Oregon said Obama stay away..so guess who's coming to Roseburg?

[Old Rocks]

Talking about policies that don't work...increasing the prison population would be exhibit A.

How many of Chicago's distinguished citizens housed at Menard Correctional Center shot someone in a drive by last week?

You gotta admit. It's funny. Chicago has stringent gun laws. But Chicago is completely surrounded by Rednecks selling guns like popcorn.

So you got all these rednecks selling guns to thugs and then complaining that so many thugs illegally own guns so that proves the laws don't work? It's like them saying government doesn't work and the entire time making sure it doesn't work. What are Rednecks good for? What do the bring to the country?

I know, I know, I can't think of anything either.

The problem in liberal Chicago is not rednecks buying guns. The problem is that there is so much crime that judges are forced to slap people on the hands when they are caught illegally possessing a firearm. They simply go back out into the street, get another gun and they're ready for warfare.

Sounds like another anecdote with no real substance. Besides rednecks SELLING guns could be part of the problem.

Rednecks are not out in the streets of Chicago selling guns to brothers. Read up on Chicago sometime. There are plenty of stories out there about the overcrowded prisons that make it near impossible to lock up everybody with a gun.

If you're trying to solve a problem or come close to it, you have to look at what worked in the past. Stop and Frisk produced some amazing results in NYC. Now that it's gone, the tide is swinging the other way. So what's the problem? Liberals and liberalism.

Nope. The rednecks are shooting up schools in areas predominately white.

 

[Old Rocks]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

Yep, people that cherish the ability to protect themselves are a huge problem in this country.

 

[NYcarbineer]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

Yep, people that cherish the ability to protect themselves are a huge problem in this country.

So felons and the insane deserve an equal right to 'protect' themselves, with guns?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

Yep, people that cherish the ability to protect themselves are a huge problem in this country.

So felons and the insane deserve an equal right to 'protect' themselves, with guns?

What does that have to do with anything I said?

 

[Ernie S.]

It's already against the law to sell a gun to an insane person, dolt.

How's THAT working out.

Does that include private gun sales or gun show sales? I've given you a piece of the puzzle, it is up to you to fit it in the right place... come on you can do it!

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

 

[Ernie S.]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

Yep, people that cherish the ability to protect themselves are a huge problem in this country.

So felons and the insane deserve an equal right to 'protect' themselves, with guns?

No one ever said or implied that, idiot. and anyone who supposes they can judge character from an avatar on a message board is just too fucking retarded to exist outside a maximum security institution.

 

[Papageorgio]

By the way, Ray, your avatar tells me all I need to know about you and your character. You are definately part of the problem.

Yep, people that cherish the ability to protect themselves are a huge problem in this country.

So felons and the insane deserve an equal right to 'protect' themselves, with guns?

What does that have to do with anything I said?

It has nothing to do with what you said, it is his MO, he has no real argument so he takes you out of context and runs with it.

 

[idb]

Does that include private gun sales or gun show sales? I've given you a piece of the puzzle, it is up to you to fit it in the right place... come on you can do it!

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

Just look at the places that have them already. Look what it takes to own a gun in a state like California. Google Stossle and see if you can find the video of him trying to get a CCW in New York and see what he had to go through only to be denied.

 

[Ernie S.]

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

This guy in Oregon got his guns from a family member. So did the Charleston shooter. So did the Sandy Hook shooter. Ft Hood? He was legal to purchase and own a gun. The Colorado movie shooter purchased all his guns legally.

For the life of me, I can't see where this registration thing would prevent any past or future mass shootings. These Democrat politicians put these ideas in the heads of their constituents and like robots, they ask no questions. Just follow orders and repeat what you've been told.

Unbelievable.

 

[idb]

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

This guy in Oregon got his guns from a family member. So did the Charleston shooter. So did the Sandy Hook shooter. Ft Hood? He was legal to purchase and own a gun. The Colorado movie shooter purchased all his guns legally.

For the life of me, I can't see where this registration thing would prevent any past or future mass shootings. These Democrat politicians put these ideas in the heads of their constituents and like robots, they ask no questions. Just follow orders and repeat what you've been told.

Unbelievable.

I repeat the question...and maybe you'd like to think about it because it's a little nuanced and I know you don't do nuance.
Do you know how many killings have been prevented because background checks stopped someone getting a gun...or made it difficult enough that they gave up trying to get a gun?

Now, I'm guessing your answer would be "No, I don't know that", and you'd be right to say that because no one could ever know that.
So, assuming that's your answer it follows that you can't say that background checks don't work...because maybe they do and have already saved lives.

 

[JQPublic1]

Talking about policies that don't work...increasing the prison population would be exhibit A.

How many of Chicago's distinguished citizens housed at Menard Correctional Center shot someone in a drive by last week?

You gotta admit. It's funny. Chicago has stringent gun laws. But Chicago is completely surrounded by Rednecks selling guns like popcorn.

So you got all these rednecks selling guns to thugs and then complaining that so many thugs illegally own guns so that proves the laws don't work? It's like them saying government doesn't work and the entire time making sure it doesn't work. What are Rednecks good for? What do the bring to the country?

I know, I know, I can't think of anything either.

The problem in liberal Chicago is not rednecks buying guns. The problem is that there is so much crime that judges are forced to slap people on the hands when they are caught illegally possessing a firearm. They simply go back out into the street, get another gun and they're ready for warfare.

Sounds like another anecdote with no real substance. Besides rednecks SELLING guns could be part of the problem.

Rednecks are not out in the streets of Chicago selling guns to brothers. Read up on Chicago sometime. There are plenty of stories out there about the overcrowded prisons that make it near impossible to lock up everybody with a gun.

If you're trying to solve a problem or come close to it, you have to look at what worked in the past. Stop and Frisk produced some amazing results in NYC. Now that it's gone, the tide is swinging the other way. So what's the problem? Liberals and liberalism.

It wasn't liberalism that put the skids on Stop and Frisk, it was the US Constitution!

 

[JQPublic1]

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

This guy in Oregon got his guns from a family member. So did the Charleston shooter. So did the Sandy Hook shooter. Ft Hood? He was legal to purchase and own a gun. The Colorado movie shooter purchased all his guns legally.

For the life of me, I can't see where this registration thing would prevent any past or future mass shootings. These Democrat politicians put these ideas in the heads of their constituents and like robots, they ask no questions. Just follow orders and repeat what you've been told.

Unbelievable.

I agree with most of what you say but I don't buy the "democrats putting ideas in people's head" canard. The American people, regardless of party affiliation, are smarter than that. They can see through the bullshit of either party. That is how Obama became president despite the republican blitz by Limnbugh radio and Fox news.

 

[JQPublic1]

Does that include private gun sales or gun show sales? I've given you a piece of the puzzle, it is up to you to fit it in the right place... come on you can do it!

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

What proposals did I make?

 

[Ernie S.]

Yes. It does. I quoted the law and linked to the US Code. Does it say ANYWHERE, except for at gun shows?

It is illegal already to sell a weapon to a felon or an insane person. The maximum penalty is 10 years. NO LOOP HOLE, capisce?

Wiat. Stop! Pull yourself together... If a stranger answers a newspaper add and buys a gun from the owner, there is NO background check...capice? SAME FOR A GUN SHOW... GUNS ARE SOLD TO STRANGERS WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.... re you always this stupid or are you having a senior moment?

Correct! No background check, but it is STILL a felony Why does it need to be a felony to sell a gun to a felon TWICE? Is a criminal then twice as likely to break or follow the law?
I doubt you have ever touched a gun, let alone sold one so I'll educate you. LEGAL gun owners take their responsibilities rather seriously. We tend to value our freedom and rights to the point where we make it our duty to know who we hand a gun to.
No one I have ever sold to was a criminal. Every one was known to me to be of good character.
Street thugs who sell guns out of the trunk of their cars are already criminals and prohibited from possessing weapons, much less selling them. They don't take anything seriously, especially their duty to their fellow man. They don't care who they sell to as long as the person ahas enough money so that they can get their next bag of heroin. Making private sales of guns by criminals to criminals is redundant and stupid, stupid.

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

What proposals did I make?

You tell me? I assume you want "to close the gun show loophole" like other idiotic Liberals. #1. There is no loophole and #2, requiring background checks for all private sales would be ineffective at anything but infringing the rights of law abiding citizens.

Propose something that would work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

This guy in Oregon got his guns from a family member. So did the Charleston shooter. So did the Sandy Hook shooter. Ft Hood? He was legal to purchase and own a gun. The Colorado movie shooter purchased all his guns legally.

For the life of me, I can't see where this registration thing would prevent any past or future mass shootings. These Democrat politicians put these ideas in the heads of their constituents and like robots, they ask no questions. Just follow orders and repeat what you've been told.

Unbelievable.

I agree with most of what you say but I don't buy the "democrats putting ideas in people's head" canard. The American people, regardless of party affiliation, are smarter than that. They can see through the bullshit of either party. That is how Obama became president despite the republican blitz by Limnbugh radio and Fox news.

OMG, it's like somebody wrote this for a show.

First you say that Democrat politicians are not brainwashing their followers with what to say and what to think, and then you finish with the typical Fox News and Limbaugh line.

You can't make this stuff up!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How many of Chicago's distinguished citizens housed at Menard Correctional Center shot someone in a drive by last week?

You gotta admit. It's funny. Chicago has stringent gun laws. But Chicago is completely surrounded by Rednecks selling guns like popcorn.

So you got all these rednecks selling guns to thugs and then complaining that so many thugs illegally own guns so that proves the laws don't work? It's like them saying government doesn't work and the entire time making sure it doesn't work. What are Rednecks good for? What do the bring to the country?

I know, I know, I can't think of anything either.

The problem in liberal Chicago is not rednecks buying guns. The problem is that there is so much crime that judges are forced to slap people on the hands when they are caught illegally possessing a firearm. They simply go back out into the street, get another gun and they're ready for warfare.

Sounds like another anecdote with no real substance. Besides rednecks SELLING guns could be part of the problem.

Rednecks are not out in the streets of Chicago selling guns to brothers. Read up on Chicago sometime. There are plenty of stories out there about the overcrowded prisons that make it near impossible to lock up everybody with a gun.

If you're trying to solve a problem or come close to it, you have to look at what worked in the past. Stop and Frisk produced some amazing results in NYC. Now that it's gone, the tide is swinging the other way. So what's the problem? Liberals and liberalism.

It wasn't liberalism that put the skids on Stop and Frisk, it was the US Constitution!

So the US Constitution jumped out and made DeBlaahzio put a stop to it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Good character can be a subjective thing. Whenever guns change hands with no paper trail or documentation there is always the chance for ulterior things to occur. Your modus operandi
is admirable but why should the society at large trust you or anyone else to do the right thing just because YOU decide who is or is not a person of good character? I know, it doesn't really matter since guns are all over the place and even thugs have plenty of them.

But thugs do not generally go to churches or schools to commit mass murder. Further, the loser nerds who perpetrate those kind of killings are too afraid to go in to thug territory to buy their guns. Those type of killers usually go the legal route. typically they have no criminal record and appear to be just ordinary joes protected by the 2nd Amendment. Even YOu might have sold a gun to any of them.

It would be possible that someone with my sense of responsibility may have sold a weapon to someone like Adam Lanza's mother, but I believe she acquired her weapons by retail sales with background checks, records; the whole 9 yards.
Her son murdered her. Circumstances of that are unknown. Could it be that he killed his mother because she was trying to prevent the rampage her son was about to go on? Interesting twist, but it can never be more than a supposition.....
Other school shooters stole weapons from parents as well and yes, some purchased their weapons legally.
Those that purchased their weapons were subject to background checks. NONE, to my knowledge bought weapons from a private seller at a gun show. None acquired weapons that they wouldn't have obtained if all private sales were subject to background checks. Your proposals would have accomplished NOTHING but inconveniencing tens of thousands of sane, law abiding persons as they tried to purchase a legal product in a legal transaction between them and another person who had every right to legally sell a firearm.
SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WORK.

How do you know how many killings have been prevented by background checks already?
You're saying that they don't work...how do you know?

I would guess..... none. Perhaps you have some data to prove me wrong?
The one recent mass shooter that could not have passed a background check acquired guns without one, didn't he?

My GOD man! A box of rocks has 70 IQ points on you.

This guy in Oregon got his guns from a family member. So did the Charleston shooter. So did the Sandy Hook shooter. Ft Hood? He was legal to purchase and own a gun. The Colorado movie shooter purchased all his guns legally.

For the life of me, I can't see where this registration thing would prevent any past or future mass shootings. These Democrat politicians put these ideas in the heads of their constituents and like robots, they ask no questions. Just follow orders and repeat what you've been told.

Unbelievable.

I repeat the question...and maybe you'd like to think about it because it's a little nuanced and I know you don't do nuance.
Do you know how many killings have been prevented because background checks stopped someone getting a gun...or made it difficult enough that they gave up trying to get a gun?

Now, I'm guessing your answer would be "No, I don't know that", and you'd be right to say that because no one could ever know that.
So, assuming that's your answer it follows that you can't say that background checks don't work...because maybe they do and have already saved lives.

So your suggestion here is that we expand a law that we don't whether it works or not?

Can you and I agree on something here? Murder is a very serious thing. It's not like it's a last minute decision even for crazy people. It's not like choosing between French and Italian dressing for your salad.

That being said, the mindset of a murderer is not going to be deterred by something so incredibly fragile as a background check law.