Paid time off for me, no paid time off for you.

[pknopp]

I will note, you only say that the employers must give up something, but never mention the shareholders giving up something.

So you will continue to pay more in taxes for welfare so shareholders can be happy.

Well that's true, because the shareholders are simply... not going to give up something.

I'm a shareholder myself. I own stock in many companies.

I can promise you, that once a year, I review my investments. If I see that my investments are not paying off, then I sell them off, and buy investments that do pay off.

I'm sure there are professional investors who check every month, and review what is paying off, and what is not. Companies that fail to payout to investors (shareholders), will end up losing investments, or having the shareholders vote out management, and replacing them with people who do the job.

I think this is another one of those areas, where people think "everyone else should do... what I would never do".

Because you would never do that. You would never invest thousands of dollars, and not get a good return on your investment. Honestly, if I didn't get a good return, I could move my money over seas. I already have open investments in Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong (yes, which is now china).

Why would I cut my ROI on investments, when I have tens of thousands in investments? If you are going to cut that down, I would just put my money in CDs, and not take the risk of stock investments. There has to be a pay off, worth the risk of the investment.

The world should not revolve around "shareholders". A company can be profitable but still get crushed because they are not "profitable" enough.

People shouldn't have to apply for welfare because 8% isn't enough for shareholders.

you continue to speak in generic terms about specific events. which "people" are suffering? prove it's because of shareholders vs. you just taking the "big money = bad" approach and using soft terminology to define your hard beliefs.

you keep using these extreme situations and trying to pass them off as common occurrences. not *everything* should be addressed nor fixed and these generic "down with the rich" is bullshit to the core.

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

How do you know what there is, or is not, a justification for?

If the demand out paces demand, the price goes up. Every indication is that the price followed the supply and demand curve pretty well.

Just like price is following the supply and demand curve now.

Demand has fallen, and supply is high, so prices have fallen.

It's always funny how people who know literally nothing about any given market, are always talking about how they knew when a price is justified or not.

The oil producers noted many times that there was plenty of oil and there is no justification for the prices.

There were tankers sitting idle full of oil.

I can remember being told to get used to it, oil would always be over $100 a barrel. It's too bad I can't ask that person today about that prediction.

 

[pknopp]

The world should not revolve around "shareholders". A company can be profitable but still get crushed because they are not "profitable" enough.

People shouldn't have to apply for welfare because 8% isn't enough for shareholders.

you continue to speak in generic terms about specific events. which "people" are suffering? prove it's because of shareholders vs. you just taking the "big money = bad" approach and using soft terminology to define your hard beliefs.

you keep using these extreme situations and trying to pass them off as common occurrences. not *everything* should be addressed nor fixed and these generic "down with the rich" is bullshit to the core.

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

 

[iceberg]

you continue to speak in generic terms about specific events. which "people" are suffering? prove it's because of shareholders vs. you just taking the "big money = bad" approach and using soft terminology to define your hard beliefs.

you keep using these extreme situations and trying to pass them off as common occurrences. not *everything* should be addressed nor fixed and these generic "down with the rich" is bullshit to the core.

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

 

[pknopp]

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you continue to speak in generic terms about specific events. which "people" are suffering? prove it's because of shareholders vs. you just taking the "big money = bad" approach and using soft terminology to define your hard beliefs.

you keep using these extreme situations and trying to pass them off as common occurrences. not *everything* should be addressed nor fixed and these generic "down with the rich" is bullshit to the core.

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

For most people, taxes are not optional. Business and investment are. When you invest, you understand you can make some money, make a lot of money, and lose money too. Neither is guaranteed. If you don't want to take that risk, then you simply go to work every morning and hope to make enough to retire on.

Some people want more. Some people dream of working for themselves, retiring early, and yes, perhaps become very wealthy, but that takes risk. The larger the risk, the likely larger payout if you succeed.

Going to work is not a risk. Your job was created by others who took that risk so you could have that job. I took a risk by being invested in that market, and it's failing lately. Not a problem because I have faith in the system, and it will recover once again. I took a risk by land investment, and it's pretty stable right now. It doesn't mean it can't fail, but again, that's what investments are all about.

 

[iceberg]

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

Not everyone. I try to find common ground and compromises. Not build, the world to my views only.

 

[pknopp]

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

For most people, taxes are not optional. Business and investment are. When you invest, you understand you can make some money, make a lot of money, and lose money too. Neither is guaranteed. If you don't want to take that risk, then you simply go to work every morning and hope to make enough to retire on.

Some people want more. Some people dream of working for themselves, retiring early, and yes, perhaps become very wealthy, but that takes risk. The larger the risk, the likely larger payout if you succeed.

Going to work is not a risk. Your job was created by others who took that risk so you could have that job. I took a risk by being invested in that market, and it's failing lately. Not a problem because I have faith in the system, and it will recover once again. I took a risk by land investment, and it's pretty stable right now. It doesn't mean it can't fail, but again, that's what investments are all about.

We just had a coal miner that went to work the other day and was killed. Screw your "no risk".

Tell his family that. I imagine you'll find yourself picking your teeth off the ground.

 

[pknopp]

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

Not everyone. I try to find common ground and compromises. Not build, the world to my views only.

Compromises is an equitable system. What I am calling for.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well again... it's because there are economic consequences for guaranteeing a benefit.

And again: there are economic consequences for NOT offering this benefit

So yes, it's complicated. Gaetz managed to simplify it down to one little shameless lie. I hope a dog bites his balls. I can't stand that puke.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

For most people, taxes are not optional. Business and investment are. When you invest, you understand you can make some money, make a lot of money, and lose money too. Neither is guaranteed. If you don't want to take that risk, then you simply go to work every morning and hope to make enough to retire on.

Some people want more. Some people dream of working for themselves, retiring early, and yes, perhaps become very wealthy, but that takes risk. The larger the risk, the likely larger payout if you succeed.

Going to work is not a risk. Your job was created by others who took that risk so you could have that job. I took a risk by being invested in that market, and it's failing lately. Not a problem because I have faith in the system, and it will recover once again. I took a risk by land investment, and it's pretty stable right now. It doesn't mean it can't fail, but again, that's what investments are all about.

We just had a coal miner that went to work the other day and was killed. Screw your "no risk".

Tell his family that. I imagine you'll find yourself picking your teeth off the ground.

I meant financial risk. If I knew you couldn't follow along, I'd write it in crayon.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's not arrogance. He thinks that is best. It's called, "His opinion". What in the world...

 

[pknopp]

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

For most people, taxes are not optional. Business and investment are. When you invest, you understand you can make some money, make a lot of money, and lose money too. Neither is guaranteed. If you don't want to take that risk, then you simply go to work every morning and hope to make enough to retire on.

Some people want more. Some people dream of working for themselves, retiring early, and yes, perhaps become very wealthy, but that takes risk. The larger the risk, the likely larger payout if you succeed.

Going to work is not a risk. Your job was created by others who took that risk so you could have that job. I took a risk by being invested in that market, and it's failing lately. Not a problem because I have faith in the system, and it will recover once again. I took a risk by land investment, and it's pretty stable right now. It doesn't mean it can't fail, but again, that's what investments are all about.

We just had a coal miner that went to work the other day and was killed. Screw your "no risk".

Tell his family that. I imagine you'll find yourself picking your teeth off the ground.

I meant financial risk. If I knew you couldn't follow along, I'd write it in crayon.

You can't take what I said and then narrow it down to what you said. The coal miner should be looked after before the shareholders of Arch Coal.

 

[initforme]

So sick leave is a thing of the past? This is a huge massive leap backwards as a nation.

 

[Andylusion]

you continue to speak in generic terms about specific events. which "people" are suffering? prove it's because of shareholders vs. you just taking the "big money = bad" approach and using soft terminology to define your hard beliefs.

you keep using these extreme situations and trying to pass them off as common occurrences. not *everything* should be addressed nor fixed and these generic "down with the rich" is bullshit to the core.

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

You are speaking incoherently.

What do you mean the markets are 'stealing from them'? How does a stock, steal from you? As long as the company keeps paying dividends, then you are not losing anything.

Additionally, negative interest rates, just means you should be even more in favor of companies paying dividends to shareholders, and encouraging more people to invest in stocks.

Further:

Deposit Rates - CME Federal Credit Union
https://www.huntington.com/Personal/savings-cds-overview/certificates-of-deposit
Welcome to PNC – Interest Rates Center

So where is this negative interest rate that is stealing retirees money?

Well there isn't any. Now are interest rates incredibly low? Yes. But even if the Federal Fund's rate is negative, a bank would never have an actual negative interest rate.

That's a ridiculous concept. If the bank actually offered a negative interest rate, people would have a massive withdraw, and cause the bank to close.

Again most people are not saving for retirement in a common savings account anyway. At the most likely, they would be investing in a CD. And a CD is a contractual interest when you buy the CD. Meaning if you have a 10% CD a year ago, current interest rates, have zero effect on that CD. It will pay 10% until the CD matures. Then you can buy another CD if you wish, which could have a lower interest rate, but it's still positive.

 

[iceberg]

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

Not everyone. I try to find common ground and compromises. Not build, the world to my views only.

Compromises is an equitable system. What I am calling for.

by bitching people are not doing things YOUR way and shoving strawmen on me to argue against?

hardly.

 

[pknopp]

Look at what the markets did with oil awhile back. $150 a barrel. There was no justification for that. That hurt working people a lot.

You can argue it's one instance. The demand for lower and lower rates has hurt retired people who save for decades big time. The system should be balanced not weighed 98% for the markets.

Look at the complete over reaction right now. That's not good for anyone but a very few who can sit in an office with a computer taking advantage of the situation while others have to be out doing an actual job.

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

You are speaking incoherently.

What do you mean the markets are 'stealing from them'? How does a stock, steal from you? As long as the company keeps paying dividends, then you are not losing anything.

Additionally, negative interest rates, just means you should be even more in favor of companies paying dividends to shareholders, and encouraging more people to invest in stocks.

That's the whole point but you know that. I have no desire to chase your feigned ignorance.

 

[pknopp]

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

Not everyone. I try to find common ground and compromises. Not build, the world to my views only.

Compromises is an equitable system. What I am calling for.

by bitching people are not doing things YOUR way and shoving strawmen on me to argue against?

hardly.

If we were doing my thing the markets would collapse. I would make them live up to their "capitalistic standards" and if they did that they would collapse.

 

[Lakhota]

GOP LAWMAKER WHO VOTED AGAINST PAID SICK LEAVE IN FLORIDA TAKES PAID LEAVE FROM CONGRESS

Gaetz Voted Against Florida Paid Sick Leave. He’s Using It in Congress.

As the article notes, he isn't even sick but he is still going to take time off, all paid for by the taxpayers.

Gaetz is a childlike national embarrassment.

 

[Andylusion]

And? should people not try to continue as normal as possible? should those who can work during this problem NOT work just to make life "fair"?

again you go after the extreme and act as it should be treated the same. it shouldn't. that's why it's extreme.

What I noted is NOT the extreme. The rates have been crushing the retired who saved money to retire on for a long time now.

The markets are irrational and extreme but we allow them to lead the country.

There is nothing irrational or extreme. You not knowing the reasons behind price changes, does not mean there is no rational to it.

You being ignorant, does not mean everyone else must be irrational, since you don't know the reason for their actions.

As far as complaining that the retired who saved money, are being crushed.... I find your comment ironic, since you yourself are the one supporting crushing the retired.

Do you know where most 401Ks and IRAs, pension funds, and annuities, are all invested in? Stocks. Which you just complained that shareholders should make do with less....

So while you are sitting here complaining that retired people who saved are being crushed, you turn right around and advocate they make do with less.

It's all weighted to stocks. That should NOT be the case. It should be balanced. Now the markets are wanting to steal from them with negative rates. Look at what the markets are doing?

You can't blame people for wanting nothing to do with them.

It's funny how taxation is theft but negative rates won't be.

For most people, taxes are not optional. Business and investment are. When you invest, you understand you can make some money, make a lot of money, and lose money too. Neither is guaranteed. If you don't want to take that risk, then you simply go to work every morning and hope to make enough to retire on.

Some people want more. Some people dream of working for themselves, retiring early, and yes, perhaps become very wealthy, but that takes risk. The larger the risk, the likely larger payout if you succeed.

Going to work is not a risk. Your job was created by others who took that risk so you could have that job. I took a risk by being invested in that market, and it's failing lately. Not a problem because I have faith in the system, and it will recover once again. I took a risk by land investment, and it's pretty stable right now. It doesn't mean it can't fail, but again, that's what investments are all about.

We just had a coal miner that went to work the other day and was killed. Screw your "no risk".

Tell his family that. I imagine you'll find yourself picking your teeth off the ground.

We are talking about investments, and you went from investments, to work place accidents.

There is nothing comparable between them.

A coal miner is not taking his life savings, and investment $2 Million dollars of his earnings, and putting it into investing in a coal mine.

IF he did, he would get a return on his investment. Or risk losing his investment.

You can't just mindlessly swap out that context of risk, and then say you can die at a risky job, so it's the same thing. It's not the same thing, and quite frankly, this is a dumb argument, because coal mines are paid darn good money these days.

My last CEO, worked as an low-mid level engineer for 10 years. When the company owner decided to close the company, this mid-level engineer, went to the CEO and made an offer of $5 Million. He mortgaged his house, he mortgaged his parents home, cashed in his entire 401K, and then borrowed the rest, in order to buy the company.

If the company fails, he loses his home, his parents lose their home, he is out his entire life savings, and he'll owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in a loan.

That is the kind of financial risk that we are talking about. That is why the company owners make the big bucks. That is why shareholders get a cut of the company profits.

Because if they don't... that company simply would be closed right now. You think anyone is going to take that kind of risk, if they can't make a huge pay off? Of course not. No one would.

So there simply would be no company, no dozens of jobs created, no products produced, and you wouldn't have any low-wage workers to complain about them not getting as much as the CEO, because there would not be any low wage employees. They would all be unemployed today, instead of earning a wage.

But whether you agree with those facts of life or not, stop with this toddler level logic, swapping out financial risk with personal injury risk. They are not the same, and not interchangeable. Apples and oranges. Adults should be able to realize there is a difference in context.

 

[Andylusion]

should be is your preference. you just seem arrogant enough to think YOUR preference is what WE should be doing.

That's what everyone does. Get a mirror.

Not everyone. I try to find common ground and compromises. Not build, the world to my views only.

Compromises is an equitable system. What I am calling for.

by bitching people are not doing things YOUR way and shoving strawmen on me to argue against?

hardly.

If we were doing my thing the markets would collapse. I would make them live up to their "capitalistic standards" and if they did that they would collapse.

What are you smoking? How would you change anything, so that the markets would collapse by living up to capitalist standards? How?