Passion of the Christ: Most Beautiful Love Story of all time

[eagleseven]

Or, a lot more simple explanation: It was written about the fulfillment of prophesy, and it fulfills prophesy because it was that fulfillment. No conspiracies.

Conspiracies aren't that successful, nor do they last so long.

It's not a conspiracy.

I have no doubts that the author of Matthew sincerely believed in Jesus Christ. He believed in Jesus Christ so much, that he felt embellishing Jesus's story, in order to win more converts, was justified. The authors of Gospels were human, after all.

Read the "historical" account of the 14th Dalai Llama. Even though the story is only 60 years old, millions believe that the young Dalai Llama was performing miracles in the late 1940s, before China invaded.

Fact of the matter is, no dissenters came forward. People who were alive during the life of Christ, who were not converts. They saw the miracles, and did not contest the gospels when they first started circulating.

Likewise, nobody contested that Jesus performed miracles, and nobody claimed what the disciples preached was untrue. Doesn't that strike you as odd, if as you say it was all a conspiracy?

And then there's the little fact that the disciples sans one died horrible deaths. Few people who are perpetuating lies are willing to go to that extreme. The current Dahli Lama was perfectly happy to leave his country when things got hot. In another 60 years, nobody will remember the miracle thing.

As I stated above, it is not a conspiracy. And the Gospels were contested, heavily, This is why we only have 4 Gospels, while dozens were written.


And how do you explain Islam? Is it one large Conspiracy? Or was Mohammed sent here by God to correct the errors of Christianity?

If you claim all of Islam is a conspiracy, then all of Christianity can just as easily be a conspiracy.

 

[AllieBaba]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

 

[AllieBaba]

And incorporates biblical lore in its teachings.

 

[eagleseven]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

 

[Anguille]

The god of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is often described as a jealous god.

Being a control freak has never seemed to me a particularity desirable quality in a god. In my book, that would disqualify a wannabe god from being a god.

 

[AllieBaba]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

The Crusades weren't forced conversion. It was an attempt to battle back the Muslims, who were sacking Christian strongholds and slaughtering along the way.

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

Islam forces conversion. Period, and rather than compete with Jesus, acknowledges him as a prophet. Mohommed was no idiot.

 

[Agnapostate]

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

The Catholic Church was the *only* major form of Christianity existent for centuries before the Protestant schism.

 

[eagleseven]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

The Crusades weren't forced conversion. It was an attempt to battle back the Muslims, who were sacking Christian strongholds and slaughtering along the way.

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

Islam forces conversion. Period, and rather than compete with Jesus, acknowledges him as a prophet. Mohommed was no idiot.

I started another thread to discuss this issue. I think we should let this thread return to the topic of Mel Gibson's movie.


And in 1400, the Catholic Church was Christianity....or more approrpiately, all of Christiandom.

 

[AllieBaba]

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

The Crusades weren't forced conversion. It was an attempt to battle back the Muslims, who were sacking Christian strongholds and slaughtering along the way.

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

Islam forces conversion. Period, and rather than compete with Jesus, acknowledges him as a prophet. Mohommed was no idiot.

I started another thread to discuss this issue. I think we should let this thread return to the topic of Mel Gibson's movie.


And in 1400, the Catholic Church was Christianity....or more approrpiately, all of Christiandom.

No, it wasn't.

 

[eagleseven]

The Crusades weren't forced conversion. It was an attempt to battle back the Muslims, who were sacking Christian strongholds and slaughtering along the way.

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

Islam forces conversion. Period, and rather than compete with Jesus, acknowledges him as a prophet. Mohommed was no idiot.

I started another thread to discuss this issue. I think we should let this thread return to the topic of Mel Gibson's movie.


And in 1400, the Catholic Church was Christianity....or more approrpiately, all of Christiandom.

No, it wasn't.

Yes it was.

Christianity in 1400AD
There was the Roman Catholic Church burning Jews at the stake in Spain in the West, and the Byzantine Catholic Church continually fighting the Muslims in the East.

 

[JenT]

It's not a conspiracy.

I have no doubts that the author of Matthew sincerely believed in Jesus Christ. He believed in Jesus Christ so much, that he felt embellishing Jesus's story, in order to win more converts, was justified. The authors of Gospels were human, after all.

Read the "historical" account of the 14th Dalai Llama. Even though the story is only 60 years old, millions believe that the young Dalai Llama was performing miracles in the late 1940s, before China invaded.

Fact of the matter is, no dissenters came forward. People who were alive during the life of Christ, who were not converts. They saw the miracles, and did not contest the gospels when they first started circulating.

Likewise, nobody contested that Jesus performed miracles, and nobody claimed what the disciples preached was untrue. Doesn't that strike you as odd, if as you say it was all a conspiracy?

And then there's the little fact that the disciples sans one died horrible deaths. Few people who are perpetuating lies are willing to go to that extreme. The current Dahli Lama was perfectly happy to leave his country when things got hot. In another 60 years, nobody will remember the miracle thing.

As I stated above, it is not a conspiracy. And the Gospels were contested, heavily, This is why we only have 4 Gospels, while dozens were written.


And how do you explain Islam? Is it one large Conspiracy? Or was Mohammed sent here by God to correct the errors of Christianity?

If you claim all of Islam is a conspiracy, then all of Christianity can just as easily be a conspiracy.

Christ said there would be many false Christs and there were, no surprise. And there were hundreds of claims of being Christ but they didn't hold up. The reason the have the Gospels that we have is because the majority, the FLOOD of manuscripts and claims to fame were thrown out are various but most were unsupported.

That's why it rocks that the Christian Jews were forced out of their comfort zone, it caused them to flee to neighboring countries and they had to go underground. When it was safe to rejoin and compare, only the manuscripts that held up to scrutiny and were supported by finding exact copies elsewhere made the cut.

 

[JenT]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

LOL the Koran is not God's rebuttal of Christianity, but Allahs, HUGE difference.

Where are the prophesies in the Koran, seven? Christ fulfilled many, Mohammed...not so much.

 

[AllieBaba]

Actually, Mohommed. Who was lowly and reviled by his own people, until he came up with an idea that would make him the greatest tribal despot ever.

And he did it. Subsequently, all the "feel good" passages of the Koran were declared exempt, and bloodier ones incpororated in their place.

 

[JenT]

The Spanish Inquisition was the Catholic Church and the political forces of the day. Not "Christianity".

The Catholic Church was the *only* major form of Christianity existent for centuries before the Protestant schism.

It is interesting.

The Jews added so many oral laws to what God gave, and Christ rebuked them.

The Catholic Church has added so much as well, and the body of Christ, well, I believe there are born again Christians in the Catholic Church and in Christian Churches that adhere to the foundation of Christ.

But the temptation of man to add his own mark to what God said goes all the way back to Eve, who added "or even touch it", unless God said it and it wasn't deemed important enough to record it, which I doubt.

 

[eagleseven]

HA! You're not working!

Islam forces conversion.

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

LOL the Koran is not God's rebuttal of Christianity, but Allahs, HUGE difference.

Where are the prophesies in the Koran, seven? Christ fulfilled many, Mohammed...not so much.

No, it's just the language. Allah is Arabic for "God." It is a common mistake.

God (English) = Got (German) = Dios (Spanish) = Deu (French) = Deus (Latin) = Elah (Aramaic) = Allah (Arabic)

It's all the same word.

Mohammed is explicit, Allah is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Ishamael, the God of the Moses, the God of Jesus.

You want Islamic prophesy? Have at it! And some more. A little bit extra.

 

[eagleseven]

Christ said there would be many false Christs and there were, no surprise. And there were hundreds of claims of being Christ but they didn't hold up. The reason the have the Gospels that we have is because the majority, the FLOOD of manuscripts and claims to fame were thrown out are various but most were unsupported.

That's why it rocks that the Christian Jews were forced out of their comfort zone, it caused them to flee to neighboring countries and they had to go underground. When it was safe to rejoin and compare, only the manuscripts that held up to scrutiny and were supported by finding exact copies elsewhere made the cut.

Uh, Mohammed isn't claiming to be the Christ...only a prophet, akin to Isaiah.

 

[JBeukema]

humans are imperfect beings.

By what standard of measure? Demonstrate perfection and how Mankind might be measured against it.

This is such a huge question. The standard is not ours, it is God's

demonstrate the standard. first, you must still demonstrate that your god exists

. And none of us can achieve the standard of God because of the fall.

demonstrate

Greed, lust, lying...we consider ourselves "good" compared to the local ax murderer, but compared to God we all fall way short. Has any one of us never lied? never lusted?

I never ordered genocide

I never committed genocide

i never slaughtered countless children

therefore, I am more moral than your god

 

[JenT]

Christ said there would be many false Christs and there were, no surprise. And there were hundreds of claims of being Christ but they didn't hold up. The reason the have the Gospels that we have is because the majority, the FLOOD of manuscripts and claims to fame were thrown out are various but most were unsupported.

That's why it rocks that the Christian Jews were forced out of their comfort zone, it caused them to flee to neighboring countries and they had to go underground. When it was safe to rejoin and compare, only the manuscripts that held up to scrutiny and were supported by finding exact copies elsewhere made the cut.

Uh, Mohammed isn't claiming to be the Christ...only a prophet, akin to Isaiah.

Where is it written akin to Isaiah? Would honestly like to see that. Because everything I've read holds Mohammed up fairly high

 

[JBeukema]

If the arguments you posit are to b valid, then the deity must be demonstrated

Why? If you are talking about God, He just IS.[/qupte]



Demonstrate that it exists

for what purpose? Every argument you put forth has been refuted and revealed as fallacious and dishonest in their nature

That's your opinion

It's not opinion, it's a fact; your opinion means nothing and all you have is ignorance

....but I've already been down that road dabbling in witchcraft, Tarot cards, astrology,

No big surprise.

Jesus has been proven to bv a false prophet. The writings of the prophets stand against him, for hie is a false prophet allowed to test mankind. A

 

[JenT]

And? Among other things, Christians had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Spanish Missions, and plenty other "forced conversions." So does Islam. Big whup.

Have you read the Koran? How do you explain it? The Koran is God's rebuttal of Christianity.

Mohammed teaches that God is jealous, and he is VERY angry that Christians worship Jesus as a god. In Islam, Christians worshiping Jesus are compared to the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. God turns his back for just 400 years and BAM, humans have gone and perverted Jesus's teaching beyond recognition yet again...

Do you have an answer for Islam?

LOL the Koran is not God's rebuttal of Christianity, but Allahs, HUGE difference.

Where are the prophesies in the Koran, seven? Christ fulfilled many, Mohammed...not so much.

No, it's just the language. Allah is Arabic for "God." It is a common mistake.

God (English) = Got (German) = Dios (Spanish) = Deu (French) = Deus (Latin) = Elah (Aramaic) = Allah (Arabic)

It's all the same word.

Mohammed is explicit, Allah is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Ishamael, the God of the Moses, the God of Jesus.

You want Islamic prophesy? Have at it! And some more. A little bit extra.

Allah does mean god, but "God" in the west is indicative of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they are not the same god.

I have been looking and I have never been able to find where it says Allah loves his people. All "love" is the love that Muslims are to have for him, and the only guarantee they have to get into heaven is to die for Allah.

In Christianity, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe would have everlasting life...and God died for His own.

Fairly opposite. And apparently Islamic leaders know it because it means death to become a Christian.