People Who Don't Vote Are The Problem

[Iceweasel]

I work 12 hour days! You ok with me taking an hour or three when I'm on salary and actually only getting paid for 8? Minus 1 hour for lunch of course. Also sometimes after I close or punch out I'll stay and argue with you idiots on usmb after I'm off the clock.

I run the business. The owner just sits at home and makes whatever profit I get him.

As long as I hit my goals and get my commissions and bonus' the owner is happy.

Now I gotta ask, what do you need him for?

 

[Spare_change]

I don't remember libs complaining about this when the non voters handed the election to obama, twice.

Do you really believe conservatives sat it out in 2008 or 2012? They showed up. Its the young and poor who don't show up for midterms.

You lost those general elections because more people showed up. Republicans always lose when voter turn out is high. That is why they want to suppress and/or discourage voting. Like when they say it doesn't matter. They want you to believe that but they know it matters.

For example, the economy is doing great! How come that hasn't won over any conservatives? Because they don't care how good the economy does. In fact, for the economy to do better, we'd need to take some of the money the rich are sitting on and spread it out to the masses. In other words, tax the rich and corporations more.

Sounds to me like you're trying to pick apples in the cherry orchard.

You can't blame the 2014 loss on the failure of the young and poor to vote ... the numbers prove otherwise.

In 2008, Dems carried the young vote (18-29) by a 2-to-1 margin. In 2010, that margin decreased to 60%-38%, and held about the same in 2012.

In 2014, however, 21% of young voters actually cast their ballot (historically consistent for a midterm election). However, the Dems' advantage slipped to 53% - 38%.

In short, non-voters wasn't the problem ... the message was the problem. We even had some states where the overall youth vote went Republican. It's no accident that, in those states, Dems were tossed out summarily. (think states like Arkansas, Alaska, etc.).

There's no question that the voter base feels disaffected. They feel the government doesn't listen to them. The poor are upset that the current administration didn't give them more handouts. The young are upset that the current administration didn't give more handouts. When they didn't get what they want ... the bolted.

You can't buy loyalty ... you can only rent it for an election or two.

 

[Spare_change]

What good is voting if your elected official never carries out his duty? Kinda renders voting a moot point. I voted, though, for the lesser of two evils. I believe voting has a purpose, but also that not voting sends a message.

Agreed. Voting for evil is still wrong.

Winston Churchill once said the best argument against democracy was to spend 10 minutes with the average American voter.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about you .... or was he?

 

[sealybobo]

I don't remember libs complaining about this when the non voters handed the election to obama, twice.

Do you really believe conservatives sat it out in 2008 or 2012? They showed up. Its the young and poor who don't show up for midterms.

You lost those general elections because more people showed up. Republicans always lose when voter turn out is high. That is why they want to suppress and/or discourage voting. Like when they say it doesn't matter. They want you to believe that but they know it matters.

For example, the economy is doing great! How come that hasn't won over any conservatives? Because they don't care how good the economy does. In fact, for the economy to do better, we'd need to take some of the money the rich are sitting on and spread it out to the masses. In other words, tax the rich and corporations more.

Sounds to me like you're trying to pick apples in the cherry orchard.

You can't blame the 2014 loss on the failure of the young and poor to vote ... the numbers prove otherwise.

In 2008, Dems carried the young vote (18-29) by a 2-to-1 margin. In 2010, that margin decreased to 60%-38%, and held about the same in 2012.

In 2014, however, 21% of young voters actually cast their ballot (historically consistent for a midterm election). However, the Dems' advantage slipped to 53% - 38%.

In short, non-voters wasn't the problem ... the message was the problem. We even had some states where the overall youth vote went Republican. It's no accident that, in those states, Dems were tossed out summarily. (think states like Arkansas, Alaska, etc.).

There's no question that the voter base feels disaffected. They feel the government doesn't listen to them. The poor are upset that the current administration didn't give them more handouts. The young are upset that the current administration didn't give more handouts. When they didn't get what they want ... the bolted.

You can't buy loyalty ... you can only rent it for an election or two.

And that is why the rich vote GOP because they want hand outs and the Dems don't give them to them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

No different than the rich.

So, you admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds.
Thank you.

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks....

Blah blah blah.
You admitted that admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds
Says all that needs to be said.

 

[Judicial review]

By voting you endorse the system by which Obama came to power, and thus legitimized his governing over you. That's why you have no right to complain. I, however, who did not vote, have every right to complain about how the government you voters created affects me and others because I do not endorse the system in the first place, and never consented to be aggressed against.

You know the judicial branch is apart of this government that was designed to uphold the constitution which protects your freedoms and rights but has been ignored by the other branches and even though you are obviously in favor of peoples rights you sit back and bitch about your rights being taken away and the judicial branch being corrupted and yet you dont vote? Very hypocritical.

First of all, I disagree with Kevin that voting means you consent to be robbed. Kevin's argument is like saying if you try to run from or fight back to a mugger you consented to be robbed. By not fighting back, only he can criticize the people who robbed him. It's a stupid argument. However, your response was ridiculous. Government protects us from government? What a ridiculous argument. And obviously they don't.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Commerce clause legitimizes all government control over the economy not just trade between the States, that government can confiscate land for it's own benefit not just government's, that government can restrict our right to defend ourselves, that government can disregard our Constitutional rights in collecting taxes and in pursuing drugs and drug money, that government can require us to enter into a private contract with a health insurance company, that government can freely confiscate money from one citizen and give it to another, that government can regulate political speech going into elections, that people are property (Dred Scott), that there are no limits on Federal power (FDR), that government can engage in non-defensive wars, that government can discriminate against white people and men, none of which are in the Constitution. Then they made up that people have a right to an abortion and gays have a right to marriage. Whatever you think about those,they are not in the Constitution.

But it all comes back to the absurdity that you believe the Federal government will protect us from the Federal government. And obviously as I showed, they don't.

I never said that. I said the peoples right to vote protects us from government. It allows our government the ability to reset and the checks and balances prevent our government from going to far. Thats what makes our system of government unique. Everything obama has done can be reversed nd its looking pretty good that it will thanks to those citizens that voted.

You did say that. You said the supreme court protects our rights.. The Supreme Court is part of the Federal government. That is saying the Federal government is designed to protect our rights from the Federal government. Which is absurd. They do not and never have consistently done that. BTW, the Constitution didn't give judicial review to the Supreme Court. They gave it to themselves.

You're also wrong that voting is what protects our rights. Sure it's part of the equation, but it's actually the States that were designed to check the Federal governmen You may want to Google the actual meaning of the term "Federal."

The bill of rights are in the costitution and that is citizen rights not state rights. The supreme court job is to uphold those constithtional laws. The people elect the state reps that would hold the convention to hold the gov accountable. But you still need to vote. The power of the congress is to unseat judges that dont uhold the constitution. They do that.rarely so it does work but you got to vote for it. Bottom line is the peole through voting hold the government. Accountable. Not the states or feds. Dont mix up what im saying.

 

[Judicial review]

ranking is as clueless as you are. How are we not worse than Tea Partiers? They only want to limit government growth and taxes, we want to obliterate them. We are way, way worse to government whores like you than they are. They are barely more fiscally conservative than Republicans are. They would only cut your afternoon tea from your government dependency check, we would take the check.

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

I'm not going to disagree when you say "libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy"

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?

That doesn't agree with anything you said. The founding fathers were classic liberals, who are today called libertarians.

Not at all actually. They were a party not avaiable in Todays society.

 

[Iceweasel]

And that is why the rich vote GOP because they want hand outs and the Dems don't give them to them.

Many Democrats are very wealthy. You really are a moron.

 

[asterism]

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

How does an employee have so much free time on their hands?

I work 12 hour days! You ok with me taking an hour or three when I'm on salary and actually only getting paid for 8? Minus 1 hour for lunch of course. Also sometimes after I close or punch out I'll stay and argue with you idiots on usmb after I'm off the clock.

I run the business. The owner just sits at home and makes whatever profit I get him.

As long as I hit my goals and get my commissions and bonus' the owner is happy.

If you're on salary then you're getting paid for the job and the role you perform, not the hours you put in. Also, if you're the one making all the profit for the owner that "just sits at home," why don't you start your own business and compete with him?

Maybe he does a lot more than what you think. I work at home most of the time and about 10 years ago a hurricane knocked out the power at our office so a few of my employees came to work at my house (they were happy to do it, I was on a generator and had air conditioning). They were surprised to see all the stuff I do behind the scenes that makes it possible for them to do their jobs.

The guy in charge of our wholesale clients had no idea that most of the time he got a call for a bulk order it was because the client's boss and I had already talked. "Have your guy call my guy and work out the details."

 

[kaz]

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks.

Dude, the poor don't pay taxes, how can they get a "tax break?" The middle class barely pay taxes.

Yea, we got it soooo good and the rich got it soooo rough.

Maybe you should work harder. As another tip as an employer, the biggest difference between those I give raises to and those I don't is when people care about their job. I"d start with yourself.

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

I don't think "employees" are lazy and overpaid. I think you are. That's why you have your hat out.

 

[kaz]

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks.

Dude, the poor don't pay taxes, how can they get a "tax break?" The middle class barely pay taxes.

Yea, we got it soooo good and the rich got it soooo rough.

Maybe you should work harder. As another tip as an employer, the biggest difference between those I give raises to and those I don't is when people care about their job. I"d start with yourself.

What will that do? The rich took over our government. They changed things so that instead of them having 75% of all the money and us 25%, they now have 90% of the money.

So you want me to work harder so I can try to gobble up the 10% of the money that is available to me? I think you'd have a better chance getting me to work harder if you put things back the way they should be where there is a fair amount of $ out there for me to get. Right now the rich are sitting on 90% of it.

See asshole idiots like you try to make this personal when this is not my problem, it's a problem we have as a nation. Its not just me that's not doing as well as I did in the 90's, it's all of us. So you can tell us to wrk harder but all that does is expose you for the ignorant douche bag that you are.

Yes, comrade, blah blah, the rich, blah blah corporations, blah blah capitalism. Marxism has worked so much better, I see why you want that.

 

[kaz]

The bill of rights are in the costitution and that is citizen rights not state rights.

First of all, that is a strawman. Bat as to your point, what does the 10th amendment say?

Also, States are far more answerable to the people than the Federal government is. You are presenting as a mutual choice that which isn't.

[The supreme court job is to uphold those constithtional laws. The people elect the state reps that would hold the convention to hold the gov accountable. But you still need to vote. The power of the congress is to unseat judges that dont uhold the constitution. They do that.rarely so it does work but you got to vote for it. Bottom line is the peole through voting hold the government. Accountable. Not the states or feds. Dont mix up what im saying.

Now you are begging the question.

 

[kaz]

ranking is as clueless as you are. How are we not worse than Tea Partiers? They only want to limit government growth and taxes, we want to obliterate them. We are way, way worse to government whores like you than they are. They are barely more fiscally conservative than Republicans are. They would only cut your afternoon tea from your government dependency check, we would take the check.

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

I'm not going to disagree when you say "libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy"

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?

That doesn't agree with anything you said. The founding fathers were classic liberals, who are today called libertarians.

Not at all actually. They were a party not avaiable in Todays society.

No meat to back that up. You can't. They were very close to small government libertarians, particularly at the Federal level. Since you said they were "not at all actually," a plethora of examples of differences between libertarians and the founding fathers should be at your fingertips. Good luck with that.

 

[sealybobo]

Represent the poor?
Democrats bribe the poor with public funds - vote for us and we'll give you stuff.

No different than the rich.

So, you admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds.
Thank you.

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks....

Blah blah blah.
You admitted that admit that the Dems do not represent the poor, they bribe them with public funds
Says all that needs to be said.

No there is much more to be said. The fact that the rich do/want the same thing as the poor want. A little more share of the profits.

Bottom line asshole is this. We use to have 25% of the money and they had 75%. They bribed/took over our government and now they have it so they get 90% and you get 10%. And you defend them? Are you dumb?

 

[Judicial review]

I wish you Libertarians had the $ to go around the world and see how the best countries are doing it. No one is doing it your way. Your way has never been done before so you can't even say it will work. In fact we think it would be HORRIBLE. So does the rest of your party. In fact you have less voters than the tea party so what does that say about you? You are a fringe group is what it says.

Oh, and what works in Switzerland won't work here either. They don't pay a lot in taxes but they don't have the masses we have to deal with.

I could be a libertarian if we didn't have the masses to deal with. I think Lbertarians don't understand the suffering their policies would cause. No social safety nets.

Look around and see how every other country has a government that invests in it's people. They invest in infrastructure. And VERY other country has universal healthcare. Would the new Libertarian America? No it would not. So I don't see how you guys would deal with that.

Oh yea, you would let the free market decide. NEXT!

Democracy - Not The Free Market - Will Save America s Middle Class

LOL, right, your Marxist comrades are doing so well economically. Actually the greatest experiment in libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy. That experiment was the USA. It is your socialism that is undoing that.

I'm not going to disagree when you say "libertarianism led to 5% of the world's population dominating the global economy"

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?

That doesn't agree with anything you said. The founding fathers were classic liberals, who are today called libertarians.

Not at all actually. They were a party not avaiable in Todays society.

No meat to back that up. You can't. They were very close to small government libertarians, particularly at the Federal level. Since you said they were "not at all actually," a plethora of examples of differences between libertarians and the founding fathers should be at your fingertips. Good luck with that.

Theres simularities with them and all the partys. My point was not one party today is a match of them back then and to suggest otherwise is to suggest your high on drugs dreaming.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

How does an employee have so much free time on their hands?

I work 12 hour days! You ok with me taking an hour or three when I'm on salary and actually only getting paid for 8? Minus 1 hour for lunch of course. Also sometimes after I close or punch out I'll stay and argue with you idiots on usmb after I'm off the clock.

I run the business. The owner just sits at home and makes whatever profit I get him.

As long as I hit my goals and get my commissions and bonus' the owner is happy.

If you're on salary then you're getting paid for the job and the role you perform, not the hours you put in. Also, if you're the one making all the profit for the owner that "just sits at home," why don't you start your own business and compete with him?

Maybe he does a lot more than what you think. I work at home most of the time and about 10 years ago a hurricane knocked out the power at our office so a few of my employees came to work at my house (they were happy to do it, I was on a generator and had air conditioning). They were surprised to see all the stuff I do behind the scenes that makes it possible for them to do their jobs.

The guy in charge of our wholesale clients had no idea that most of the time he got a call for a bulk order it was because the client's boss and I had already talked. "Have your guy call my guy and work out the details."

I'm just busting balls. I know he does a lot AND he's taking all the risk so I feel ya.

 

[sealybobo]

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks.

Dude, the poor don't pay taxes, how can they get a "tax break?" The middle class barely pay taxes.

Yea, we got it soooo good and the rich got it soooo rough.

Maybe you should work harder. As another tip as an employer, the biggest difference between those I give raises to and those I don't is when people care about their job. I"d start with yourself.

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

I don't think "employees" are lazy and overpaid. I think you are. That's why you have your hat out.

Whatever broke ass. House slave.

 

[Judicial review]

Dude, the poor don't pay taxes, how can they get a "tax break?" The middle class barely pay taxes.

Yea, we got it soooo good and the rich got it soooo rough.

Maybe you should work harder. As another tip as an employer, the biggest difference between those I give raises to and those I don't is when people care about their job. I"d start with yourself.

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

I don't think "employees" are lazy and overpaid. I think you are. That's why you have your hat out.

Whatever broke ass. House slave.

Kaz is starting to piss me off. Big mistke..

 

[sealybobo]

I work 12 hour days! You ok with me taking an hour or three when I'm on salary and actually only getting paid for 8? Minus 1 hour for lunch of course. Also sometimes after I close or punch out I'll stay and argue with you idiots on usmb after I'm off the clock.

I run the business. The owner just sits at home and makes whatever profit I get him.

As long as I hit my goals and get my commissions and bonus' the owner is happy.

Now I gotta ask, what do you need him for?

He's going to see when I leave that he's never going to find anyone like me. Everyone says it. Everyone who has left the company says he's going to be sorry the day I leave. But he'll take that chance. He'll find someone else. Maybe they'll be as good as me. Maybe they'll stick around. I doubt it. No one else has.

And I have just recently grown fed up with him and his business. I was trying very hard to make it grow but because he doesn't pay his employees enough, they don't stick around long enough.

He's not a very bright guy. He's very talented at doing what we sell, but running the business not so much. It is amazing he has 3 locations. And when I started here, he had a really bad rep in the community. I had to mend so many broken fences.

Anyways, his business model doesn't call for paying people what they are worth. He starts you off really low, makes promises, raises the minimums and quotas so you'll never make as much as you were expecting.

I know. If I don't like it I can find another job. I am currently in the process.

So being cheap is costing him. IMO anyways. I think if he paid more he'd make more. But his business model is to pay as little as he has to and if people leave there are plenty of people looking for work.

This is why the rich love it that they trashed the economy on purpose, sent all those jobs overseas, hired all those illegals. They wanted to flood the job market with people needing work. That lowers wages and you have your pick of who you want to hire. So the only way to fix the economy is to insist that all those manufacturing companies that went overseas come back and pay a fair wage. If they don't we will tax/tariff the fuck out of them and then their competitors who are Made in America will take over their market share if they refuse.

 

[sealybobo]

Vote for Hillary and Democrats and the Middle Class and Poor get the tax breaks.

Dude, the poor don't pay taxes, how can they get a "tax break?" The middle class barely pay taxes.

Yea, we got it soooo good and the rich got it soooo rough.

Maybe you should work harder. As another tip as an employer, the biggest difference between those I give raises to and those I don't is when people care about their job. I"d start with yourself.

Oh you are an employer not an employee? No wonder you think the way you do. I understand.

We're employees. So of course we aren't going to agree with you when you say we are all lazy and overpaid. If you ask us, you are.

I don't think "employees" are lazy and overpaid. I think you are. That's why you have your hat out.

Sure you guys think "in general" that American employees are lazy and overpaid. First you said it about union workers. Then you said it about government workers. Now you are saying it about me and I am neither.

You guys have been saying it about us for over a decade now. Remember you said it back when McCain and Romney were saying that illegals work harder and are only doing jobs Americans won't do? We will do the work. We just want a fair wage.

So don't try to say you don't think employees are lazy and overpaid. Clearly that is your parties position.