Greek Scriptures - for example:

Romans 1:24-27
Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated* and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. 26 That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion,+ for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;+ 27 likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males,+ working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.+

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom?+ Do not be misled.* Those who are sexually immoral,+ idolaters,+ adulterers,+ men who submit to homosexual acts,+ men who practice homosexuality,+ 10 thieves, greedy people,+ drunkards,+ revilers, and extortioners+ will not inherit God’s Kingdom.+ 11 And yet that is what some of you were.+ But you have been washed clean;+ you have been sanctified;+ you have been declared righteous+ in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.+

However, same sex friendships are encouraged in the Bible - a good example is Ruth and Naomi:

Ruth 1:16,17
But Ruth said: “Do not plead with me to abandon you, to turn back from accompanying you; for where you go I will go, and where you spend the night, I will spend the night. Your people will be my people, and your God my God.+ 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May Jehovah do so to me and add to it if anything but death should separate me from you.”

Note that Naomi was Ruth's mother-in-law and that they were both widows, though Naomi had lost both her
sons in death.

In Greek there are 4 words for love - only one of these is to be between husband and wife (or betrothed as in the example in the Song of Solomon) - namely romantic love and affection:

1. Eros - romantic love
2. Agape - love based on principles (wide range e.g. love for God (Mt.22:37-40) and for one's enemies (Mt.5:44)
3. Philia - brotherly affection (this includes spiritual brothers and sisters)
4. Storge - family love. (this includes one's spiritual family).

Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom?

True Christians are those who actually follow what Jesus taught.

.
the fallacies and forgeries can not mask the examples passed through generations the spoken religion what the religious itinerant intentionally made obvious for all walks of life as the same value by the beings own judgement for the values to have real meaning.

I think it's hilarious that the born agains say the catholics got it all wrong but the catholics say the born agains got it all wrong.

I say they are both wrong. So technically I agree with both of them.