Planned Parenthood caught trafficking in human body parts

[sakinago]

An expecting mother in the second trimester has only a 4% percent chance of a miscarriage. And you said it was not ok to choose to take Sherri off of life support. So I guess you are changing your opinion. Since you are changing opinions, if the doctor told the husband of Sherri that she was going to have a 4% of not making it, but should fully recover while remaining on life support, is it ok for the husband to say take her off.

Sadly, you're too slow to keep up. Earlier, you said there was an 80% chance of a 27 week old embryo of being born alive. Now you claim it's 96%. It's not. Where do you pull this nonsense from? And where have I changed my position? I've always said the people involved should get to choose for themselves.

27 week PREMIE has about an 80% of making it. Now numbers on miscarriages and such are difficult to give just one number, bc of factors like has the mother had a miscarriage before and etc.

But if you have different numbers then by all means post them and apply them to Sherri Tiavo, see if it's ok to kill her off. We can even do a poll on usmb see who thinks it's ok to for the husband to let her starve to death. So far all you have done is try to split hairs on the numbers in this scenario, claim they're crazy, but not post why they're crazy. So be my guest. At least winter born could actually make intelligent arguments, I think I poked holes in those arguments, but they were based on intelligence, not splitting hairs on numbers without rebuttals

You can't keep your story straight. First you say a 27 week old embryo has a 98% chance .... then you say 80% ... then you say 96% ... then you say 80% again.

Let me know when you agree with yourself on a single number and then we can resume this......

It's because as I've said many times the numbers don't really matter, it's an ethics question, not a math problem.

No, it's because you don't have a clue on what you're speaking about.

Oh, and get this ... you don't define ethics.

Haha I never said I did, and please please post your own numbers. You want to refute and argue so much, well then tell me otherwise.

And can you confirm your belief in the scenario that the husband should be allowed to kill Sherri.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

 

[sakinago]

It's the babykilling criminals who keep changing the subject. You don't like to deal with the criminal acts of pp, so you talk about how important research is. Then you pretend we're the ones changing the subject...and you forget what the real discussion was about. What yards.

Here is what the discussion is about for you: "the babykilling criminals." You do not care about the lawful use of fetal tissue in research. That is simply a something assholes like you can use to try to further restrict the reproductive rights of women. You want to defund PP, not because of abortion only; you want to defund the 90 % of what they do that has nothing to do with abortion. You don't want women to have access to birth control; you don't want them to have access to the other health care services PP provides. If you wanted that to remain, you would not call for defunding them. After all, not a dime of the government funding they receive is used in connection with abortion. So, you want to defund prenatal care; you want to defund birth control; you want to defund pap smears and mammograms; you want to defund anything that PP does to help women because they assist women in obtaining the perfectly legal medical procedure you want to ban.

They don't count things like medication, counseling, etc, that goes along with much of abortion into that number. You can talk about the legality of donating/selling tissue but it's a lot like debating what to do with money after as bank has been robbed. Don't rob the bank

 

[paddymurphy]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

 

[paddymurphy]

It's the babykilling criminals who keep changing the subject. You don't like to deal with the criminal acts of pp, so you talk about how important research is. Then you pretend we're the ones changing the subject...and you forget what the real discussion was about. What yards.

Here is what the discussion is about for you: "the babykilling criminals." You do not care about the lawful use of fetal tissue in research. That is simply a something assholes like you can use to try to further restrict the reproductive rights of women. You want to defund PP, not because of abortion only; you want to defund the 90 % of what they do that has nothing to do with abortion. You don't want women to have access to birth control; you don't want them to have access to the other health care services PP provides. If you wanted that to remain, you would not call for defunding them. After all, not a dime of the government funding they receive is used in connection with abortion. So, you want to defund prenatal care; you want to defund birth control; you want to defund pap smears and mammograms; you want to defund anything that PP does to help women because they assist women in obtaining the perfectly legal medical procedure you want to ban.

They don't count things like medication, counseling, etc, that goes along with much of abortion into that number. You can talk about the legality of donating/selling tissue but it's a lot like debating what to do with money after as bank has been robbed. Don't rob the bank

Actually, they do. Any expense associated with providing an abortion, medication, equipment, etc. is part of that expense. Counseling is not because counseling is providing information about all of the options to a woman, including taking the pregnancy to term and keeping or putting the baby up for adoption. But, you are right. It is hypocritical of folks like kosher girl to pretend that their concern is over the improper use of the tissue when what they are really concerned with is the abortion itself. Apparently, lying to achieve their ultimate objective of denying women access to abortion or other reproductive related services like birth control is perfectly OK.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

You keep going back to research but dodging an intelligent conversation on the subject

You have still not responded with what types of tissue PP is harvesting, is it "embryonic" or "tissue specific" ...........

So you keep eluding to research tell us, what exactly the have to have again from these abortions to do research??

Don't quote some article that says Ben Carson does fetal cell research, he is not here for that conversation, we are.

Those older vaccines and all of the older research have alternatives that do not require fetal tissue, so where does your argument go now??

You might want to research "induced pluripotent stem cells" if you would like to appear even slightly intelligent in our next conversation.

 

[paddymurphy]

You keep going back to research but dodging an intelligent conversation on the subject

You have still not responded with what types of tissue PP is harvesting, is it "embryonic" or "tissue specific" ...........

So you keep eluding to research tell us what exactly the have to have again for these abortions to do research??

Don't quote some article that says Ben Carson does fetal cell research, he is not here for that conversation, we are.

Those older vaccines and all of the older research have alternatives that do not require fetal tissue, so where does your argument go now??

You might want to research "induced pluripotent stem cells" if you would like to appear even slightly intelligent in our next conversation.

You and I have not had a conversation. You have not asked me a single fucking question so stop pretending that I have not responded. And I did not "elude" to anything. (Buy a dictionary, dumbass). They use the tissue for research. That is a fact. What do you think the tissue is being used for if not research? Why do research labs ask for it if they are not using it in research? Explain to us your entire theory on why tissue from a fetus would be preserved and shipped to researchers if they are not using it for medical research?

Here is the abstract from Dr. Carson's research paper:
"The histogenesis of colloid cysts (CCs) of the third ventricle has been a subject of controversy. We examined, using immunohistochemical techniques, four CCs for the presence of cytokeratins (CKs), glutathione S-transferase isoenzymes (GST-pi, GST-mu), and glial fibrillary acidic protein. Antibodies to both low molecular weight CKs (anti-CK8) and to a mixture of CKs (AE1/AE3) were used. For comparison, normal fetal and adult choroid plexus, ependyma, and nasal mucosa were also examined. The epithelium lining all four CCs showed positive immunostaining for the CKs and GST-pi but not for GST-mu or glial fibrillary acidic protein. Fetal and adult nasal mucosa showed a pattern of immunohistochemical staining almost identical to that of CCs. In contrast, fetal and adult choroid plexus tissue showed positive immunostaining for GST-pi and low molecular weight CKs but not for the CK mixture (AE1/AE3). Fetal and adult ependyma were negative for both CKs and GST-pi. These results suggest that CCs differentiate along nonneural lines distinct from the neuroepithelial differentiation of the choroid plexus and ependyma."

As for getting into a debate about the specific research being done, how it is beneficial and what is being researched, neither you nor I have any ability to discuss that intelligently, especially you. So, I rely on the experts in this field and they obviously think it is important:
"University laboratories that buy such cells strongly defend their research, saying tissue that would otherwise be thrown out has played a vital role in lifesaving medical advances and holds great potential for further breakthroughs.

Fetal cells are considered ideal because they divide rapidly, adapt to new environments easily and are less susceptible to rejection than adult cells when transplanted.

"If researchers are unable to work with fetal tissue, there is a huge list of diseases for which researchers would move much more slowly, rather than quickly, to find their cause and how they can be cured," Stanford University spokeswoman Lisa Lapin said in an email.

From 2011 through 2014 alone, 97 research institutions — mostly universities and hospitals — received a total of $280 million in federal grants for fetal tissue research from the National Institutes of Health. A few institutions have consistently gotten large shares of that money, including Yale, the University of California and Massachusetts General Hospital, which is affiliated with Harvard.

The U.S. government prohibits the sale of fetal tissue for profit and requires separation between researchers and the women who donate fetuses. Some schools go further, requiring written consent from donors.

Many major universities declined to make scientists available for interviews about their fetal tissue work, saying they fear for the researchers' safety because the issue is so highly charged. The Planned Parenthood uproar led to a failed attempt by Republicans to strip the organization of federal funding.

Researchers use fetal tissue to understand cell biology and human development. Others use it to look for treatments for AIDS. Research on spinal cord injuries and eyesight-robbing macular degeneration involves transplanting fetal cells into patients. European researchers recently began putting fetal tissue into patients' brains to try to treat Parkinson's, a strategy that previously had mixed results.

Some scientists are looking for alternatives to fetal tissue, such as using adult cells that have been "reprogrammed" to their earlier forms. But those techniques are still being refined, and some fields are likely to remain reliant on fetal tissue, such as the study of fetal development.

Vaccines have been one of the chief public benefits of fetal tissue research. Vaccines for hepatitis A, German measles, chickenpox and rabies, for example, were developed using cell lines grown from tissue from two elective abortions, one in England and one in Sweden, that were performed in the 1960s.

German measles, also known as rubella, "caused 5,000 spontaneous abortions a year prior to the vaccine," said Dr. Paul Offit, an infectious-disease specialist at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. "We wouldn't have saved all those lives had it not been for those cells."

Fetal tissue was "absolutely critical" to the development of a potential Ebola vaccine that has shown promise, said Dr. Carrie Wolinetz, an associate director at NIH, which last year handed out $76 million for work involving fetal tissue, or 0.2 percent of the agency's research budget.

Scientists are also using fetal tissue to try to identify substances in adults that could be early warning signs of cancer, said Dr. Akhilesh Pandey, a molecular biologist at Johns Hopkins University.

Experts at MIT and other research centers use fetal tissue to implant the human immune system into mice, as a way to study diseases without employing people as test subjects. They add tumors to study the immune system's response, then test cancer treatments out on the mice.

"This eventually will provide a benefit to society," said Jianzhu Chen, an immunology professor and researcher at MIT.

At Stanford, fetal tissue has been used to study Huntington's disease, "bubble boy disease" and juvenile diabetes. Fetal brain calls are now being used there in research on autism and schizophrenia.

After the release of the undercover videos, Colorado State University conducted an ethics review and suspended its dealings with one vendor. But it is pressing ahead with its HIV research with fetal tissue.

"Our position is this research has such tremendous value in driving discoveries that could be done no other way," said Alan Rudolph, university vice president of research."
Scientists say fetal tissue essential for medical research Boston Herald

What you think about it matters to no one but you.

 

[paddymurphy]

From the good doctor's research.

 

[paddymurphy]

It's the babykilling criminals who keep changing the subject. You don't like to deal with the criminal acts of pp, so you talk about how important research is. Then you pretend we're the ones changing the subject...and you forget what the real discussion was about. What yards.

Here is what the discussion is about for you: "the babykilling criminals." You do not care about the lawful use of fetal tissue in research. That is simply a something assholes like you can use to try to further restrict the reproductive rights of women. You want to defund PP, not because of abortion only; you want to defund the 90 % of what they do that has nothing to do with abortion. You don't want women to have access to birth control; you don't want them to have access to the other health care services PP provides. If you wanted that to remain, you would not call for defunding them. After all, not a dime of the government funding they receive is used in connection with abortion. So, you want to defund prenatal care; you want to defund birth control; you want to defund pap smears and mammograms; you want to defund anything that PP does to help women because they assist women in obtaining the perfectly legal medical procedure you want to ban.

They don't count things like medication, counseling, etc, that goes along with much of abortion into that number. You can talk about the legality of donating/selling tissue but it's a lot like debating what to do with money after as bank has been robbed. Don't rob the bank

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

What you think about it matters to no one but you.

So even after being asked direct question and not to quote some article you are clueless about you did just exactly that with an ad hominem for good measure.

It is apparent an intelligent conversation is beyond your abilities.

No it is not just me but those who read this thread in silence.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

Yes, you endanger women when you use a more risky procedure for them to procure profits for you. And yes you exploit them when you make $$$$$ off their misery and pain...which you cause. Which is the conflict of interest.

Disgusting. Like you.

 

[paddymurphy]

What you think about it matters to no one but you.

So even after being asked direct question and not to quote some article you are clueless about you did just exactly that with an ad hominem for good measure.

It is apparent an intelligent conversation is beyond your abilities.

No it is not just me but those who read this thread in silence.

I provided you with the actual abstract from the article that Ben Carson wrote. And, you lying prick, I answered your question. Neither your nor I are qualified to discuss the scientific basis of the research. So, I provided you with what those who are experts have said about the necessity of the research. Can you offer anything from an expert in this field that disputes the necessity of such research? No? Then shut the fuck up.

 

[paddymurphy]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

Yes, you endanger women when you use a more risky procedure for them to procure profits for you. And yes you exploit them when you make $$$$$ off their misery and pain...which you cause. Which is the conflict of interest.

Disgusting. Like you.

How do I profit from this? I practice law. I have nothing to do with these activities. But, I guess that is typical from assholes like you. Make baseless attacks, lie, whine. Not a single woman has come forward and supported your lies about coercion or abuse. Not one. You are fucking liar.

 

[koshergrl]

What you think about it matters to no one but you.

So even after being asked direct question and not to quote some article you are clueless about you did just exactly that with an ad hominem for good measure.

It is apparent an intelligent conversation is beyond your abilities.

No it is not just me but those who read this thread in silence.

I provided you with the actual abstract from the article that Ben Carson wrote. And, you lying prick, I answered your question. Neither your nor I are qualified to discuss the scientific basis of the research. So, I provided you with what those who are experts have said about the necessity of the research. Can you offer anything from an expert in this field that disputes the necessity of such research? No? Then shut the fuck up.

Yes, you do that. Just accept blindly what people you idolize tell you.

And why do you idolize them? You idolize them because they use the product of abortion and dead babies' flesh. You think that makes them special.

Yuck.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

Yes, you endanger women when you use a more risky procedure for them to procure profits for you. And yes you exploit them when you make $$$$$ off their misery and pain...which you cause. Which is the conflict of interest.

Disgusting. Like you.

How do I profit from this? I practice law. I have nothing to do with these activities. But, I guess that is typical from assholes like you. Make baseless attacks, lie, whine. Not a single woman has come forward and supported your lies about coercion or abuse. Not one. You are fucking liar.

The "you" was a rhetorical "you", moron.

 

[paddymurphy]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

Yes, you endanger women when you use a more risky procedure for them to procure profits for you. And yes you exploit them when you make $$$$$ off their misery and pain...which you cause. Which is the conflict of interest.

Disgusting. Like you.

How do I profit from this? I practice law. I have nothing to do with these activities. But, I guess that is typical from assholes like you. Make baseless attacks, lie, whine. Not a single woman has come forward and supported your lies about coercion or abuse. Not one. You are fucking liar.

The "you" was a rhetorical "you", moron.

Apparently, you do not understand the word "rhetorical."

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

I see you are still being nasty and seeing how you keep dodging my specific medical questions and using ad hominems, I contend not only are you not intelligent enough to discuss it but have no actual idea's as to what I am qualified to discuss.

So as a little ignorant law clerk you really think you have a MENSA level IQ, I'm guessing by the ducking, dodging and vehement outburst you don't.

 

[paddymurphy]

What you think about it matters to no one but you.

So even after being asked direct question and not to quote some article you are clueless about you did just exactly that with an ad hominem for good measure.

It is apparent an intelligent conversation is beyond your abilities.

No it is not just me but those who read this thread in silence.

I provided you with the actual abstract from the article that Ben Carson wrote. And, you lying prick, I answered your question. Neither your nor I are qualified to discuss the scientific basis of the research. So, I provided you with what those who are experts have said about the necessity of the research. Can you offer anything from an expert in this field that disputes the necessity of such research? No? Then shut the fuck up.

Yes, you do that. Just accept blindly what people you idolize tell you.

And why do you idolize them? You idolize them because they use the product of abortion and dead babies' flesh. You think that makes them special.

Yuck.

People I idolize. There are several doctors quote in there who do the research. Dr. Carson did the research and defends it. You know nothing about the research. You don't care how much it can help. You don't care about women being victimized. Any lie you can tell to achieve your goal of banning reproductive freedom for women is ok.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, paddy again tries to drag research in. Again....it's illegal to sell body parts. It's illegal to alter procedures for profit. Has nothing to do with research. We're just talking about the law and endangering and exploiting women....which is something baby killers enjoy.

Yes it is illegal. No, they did not break the law. And no, they did not "endanger" women nor did they exploit them. Pricks like you are the ones trying to endanger women; trying to force them back into the clutches of the Kermit Gosnell's of the world who will perform illegal abortions if the price is right.

Yes, you endanger women when you use a more risky procedure for them to procure profits for you. And yes you exploit them when you make $$$$$ off their misery and pain...which you cause. Which is the conflict of interest.

Disgusting. Like you.

How do I profit from this? I practice law. I have nothing to do with these activities. But, I guess that is typical from assholes like you. Make baseless attacks, lie, whine. Not a single woman has come forward and supported your lies about coercion or abuse. Not one. You are fucking liar.

The "you" was a rhetorical "you", moron.

Apparently, you do not understand the word "rhetorical."

Apparently you don't, lol. Thank you, that made my day.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

Catchy phrase, "reproductive freedom" in an abortion thread ...............

Talk about irony ...................