Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom

[Spoonman]

I get a kick out of visualizing the gun nut fantasy world, in which, he and his militia buddies stand against the United States Army, fully expecting that, either:
1) The Army will be intimated by their AR-15's and retreat or surrender, or,
2) They will somehow defeat the United States army, and survive the experience.

For these people, I suggest that they Google "Waco"

Another lib who seems to think we should fear the US military.
Psssssst......here's a little secret. They would be on our side.

I nominate this post for the Spammy Award for the most delusion post of the day!!!!!!!!

so if our army of A 15's are not a threat, why try to eliminate them?

 

[Saigon]

Spooon -

I don't think things are going well in the US at all - I totally understand your concerns about unemployment etc, although I also have to point out that anything thinking person can see the US stats are often better than countries with conservative governments.

But I would rather put my faith in democracy than I would in a group of inbred hillbilly Deliverance fans in fake military uniforms, no matter how many guns they own. Do you really think a militia government is going to give a shit about your freedom?


btw. Don't forget to go back to the thread where you posted your communist manifesto!

The irony is just too much. You have a thread asking why conservatives hate liberals and then say you do not see an 'in kind' reply from liberals.

Yet here you are, unprovoked, insulting as many people as you can who do not agree with your point of view.

I am insulting inbred Deliverance fans in fake military gear - no one else.

Or do you think that includes all Conservatives?

 

[legaleagle_45]

Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom - Casey Michel - The Atlantic

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom. Conversely, autocratic or authoritarian countries tend to have lower gun ownership rates and have substantially fewer personal and economic freedoms. Is there a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations

available at:

Is There a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations by David Kopel, Carlisle Moody, Howard Nemerov :: SSRN

These facts epitomize the wisdom of the author of the 2nd Amendment, James Madison:

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which asimple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

 

[Spoonman]

Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom - Casey Michel - The Atlantic

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom. Conversely, autocratic or authoritarian countries tend to have lower gun ownership rates and have substantially fewer personal and economic freedoms. Is there a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations

available at:

Is There a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations by David Kopel, Carlisle Moody, Howard Nemerov :: SSRN

These facts epitomize the wisdom of the author of the 2nd Amendment, James Madison:

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which asimple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

repable post. I'm out right now but I'll get you later

 

[Saigon]

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom.

Really?

So countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Holland and Canada are corrupt are they?

Because they have low gun ownerhip.

And countries like Zimbabwe, Venezuela, DR Congo and Russia are models of freedom?

Because they have much higher gun ownership.

Jesus wept....what utter, utter bullshit gets posted on this board...and in this case you clearly didn't even dare to link the actual study.

 

[Spoonman]

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom.

Really?

So countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Holland and Canada are corrupt are they?

Because they have low gun ownerhip.

And countries like Zimbabwe, Venezuela, DR Congo and Russia are models of freedom?

Because they have much higher gun ownership.

Jesus wept....what utter, utter bullshit gets posted on this board...and in this case you clearly didn't even dare to link the actual study.

yea, i love how the liberals always link biased opinion pieces too. gives them so much credibility

 

[Spoonman]

oh yea, you may want to check your facts too. Sweden and norway are in the top 10 countries where people own guns, germany in the top 15 countries. while DR Congo with 1.4/ 100 and zimbabwe with 4.6 are near the bottom. at least venezuela with 10/100 falls somewhere near the middle. your own "facts" just totally blew your point of view right out of the water. jesus wept when he read your post lol

 

[legaleagle_45]

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom.

Really?

Yep, you might wish to actually read it before you condemn it. For example, Canada actually has a high firearm ownership percentage as does Switzerland. China is one of the very few countries that bars the private ownership of all firearms... some of the strictist firearm controls in the western world are found in the UK, but they also have a surprising number of shotguns in private hands.

 

[PaulS1950]

The shotguns in the UK are kept under lock and key at the shooting ranges. They are not "in private hands". It is against the law to have a firearm in your home in England. That includes shotguns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The shotguns in the UK are kept under lock and key at the shooting ranges. They are not "in private hands". It is against the law to have a firearm in your home in England. That includes shotguns.

How to the people in the UK defend themselves from burglars?

 

[PaulS1950]

The shotguns in the UK are kept under lock and key at the shooting ranges. They are not "in private hands". It is against the law to have a firearm in your home in England. That includes shotguns.

How to the people in the UK defend themselves from burglars?

They are told to leave their homes and call the police. If they try to defend their property or themselves they are arrested. The police actually do show up - sometimes two days later.

Try that if you are ever burglarized.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The shotguns in the UK are kept under lock and key at the shooting ranges. They are not "in private hands". It is against the law to have a firearm in your home in England. That includes shotguns.

How to the people in the UK defend themselves from burglars?

They are told to leave their homes and call the police. If they try to defend their property or themselves they are arrested.

So, there is no right to self-defense in the UK - that is, the state has a monopoly on force?
I thought the UK was a free country...?
How can you be free if you have no right to defend yourself?

 

[Spoonman]

How to the people in the UK defend themselves from burglars?

They are told to leave their homes and call the police. If they try to defend their property or themselves they are arrested.

So, there is no right to self-defense in the UK - that is, the state has a monopoly on force?
I thought the UK was a free country...?
How can you be free if you have no right to defend yourself?

damn it sounds like NY now. Ever since albany became Moscow on the Hudson and the safe act passed - no one is safe

 

[hortysir]

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom.

Really?

So countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Holland and Canada are corrupt are they?

Because they have low gun ownerhip.

And countries like Zimbabwe, Venezuela, DR Congo and Russia are models of freedom?

Because they have much higher gun ownership.

Jesus wept....what utter, utter bullshit gets posted on this board...and in this case you clearly didn't even dare to link the actual study.

You read a 47 page report in 25 minutes?


Before I paste this particular quote from the study, maybe you should Google the definition of "per capita".



Ok?


Ready?

Using data on per capita firearm ownership fro the Small Arms Survey,12 this Article examines the relationship between per capita firearm rates and several measures of freedom. These measures are:
 Freedom House‘s ratings of political rights (such as free elections) and civil liberty (such as freedom of religion).
 Transparency International‘s ratings of government corruption levels.
 Heritage Foundation‘s ratings of economic freedom.
 World Bank‘s ratings of economic success.

 

[hortysir]

Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom - Casey Michel - The Atlantic

A study of the 59 countries shows that countries with the highest gun ownership rates also tend to have the lowest corruption rates and the most personal and economic freedom. Conversely, autocratic or authoritarian countries tend to have lower gun ownership rates and have substantially fewer personal and economic freedoms. Is there a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations

available at:

Is There a Relationship between Guns and Freedom? Comparative Results from 59 Nations by David Kopel, Carlisle Moody, Howard Nemerov :: SSRN

These facts epitomize the wisdom of the author of the 2nd Amendment, James Madison:

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which asimple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

Downloaded and saved.
Thank you

 

[legaleagle_45]

The shotguns in the UK are kept under lock and key at the shooting ranges. They are not "in private hands". It is against the law to have a firearm in your home in England. That includes shotguns.

That would be true for rifles and handguns (generally illegal absent extraordinary circumstances), not for shotguns, Paul.

In contrast, shotguns tend to be used in more general rural circumstances, such as by farmers who are protecting livestock from foxes - and police recognise that landowners need guns for pest control.

BBC News - Gun control and ownership laws in the UK

Under UK law, shotguns are not even classified as firearms..

 

[Saigon]

Hortysir -

I did not read the report because it was not linked - by all means check the link yourself. It leads nowhere.

The report is obviously nonsense, and I'm sure the guy who posted it knows that too.

Per capita stats are only going to make things worse for you, because even countries with low population and low rates of gun ownership (Denmark, New Zealand, Ireland) have lower per capita murder rates than similar countries with high levels of gun ownership (Estonia, Cuba, Zimbabwe).

Countries ranked by per capita gun ownership:

1. USA
2. Yemen
3. Switzerland
4. Finland
5. Serbia
6. Cyprus
7. Saudi Arabia
8. Iraq
9. Uruguay
10. Sweden

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

Notice how many of these countries are VERY free - such as Iraq, Serbia and Saudi Arabia!!!

 

[Saigon]

oh yea, you may want to check your facts too. Sweden and norway are in the top 10 countries where people own guns, germany in the top 15 countries. while DR Congo with 1.4/ 100 and zimbabwe with 4.6 are near the bottom. at least venezuela with 10/100 falls somewhere near the middle. your own "facts" just totally blew your point of view right out of the water. jesus wept when he read your post lol

And you think every weapon in Zimbabwe and Congo is legally owned, do you?

Spot the person who has never been to either - both countries are riddled with guns!

You also forgot to mention that Yemen, Serbia and Iraq are in the Top 10 - how safe are they?

Sweden & Norway both have strong moose hunting traditions, so have a fair number of guns used solely for that purposes. That means that for much of the year the guns are locked away, and are rarely taken out at all. Guns used on farms and in rural areas will always be safer than those used in urban areas or for reasons other than sport.

If we rank the Top 20 countries by homicide rate and by gun ownership - it usually correlates at 17 or 18 out of 20. It is a statistical fact - amd has been proven to be so by a dozen reliable studies.

 

[Politico]

You hate guns we get it.

 

[hortysir]

Hortysir -

I did not read the report because it was not linked - by all means check the link yourself. It leads nowhere.

The report is obviously nonsense, and I'm sure the guy who posted it knows that too.

Per capita stats are only going to make things worse for you, because even countries with low population and low rates of gun ownership (Denmark, New Zealand, Ireland) have lower per capita murder rates than similar countries with high levels of gun ownership (Estonia, Cuba, Zimbabwe).

Countries ranked by per capita gun ownership:

1. USA
2. Yemen
3. Switzerland
4. Finland
5. Serbia
6. Cyprus
7. Saudi Arabia
8. Iraq
9. Uruguay
10. Sweden

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | guardian.co.uk

Notice how many of these countries are VERY free - such as Iraq, Serbia and Saudi Arabia!!!

That was only one of four different qualifiers used in the study.
If you follow the link, there's a big button that says "Download Report"
It's a .pdf file and it's harmless
It really is a good read if you take the time