People Who Don't Vote Are The Problem

[kaz]

By voting you endorse the system by which Obama came to power, and thus legitimized his governing over you. That's why you have no right to complain. I, however, who did not vote, have every right to complain about how the government you voters created affects me and others because I do not endorse the system in the first place, and never consented to be aggressed against.

You know the judicial branch is apart of this government that was designed to uphold the constitution which protects your freedoms and rights but has been ignored by the other branches and even though you are obviously in favor of peoples rights you sit back and bitch about your rights being taken away and the judicial branch being corrupted and yet you dont vote? Very hypocritical.

First of all, I disagree with Kevin that voting means you consent to be robbed. Kevin's argument is like saying if you try to run from or fight back to a mugger you consented to be robbed. By not fighting back, only he can criticize the people who robbed him. It's a stupid argument. However, your response was ridiculous. Government protects us from government? What a ridiculous argument. And obviously they don't.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Commerce clause legitimizes all government control over the economy not just trade between the States, that government can confiscate land for it's own benefit not just government's, that government can restrict our right to defend ourselves, that government can disregard our Constitutional rights in collecting taxes and in pursuing drugs and drug money, that government can require us to enter into a private contract with a health insurance company, that government can freely confiscate money from one citizen and give it to another, that government can regulate political speech going into elections, that people are property (Dred Scott), that there are no limits on Federal power (FDR), that government can engage in non-defensive wars, that government can discriminate against white people and men, none of which are in the Constitution. Then they made up that people have a right to an abortion and gays have a right to marriage. Whatever you think about those,they are not in the Constitution.

But it all comes back to the absurdity that you believe the Federal government will protect us from the Federal government. And obviously as I showed, they don't.

I never said that. I said the peoples right to vote protects us from government. It allows our government the ability to reset and the checks and balances prevent our government from going to far. Thats what makes our system of government unique. Everything obama has done can be reversed nd its looking pretty good that it will thanks to those citizens that voted.

You did say that. You said the supreme court protects our rights.. The Supreme Court is part of the Federal government. That is saying the Federal government is designed to protect our rights from the Federal government. Which is absurd. They do not and never have consistently done that. BTW, the Constitution didn't give judicial review to the Supreme Court. They gave it to themselves.

You're also wrong that voting is what protects our rights. Sure it's part of the equation, but it's actually the States that were designed to check the Federal governmen You may want to Google the actual meaning of the term "Federal."

 

[kaz]

Here is why it is hard to argue with a Libertarian. Because there is a lot we agree on. Randi Rhodes and Thom Hartman have had Libertarians on their shows and it is crazy how much we agree on. But not enough for me to EVER support you. And that is why you are even less popular than the Tea Party. You have captured the young right wing white voters is all.

So again that raises the question why you debate W when you get a libertarian post.

BTW, there is one fundamental difference when libertarians "agree" with liberals. Libertarians mean it...

 

[kaz]

ranking is as clueless as you are. How are we not worse than Tea Partiers? They only want to limit government growth and taxes, we want to obliterate them. We are way, way worse to government whores like you than they are. They are barely more fiscally conservative than Republicans are. They would only cut your afternoon tea from your government dependency check, we would take the check.

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

 

[sealybobo]

ranking is as clueless as you are. How are we not worse than Tea Partiers? They only want to limit government growth and taxes, we want to obliterate them. We are way, way worse to government whores like you than they are. They are barely more fiscally conservative than Republicans are. They would only cut your afternoon tea from your government dependency check, we would take the check.

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

I'm not going to disagree when you say "libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy"

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?

 

[sealybobo]

Do you think 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy is a good thing? And do you think you a middle class American worker is going to benefit from it? They went international on you because you American workers use to be the highest paid workers in the world.

Thank a liberal.

 

[asterism]

I think people who don't vote view issues as "problems". Problems that, to them, are a very complex puzzle that they hope will solve itself. They imagine themselves as nothing but one of tens of millions of tiny pieces to that puzzle. These non-voters will eventually be fitted by someone else into that puzzle that has no possible solution. It's the easiest path to no end in sight.

I also think that people who DO vote view issues as challenges. And challenges are full of opportunity. Opportunity to make change and to make a difference. They become part of a platform and that platform becomes a springboard. It could lead to results, or it could also lead to nowhere.

But at least they stepped up to the challenge.

When they Greeks invented Democracy it wasn't just for the richest and smartest citizens. That had already been done before. It was for everyone. And so fast forward to today where the sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up.

See here why Australia has it right.

BBC News - Australia election Why is voting compulsory

com·pul·so·ry
required by law or a rule; obligatory.
"compulsory military service"

synonyms:

obligatory, mandatory, required, requisite, necessary, essential;

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So Democrats lose when "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up." But when these same "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans" do vote, Democrats win.

I think you're close to having an epiphany.

 

[sealybobo]

I think people who don't vote view issues as "problems". Problems that, to them, are a very complex puzzle that they hope will solve itself. They imagine themselves as nothing but one of tens of millions of tiny pieces to that puzzle. These non-voters will eventually be fitted by someone else into that puzzle that has no possible solution. It's the easiest path to no end in sight.

I also think that people who DO vote view issues as challenges. And challenges are full of opportunity. Opportunity to make change and to make a difference. They become part of a platform and that platform becomes a springboard. It could lead to results, or it could also lead to nowhere.

But at least they stepped up to the challenge.

When they Greeks invented Democracy it wasn't just for the richest and smartest citizens. That had already been done before. It was for everyone. And so fast forward to today where the sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up.

See here why Australia has it right.

BBC News - Australia election Why is voting compulsory

com·pul·so·ry
required by law or a rule; obligatory.
"compulsory military service"

synonyms:

obligatory, mandatory, required, requisite, necessary, essential;

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So Democrats lose when "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up." But when these same "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans" do vote, Democrats win.

I think you're close to having an epiphany.

Them not showing up is what makes them what they are, dummy.

 

[sealybobo]

I think people who don't vote view issues as "problems". Problems that, to them, are a very complex puzzle that they hope will solve itself. They imagine themselves as nothing but one of tens of millions of tiny pieces to that puzzle. These non-voters will eventually be fitted by someone else into that puzzle that has no possible solution. It's the easiest path to no end in sight.

I also think that people who DO vote view issues as challenges. And challenges are full of opportunity. Opportunity to make change and to make a difference. They become part of a platform and that platform becomes a springboard. It could lead to results, or it could also lead to nowhere.

But at least they stepped up to the challenge.

When they Greeks invented Democracy it wasn't just for the richest and smartest citizens. That had already been done before. It was for everyone. And so fast forward to today where the sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up.

See here why Australia has it right.

BBC News - Australia election Why is voting compulsory

com·pul·so·ry
required by law or a rule; obligatory.
"compulsory military service"

synonyms:

obligatory, mandatory, required, requisite, necessary, essential;

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So Democrats lose when "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans don't even bother to show up." But when these same "sad pathetic lazy ignorant Americans" do vote, Democrats win.

I think you're close to having an epiphany.

And yes. Democrats represent the poor. Instead of what I called them, you and Romney call them "takers".

Clearly the GOP doesn't represent them. Right? Oh yea I forgot, you guys try to pretend the GOP is the best party no matter what your economic conditions are. They claim their policies work for everyone when so clearly they don't. But keep up the lie. It seems to be working.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And yes. Democrats represent the poor.

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

 

[80zephyr]

I've always said that other than the vote, the rich completely own our country and government. The only thing we have is our vote. But only 40% of the voting population voted on Tuesday. You can bet that every rich person in America voted on Tuesday. You can bet that all the Republicans that voted in 2012 and 2008 showed up to vote in the 2010 and 2014 midterms. Clearly. Look at how Republicans win every midterm with low turnout but lose the general elections. You can even count 2000 and 2004 because those years were close enough for Bush to steal. But that's another conversation. Point is, basically the richest Americans are all voting every 2 years and the masses only vote every 4 years in the general elections. The blacks. The under 30's. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm done caring about you if you don't even care enough to show up and vote every 2 years. You don't think it makes a difference? It makes all the difference in the world. Stupid fucking Americans.

Hmm. Your premise seems to be that only Democrats suffer this fate. When the GOP ran two milquetoast candidates like McCain and Romney, millions of conservatives stayed home rather than vote. I was one of them. Had they ran a candidate with beliefs consistent with conservative values, there is a good chance that Obama would not have been elected.

So, as to your conjecture, you assume that people stayed home out of apathy. I disagree. People stayed home because they could not, in good conscience vote for the Democrats. And since there was no way in hell that they were going to vote for the GOP, they chose to stay home.

They voted all right. They just didn't care that it didn't show up in the vote totals that night.

Mark

 

[sealybobo]

And yes. Democrats represent the poor.

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

No different than the rich. The GOP give the rich stuff/gifts/tax breaks all the time. Do you think they dumb are stupid? No they are not. So the poor would be stupid to vote for the rich party, plain and simple.

If EVERYONE voted it would force both parties to move to the center instead of trying to appeal to their radical far right and left constituents.

I love it that the rich wage class warfare on us and then cry class warfare when we fight back.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always said that other than the vote, the rich completely own our country and government. The only thing we have is our vote. But only 40% of the voting population voted on Tuesday. You can bet that every rich person in America voted on Tuesday. You can bet that all the Republicans that voted in 2012 and 2008 showed up to vote in the 2010 and 2014 midterms. Clearly. Look at how Republicans win every midterm with low turnout but lose the general elections. You can even count 2000 and 2004 because those years were close enough for Bush to steal. But that's another conversation. Point is, basically the richest Americans are all voting every 2 years and the masses only vote every 4 years in the general elections. The blacks. The under 30's. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm done caring about you if you don't even care enough to show up and vote every 2 years. You don't think it makes a difference? It makes all the difference in the world. Stupid fucking Americans.

Hmm. Your premise seems to be that only Democrats suffer this fate. When the GOP ran two milquetoast candidates like McCain and Romney, millions of conservatives stayed home rather than vote. I was one of them. Had they ran a candidate with beliefs consistent with conservative values, there is a good chance that Obama would not have been elected.

So, as to your conjecture, you assume that people stayed home out of apathy. I disagree. People stayed home because they could not, in good conscience vote for the Democrats. And since there was no way in hell that they were going to vote for the GOP, they chose to stay home.

They voted all right. They just didn't care that it didn't show up in the vote totals that night.

Mark

You would have got less votes had you run a conservative so pipe down.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always said that other than the vote, the rich completely own our country and government. The only thing we have is our vote. But only 40% of the voting population voted on Tuesday. You can bet that every rich person in America voted on Tuesday. You can bet that all the Republicans that voted in 2012 and 2008 showed up to vote in the 2010 and 2014 midterms. Clearly. Look at how Republicans win every midterm with low turnout but lose the general elections. You can even count 2000 and 2004 because those years were close enough for Bush to steal. But that's another conversation. Point is, basically the richest Americans are all voting every 2 years and the masses only vote every 4 years in the general elections. The blacks. The under 30's. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm done caring about you if you don't even care enough to show up and vote every 2 years. You don't think it makes a difference? It makes all the difference in the world. Stupid fucking Americans.

Hmm. Your premise seems to be that only Democrats suffer this fate. When the GOP ran two milquetoast candidates like McCain and Romney, millions of conservatives stayed home rather than vote. I was one of them. Had they ran a candidate with beliefs consistent with conservative values, there is a good chance that Obama would not have been elected.

So, as to your conjecture, you assume that people stayed home out of apathy. I disagree. People stayed home because they could not, in good conscience vote for the Democrats. And since there was no way in hell that they were going to vote for the GOP, they chose to stay home.

They voted all right. They just didn't care that it didn't show up in the vote totals that night.

Mark

Correction. They could not vote for a Democrat OR a Republican. That means we are failing as a society.

But I guess you guys think we should be a top down type of country where the rich rule anyways because the poor are stupid so you probably like it this way I'm sure.

 

[sealybobo]

And yes. Democrats represent the poor.

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

You mean like bribing us with affordable gas, healthcare and a living wage? Stuff like that?

Democrats protect the poor and middle class from the rich/Republicans who think George Washington should have been King George.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

No different than the rich.

So, you admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds.
Thank you.

 

[80zephyr]

I've always said that other than the vote, the rich completely own our country and government. The only thing we have is our vote. But only 40% of the voting population voted on Tuesday. You can bet that every rich person in America voted on Tuesday. You can bet that all the Republicans that voted in 2012 and 2008 showed up to vote in the 2010 and 2014 midterms. Clearly. Look at how Republicans win every midterm with low turnout but lose the general elections. You can even count 2000 and 2004 because those years were close enough for Bush to steal. But that's another conversation. Point is, basically the richest Americans are all voting every 2 years and the masses only vote every 4 years in the general elections. The blacks. The under 30's. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm done caring about you if you don't even care enough to show up and vote every 2 years. You don't think it makes a difference? It makes all the difference in the world. Stupid fucking Americans.

Hmm. Your premise seems to be that only Democrats suffer this fate. When the GOP ran two milquetoast candidates like McCain and Romney, millions of conservatives stayed home rather than vote. I was one of them. Had they ran a candidate with beliefs consistent with conservative values, there is a good chance that Obama would not have been elected.

So, as to your conjecture, you assume that people stayed home out of apathy. I disagree. People stayed home because they could not, in good conscience vote for the Democrats. And since there was no way in hell that they were going to vote for the GOP, they chose to stay home.

They voted all right. They just didn't care that it didn't show up in the vote totals that night.

Mark

You would have got less votes had you run a conservative so pipe down.

Maybe. However, the Dems elected Obama, and he is a far leftie. How did they manage to do that when poll after poll shows more Americans identify as conservatives than liberal?

And how does a guy like Reagan win 49 states?

Mark

 

[kaz]

ranking is as clueless as you are. How are we not worse than Tea Partiers? They only want to limit government growth and taxes, we want to obliterate them. We are way, way worse to government whores like you than they are. They are barely more fiscally conservative than Republicans are. They would only cut your afternoon tea from your government dependency check, we would take the check.

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

I'm not going to disagree when you say "libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy"

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?

That doesn't agree with anything you said. The founding fathers were classic liberals, who are today called libertarians.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always said that other than the vote, the rich completely own our country and government. The only thing we have is our vote. But only 40% of the voting population voted on Tuesday. You can bet that every rich person in America voted on Tuesday. You can bet that all the Republicans that voted in 2012 and 2008 showed up to vote in the 2010 and 2014 midterms. Clearly. Look at how Republicans win every midterm with low turnout but lose the general elections. You can even count 2000 and 2004 because those years were close enough for Bush to steal. But that's another conversation. Point is, basically the richest Americans are all voting every 2 years and the masses only vote every 4 years in the general elections. The blacks. The under 30's. You only have yourselves to blame. I'm done caring about you if you don't even care enough to show up and vote every 2 years. You don't think it makes a difference? It makes all the difference in the world. Stupid fucking Americans.

Hmm. Your premise seems to be that only Democrats suffer this fate. When the GOP ran two milquetoast candidates like McCain and Romney, millions of conservatives stayed home rather than vote. I was one of them. Had they ran a candidate with beliefs consistent with conservative values, there is a good chance that Obama would not have been elected.

So, as to your conjecture, you assume that people stayed home out of apathy. I disagree. People stayed home because they could not, in good conscience vote for the Democrats. And since there was no way in hell that they were going to vote for the GOP, they chose to stay home.

They voted all right. They just didn't care that it didn't show up in the vote totals that night.

Mark

You would have got less votes had you run a conservative so pipe down.

Maybe. However, the Dems elected Obama, and he is a far leftie. How did they manage to do that when poll after poll shows more Americans identify as conservatives than liberal?

And how does a guy like Reagan win 49 states?

Mark

Reagan wouldn't even win the GOP primaries today the party has moved so far to the right and Obama is not far left anything. Please don't tell us what far left is if you are a rigth wing lunatic. Far left would have been single payer on healthcare, not the gift that the ACA was to the Healthcare Giant Insurance Providers.

And he would have spoken up more for labor and unions.

How is Obama far left when the economy is booming but the poor and middle class aren't sharing in the profits?

The only people who think Obama is far left are people who are extreme righties.

The people who got Obama elected were the moderates and undecideds. When you ask them if they are liberal or conservative a lot of them say they are conservative but then you ask them about things like choice, fair taxes, global warming and healthcare and you find they actually agree with our liberal positions more times than not.

They may agree with us on the issues, but they don't vote so they don't. I wish they would show up. I don't even care who they vote for. Vote for whoever you want. Just vote.

 

[sealybobo]

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

No different than the rich.

So, you admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds.
Thank you.

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks.

Vote for Jeb or one of them and the rich get all the breaks. And you can wait for it to trickle down on you. Don't hold your breath.

What's the difference? Depends on who you are. My dad paid $1500 so the rich could get tax breaks. That's why he votes Democratic. He's not dumb, you are. And the Koch brothers aren't dumb either. You are.

 

[sealybobo]

Don't vote at all and your taxes go up too. It is costing these stupid middle class and poor citizens who don't vote. They just don't realize it. They think "it doesn't matter".

And you intellectually dishonest republicans know its true.