People Surrounded by Armed Troops with Select Fire Weapons....

[Utilitarian]

I already mentioned 2 cities where guns were effectively banned in most situations - DC and Chicago. Thankfully, the Supreme Court intervened.

The way I understand it, still very difficult to get a permit in those places and other, where it should be a right for citizens with a clean background to get a permit with training, yet other states have constitutional carry of anything including ARs to walk the streets no questions asked. It's crazy going both direction.

I don't see what the problem with constitutional carry is. Most people who carry don't get in shootings.

And frankly, plenty of shootings have been stopped by others with guns.

I taught this crap for a lot of years. Without decent training you are a danger to yourself and everybody around you. Some people with repeated training are almost as bad. Just look at YouTube. Talk to military that have seen trained dumb asses accidentally fire their weapon into a sand barrel twice, just clearing it to got to chow, or the guys who after leaving the range, have ejected a live round at the cleaning table without a magazine even in the weapon, and this is people supposedly trained. Many have no respect for their weapons or presence of mind, and are dangerous, even on a range. No problem with even those folks having whatever weapons they want for home defense. There is a lot of stuff you can do in your home and it is your business that normal people would never do or would never be permitted to do out in public. This ain't 1790 and instead of 3 million citizen on the continent, we got over 300,000,000, much of it in overcrowded cities. 1790 rules don't cut it.

How could 1790 rules not still cut it?
The number irresponsible people, accidents, and deaths will increase, the % stays the same.
It is not like it is so crowded not that one accidental shot will hit 2 people or something like that?
In fact, the need for arms by everyone is much greater now than in 1790 because there is less room for hunting, cottage industries, etc., so crime and corruption are much higher than they ever have been.
Back then our government was not so corrupt that it lied about Iraqi WMD in order to start a distant war of aggression over oil.
To me we seem more on the verge of needing another rebellion more than ever.
Back in 1790 they would never have even considered something so corrupt and insane as a "War on Drugs".

We have 100 times the population now. Sorry, but the more crowded the environment and faster it moves, the more important proper regulation becomes, just like when a small woodworking shop moves to automated high-speed production of a modern manufacturing plant.
Our government is no more corrupt now, than then, in my opinion. As for the War on Drugs, creating the same type of lucrative criminal enterprises and competition as prohibition on alcohol did, you are right. It was officially lost when lost when the war was declared like other "war on" social programs to deal with problems.
Forget your rebellion. You had your chance at the Capital, as foolish and UN-American as it was, you gave away your plan and came out into the sunshine. We're watching you now.

How does a population increase make it any better to give corrupt politicians more control over a band of paid mercenaries like police?
Increased population makes police worse, not better.
Police made more sense around 1800 when streets were deserted at night and you needed a night watch.

It is easy to prove government is much more corrupt now.
First of all, it more centralized, so then more impersonal.
Government is now using fines, fees, bail, asset forfeiture, etc. as a revenue source.
Government now controls the media, so then the wealthy can easily manipulate the public with lies.
For example, about Iraqi WMD.

And you have rebellion backwards.
The Trump supporters occupying congress were not at all rebellious.
Nor do I have anything remotely to do with them.
I am extremely left wing, not a Trump supporter.

Glad you are not trumpian, but the opposite extreme is no better.
The foolish trumpian attack on congress to overthrow the free election was definitely rebellious. It failed.
I still support the police. You want vigilantism instead, good luck voting it in locally. It will go over about like your de fund and dissolve option. Get real.

The Capitol protest was a psyop. It used gullible people to cause a relatively minor disturbance while tricking a gullible public into supporting the government establishment.

It's very much like how 9/11 was handled. But people are stupid and fall for this idiocy time and time again.

 

[Utilitarian]

There is no choice.
Governments always become more corrupt over time, and revolution is always inevitable.
Look at how much more corrupt government is already.
In 1800 there were no federal weapons laws, no federal health laws, no federal drug laws, etc.
There is no legal basis for any federal weapons, health, or drug laws.
They almost tried to make 55 mph a federal speed limit.
Eventually they will try to make everything federal law.
Imagine how corrupt federal parking tickets would be?
And it is way beyond where we should already have rebelled.
We should not have killed 3 million Vietnamese, killed half a million Iraqi, incarcerated millions on drug charges, etc.
Things already are way beyond what is legal or sensible.

You cannot go back to the 1800s. Heck, the republicans cannot even go back the 1950s.
This experiment in representative republic democracy is ongoing and will continue to be ongoing, as the design was and is sound. The forces of your extreme left and the equally deluded extreme right will continue to loudly cancel each other out. the centrist point of view point forward, with only the minor pendulum swings tolerated for long.

Except for the fact that the Overton Window has shifted hard left on social issues for a while now, largely because of social media. It works to the advantage of woke corporations that want to keep the working class divided.

What we have is a plutocracy, with Brazil and South Africa as our likely futures in economics and social climate (respectively).

 

[White 6]

There is no choice.
Governments always become more corrupt over time, and revolution is always inevitable.
Look at how much more corrupt government is already.
In 1800 there were no federal weapons laws, no federal health laws, no federal drug laws, etc.
There is no legal basis for any federal weapons, health, or drug laws.
They almost tried to make 55 mph a federal speed limit.
Eventually they will try to make everything federal law.
Imagine how corrupt federal parking tickets would be?
And it is way beyond where we should already have rebelled.
We should not have killed 3 million Vietnamese, killed half a million Iraqi, incarcerated millions on drug charges, etc.
Things already are way beyond what is legal or sensible.

You cannot go back to the 1800s. Heck, the republicans cannot even go back the 1950s.
This experiment in representative republic democracy is ongoing and will continue to be ongoing, as the design was and is sound. The forces of your extreme left and the equally deluded extreme right will continue to loudly cancel each other out. the centrist point of view point forward, with only the minor pendulum swings tolerated for long.

Except for the fact that the Overton Window has shifted hard left on social issues for a while now, largely because of social media. It works to the advantage of woke corporations that want to keep the working class divided.

What we have is a plutocracy, with Brazil and South Africa as our likely futures in economics and social climate (respectively).

Interesting theory.