Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

[Kondor3]

"...They should both be denounced - whether it's the Palestinians or the IDF. Instead of excusing it..."

We are in complete agreement on this.

The main concerns for many folk (myself included) are likely to be..

1. getting a good handle (counts, details) on the number of Human Shield incidents being alleged

2. discounting rocks thrown by Side B against Side A, when Side B engages in even more of it, by several orders of magnitude

3. ensuring that censure is applied to both sides, in proportion to their culpability or the number of people that they jeapordize

When we have credible data on actual Human Shield incidents by the IDF (not mixing them in with Informant Use incidents)...

And when we have separated Rock-Shields from Bullet-Shields (injury-baiting versus death-baiting, a matter of the degree of seriousness) then I believe it will be safe to throw rocks at the IDF for any incidents that survive that vetting process.

Hell, I'll stand alongside you and JOIN-IN on the rock throwing against the IDF, under circumstances where they're using Human Shields (women, children and teens, especially) to ward-off Bullets.

None of this is 'defending' the IDF in such a context.

None of this is even attempting to muddy the waters or to delay the process.

This is simply trying to filter-out the pro-Palestinian Bull$hit and other biases (from the Palestinians, and Palestinian-sympathetic NGO's) before examining what's left, after a more objective screening is undertaken.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Hamas does not use civilians as human shields. As addressed in the You Tube video over 300 human rights groups written reports about Cast Lead have found no evidence Hamas used children as human shields. But Israel did.

Hamas DOES use human shields, that is pretty well documented. If you are launching rockets out of schools that is most certainly using human shields.

No, they do not. Not documented, Amnesty found no evidence it happened In ttheir investigstion of Cast Lead. I renounce Zionist Hasbara.

 

[toastman]

Hamas does not use civilians as human shields. As addressed in the You Tube video over 300 human rights groups written reports about Cast Lead have found no evidence Hamas used children as human shields. But Israel did.

Hamas DOES use human shields, that is pretty well documented. If you are launching rockets out of schools that is most certainly using human shields.

No, they do not. Not documented, Amnesty found no evidence it happened In ttheir investigstion of Cast Lead. I renounce Zionist Hasbara.

Firing from civlian areas IS using human shields. Stop lying, you're not fooling anyone.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Definition of human shieldsThe prohibition of using human shields in the Geneva Conventions, Additional Protocol I and the Statute of the International Criminal Court are couched in terms of using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations.[18]* Most examples given in military manuals, or which have been the object of condemnations, have been cases where persons were actually taken to military objectives in order to shield those objectives from attacks. The military manuals of New Zealand and the United Kingdom give as examples the placing of persons in or next to ammunition trains.[19]* There were many condemnations of the threat by Iraq to round up and place prisoners of war and civilians in strategic sites and around military defence points.[20]* Other condemnations on the basis of this prohibition related to rounding up civilians and putting them in front of military units in the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia and Liberia.[21]*In the Review of the Indictments in the*Karadžić and Mladić case, the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia qualified physically securing or otherwise holding peacekeeping forces against their will at potential NATO air targets, including ammunition bunkers, a radar site and a communications centre, as using “human shields”.[22]*It can be concluded that the use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons*hors de combat*with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives. Customary IHL - Rule 97. Human Shields

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"Amnesty found that Israeli air strikes targeted civilians; dropped white phosphorus bombs, an incendiary, imprecise weapon that creates smoke walls to facilitate troop movements, but that also cascades over large areas and sears into human flesh through muscle, causing atrocious injuries and death; and used Palestinian civilians as human shields.Israeli forces," Amnesty's report found, "repeatedly took over Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they used the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position – effectively using the families, both adults and children, as “human shields” and putting them at risk. While soldiers wore protective body armour and helmets and shielded themselves behind sandbags as they fired from the houses, the Palestinian inhabitants of the houses had no such protection."Israel denied the claims of targeting civilians or using them as human shields. But today in Israel, the group called*Breaking the Silence, an organization that collects testimonies and oral histories by Israeli soldiers of the Israeli occupation of the West bank and the Gaza Strip, released*54 testimonies*by some 26 Israeli soldiers who participated in the Gaza war ("Operation cast Lead," in Israeli military parlance), including confirmation of the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields." Israel's Human Shields in Gaza: Palestinian "Johnnies"

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Amnesty accuses Israel of using human shields in GazaBy Leigh Baldwin (AFP) –*Jul 1, 2009**JERUSALEM (AFP) — Amnesty International on Thursday accused Israeli forces of war crimes, saying they used children as human shields and conducted wanton attacks on civilians during their offensive in the Gaza Strip.The London-based human rights group also accused Hamas of war crimes, but said it found no evidence that the Islamist rulers of Gaza used civilians as human shields during the 22-day offensive Israel launched on December 28. AFP: Amnesty accuses Israel of using human shields in Gaza

 

[Kondor3]

"...It can be concluded that the use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons*hors de combat*with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives..."

Indeed.

And the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, hiding rocket-launchers and other military assets within their own civilian population, meet this definition precisely...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgrZxcYg7M]Palestinian Terrorist Groups Launch Rockets At Israel From Populated Areas - YouTube[/ame]

Good catch...

Cowards, hiding behind their womens' skirts...

So when do we begin prosecuting Hamas and Hezbollah leadership for such war-crimes, under the auspices of the ICC?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

22 November 2010] – One day after an Israeli military court imposed a suspended sentence on two Givati Brigade soldiers for using a nine-year-old boy as a human shield in Gaza, DCI-Palestine has just obtained an affidavit from a 13-year-old boy who reports being used as a human shield on 19 August 2010. This brings to three, the number of human shield cases documented by DCI-Palestine in 2010.The practice of using human shields involves forcing civilians to directly assist in military operations or using them to shield an area or troops from attack. Both of these circumstances expose civilians to physical, and sometimes, mortal danger. Civilians are usually threatened and/or physically coerced into performing these tasks, most of the time at gunpoint. The practice is illegal under both international and Israeli domestic law.In the latest case documented by DCI-Palestine, a 13-year-old boy from a village near Nablus, in the occupied West Bank, was beaten and then forced at gunpoint to search and open doors in a house where the army suspected a wanted person might be hiding –*Nazzal A. – Voices From The Occupation.Since April 2004, DCI-Palestine has documented 16 cases involving Palestinian children being used as human shields by the Israeli army. Fifteen of the 16 cases, occurred after the Israeli High Court of Justice ruled the practice to be illegal in October 2005, suggesting that the army is not effectively implementing the Court's decision, or simply disregarding the Court’s order altogether. DCI/PS - Israeli army still using children as human shields in 2010

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"...It can be concluded that the use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons*hors de combat*with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives..."

Indeed.

And the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, hiding rocket-launchers and other military assets within their own civilian population, meet this definition precisely...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgrZxcYg7M]Palestinian Terrorist Groups Launch Rockets At Israel From Populated Areas - YouTube[/ame]

Good catch...

Cowards, hiding behind their womens' skirts...

So when do we begin prosecuting Hamas and Hezbollah leadership for such war-crimes, under the auspices of the ICC?

No, that is not using civilians as human shields.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Palestinian teen describes being used as a human shield by Israeli forces in Abu Dis

Yanking him by the collar and shoving him in the neck, the armed Israeli soldiers proudly paraded the handcuffed teen up and down the street, making a public spectacle of him in the occupied West Bank town of Abu Dis.Armed with live ammunition, steal-coated rubber bullets and tear gas, on Friday, April 19, at least 10 Israeli soldiers confronted the crowd of protesters using 17-year-old Muhammad Rabea as a human shield. They forced him to walk at gunpoint with his hands raised in the air as they approached the protesters.Muhammad told Defense for Children International Palestine (DCI-Palestine) that he recalls inhaling the caustic smell of the tear gas, hearing the piercing sound of gunfire, and feeling the heat of the shell casings brush past his stomach as the soldier to his left opened fire at the crowd with live ammunition. Palestinian teen describes being used as a human shield by Israeli forces in Abu Dis | Mondoweiss

 

[Kondor3]

"...It can be concluded that the use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons*hors de combat*with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives..."

Indeed.

And the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, hiding rocket-launchers and other military assets within their own civilian population, meet this definition precisely...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgrZxcYg7M]Palestinian Terrorist Groups Launch Rockets At Israel From Populated Areas - YouTube[/ame]

Good catch...

Cowards, hiding behind their womens' skirts...

So when do we begin prosecuting Hamas and Hezbollah leadership for such war-crimes, under the auspices of the ICC?

No, that is not using civilians as human shields.

Wrong again.

Spectacularly wrong.

But that doesn't seem to stop you.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Since April 2004, DCI-Palestine has documented 20 cases involving Palestinian children being used as human shields by Israel. 1. M.B.15 Apr 0413Tied to the bonnet of a military jeep for four hours during clashes.2S.T.2 May 0616Forced to walk in front of soldiers and enter a house in search of combatants.3A.E26 Feb 0715Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers during clashes.4J.D.28 Feb 0711Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers and enter an abandoned house in search of combatants.5I.M.11 Apr 0714Forced to sit for 15 minutes on the bonnet of a jeep during clashes.6O.G.11 Apr 0715Forced to sit for 10 minutes on the bonnet of a jeep during clashes.7R.N.11 Jul 0714Wounded whilst being forced to evacuate a house.8A.S.4 Jan 0914Detained for 10 days and forced to search houses during war in Gaza.9A.A.5 Jan 0915Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza.10A.A.5 Jan 0916Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza.11N.A.5 Jan 0917Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza.12K.A.5 Jan 0915Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza.13H.A.5 Jan 0912Detained close to military operations for four days during war in Gaza.14M.R.15 Jan 099Forced at gunpoint to search bags thought to contain explosives during war in Gaza.15D.A.18 Feb 1016Forced at gunpoint to search for a weapon.16S.A.16 Apr 1014Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers during clashes.17N.A.19 Aug 1013Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers and enter a house in search of combatants.18M.H.21 Feb 1215Forced to shield soldiers from stone-throwing.19M.M.21 Feb 1216Forced to shield soldiers from stone-throwing.20M.W.17 Feb 139Forced at gunpoint to walk in front of soldiers during clashes. Human Shields | Defence for Children International Palestine

 

[MHunterB]

Sherri, don't you understand that no matter what Israeli troops may do, there is no excuse for HAMAS firing rockets *indiscriminately* into Israel? And no excuse for firing those rockets from on top of broadcast buildings, or schools, or mosques, etc.?

The last time I checked, no sane person had ever accused 'AI' or 'HRW of disseminating 'Zionist hasbara' in their reports.

When a person makes the ridiculous and blatantly false statements which you have. the announce that their opinions are not based on reality.

I cannot imagine what could impel anyone to lie to defend HAMAS' war crimes and crimes against humanity the way that sherri just has.

 

[MHunterB]

"Definition of human shieldsThe prohibition of using human shields in the Geneva Conventions, Additional Protocol I and the Statute of the International Criminal Court are couched in terms of using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations."

This is from the post by sherri earlier and supports what I posted, that HAMAS has indeed used human shields, according to the GC definition - by launching rockets into Israel from schoolyard, the roof of a broadcast office building, apartment blocks, etc, etc.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Both Israel and Hamas have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Both sides must face justice for their crimes.

 

[MHunterB]

Both Israel and Hamas have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Both sides must face justice for their crimes.

On that I will agree with you. Some posters here, however, seem to imagine that *only* Israel has ever been guilty of wrong-doing.

 

[Coyote]

Hamas does not use civilians as human shields. As addressed in the You Tube video over 300 human rights groups written reports about Cast Lead have found no evidence Hamas used children as human shields. But Israel did.

Hamas DOES use human shields, that is pretty well documented. If you are launching rockets out of schools that is most certainly using human shields.

No, they do not. Not documented, Amnesty found no evidence it happened In ttheir investigstion of Cast Lead. I renounce Zionist Hasbara.

Cast Lead is not the only conflict.

Aside from that - Hamas has launched rockets from school buildings. Is that not using human shields?

I agree, it's not as direct as making a child examine bags for possible IED's but it is essentially the same thing - using a school because opponents are less likely to fire back on a school full of children.

 

[Coyote]

Hamas DOES use human shields, that is pretty well documented. If you are launching rockets out of schools that is most certainly using human shields.

No, they do not. Not documented, Amnesty found no evidence it happened In ttheir investigstion of Cast Lead. I renounce Zionist Hasbara.

Firing from civlian areas IS using human shields. Stop lying, you're not fooling anyone.

What if they are in an area where it's all civilian areas? Gaza is densly populated.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Who are any of you to judge Israel?

When any of you live in a place where your neighbors openly call for your destruction, send terrorists to your country, and fire rockets at you, then you can talk.

Until then, you can all take your internet "research" and your condemnations and stick them where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Coyote]

Who are any of you to judge Israel?

When any of you live in a place where your neighbors openly call for your destruction, send terrorists to your country, and fire rockets at you, then you can talk.

Until then, you can all take your internet "research" and your condemnations and stick them where the sun doesn't shine.

This is an internet discussion board.

If you don't want to discuss issues related to IP, fine but please allow the rest of us to.